New 4.2 or new 4.0?

[olymunch]

Ok it looks like koller is no longer in business, I'll check out hesco, I'm def more into the mpi over tbi.
It looks like there's two kits, one is a mopar mpi kit for almost 2.5k and the other is a jeep DFI MPI kit for about 2k.
I can't find any real difference, is there?

[captspillane]

The DFI kit is for newer cars like TJ owners who want to replace damaged parts with aftermarket parts. It has software that makes it more flexible and able to work on any year engine. You should stick with their usual kit because its designed for people like us starting with an older engine. The only factor I can think of that you need to know before ordering their stuff is Vbelt versus serpantine belt.

I would always select the manual transmission kit to keep the "park" safety feature deactivated, then buy the automatic cable seperate if you have an automatic. You are keeping your T5 five speed, correct?

Keep in mind that the complete kit includes a brand new never used intake manifold. Even if you want the simplicity of their wiring harness and if you use most of their kit, you should at least buy a used intake manifold. I think Baskinator will be swapping his out for a grand cost of about 800 dollars in used and new parts. Its up to you how much effort you want to put forth into saving the two grand for Hesco's off the shelf solution. We can help you as much as you need.

[olymunch]

Ok but if I go with the 4.0 engine woldnt the cheaper mpi upgrade be what I want?

[captspillane]

The DFI kit comes with software and other complexity. I think the difference in price is because it doesn't come with all the stuff that the regular kit does. That would make sense if its intended for a newer Jeep that already had a fuel injection installed. I think it will cost more and be more complex in the end. That's the conclusion I reached by reading the Hesco descriptions.

[olymunch]

Ya that makes sense, I couldn't make heads or tails of it.
Decisions decisions. I need to talk to my mechanic to see what he's most capable at, if he'd upgrade the 4.2 to a 4.0 with a better cam for a decent price then I'll do that. Maybe he'll have some experience with the mpi swap on the cheap? if not then its the 2.5k swap or I can piece it together at junk yards. I KNOW there's tons of info about that on here. If anyone knows specifically tho where that "piece it together" list is that'd be great!
This has been VERY educational!

[captspillane]

I disagree. I'm not a mechanic either. I am a carpenter's son who started off working on my AMC Eagle when I was 15. I had no place to work, no tools, no knowledgeable mentor, and didn't even know why my SX4 had three pedals. I've never had any degree of formal training. I know as much as I do because I scrutinize the available information. In his place I would print out this discussion and read it several times with a high-ligher if necessary. Your home depot experience is much more overwhelming than this, because the beauty of a forum is that you can read a paragraph a dozen times over while typing terms into wikipedia. I do not agree that we said too much to him and I do not agree that any post was too complex for someone of any age or background to understand. I would personally appreciate as much information as possible before I spent 2500 dollars. I also firmly believe that ignorance and frustration is the reason so many Eagles end up in the scrapyard.

He clearly stated that he has a well running Eagle that he wants to make more capable. If he was really over his head, he would stick with the tried and true. He also saw "2150," didn't recognize it, and asked what it was. That means that he was ignorant of a considerably cheaper option than the MPI. To know what you don't know is a very powerful thing.

[shaggimo]

I didn't see this mentioned yet, so I'll throw it out there.
I get you want a new engine....Check.
You'd rather fuel injection for tinker free operation....check.
Why not pick up a a 91-95 jeep cherokee for the the f/i system? You can pick up a rotter for little more than scrap price, as long as it runs well, pull the firewall harness, and body harness, and transplant it all into your eagle, you will then have all the 4.0 accessories too, IE: generator, starter, steering pump, pulleys, ect, ect, ect. Is it a bit of work? Yeah, but you'll have almost everything (minus the crank sensor notch in your bellhousing) to do the swap (You could solve that by either putting it there, or using a hesco type). When you are all said and done, scrap the cherokee and make some of your money back.

[doc65]

My plan exactly, I picked up a 92 Cherokee with a manual trans last weekend.  The odometer reads 400+ K, yes that's right 400+ but was told that the engine had been rebuild & the compressions are all 135 +-2 or so, and it starts right up, so I believe it's true.  The trans may be another matter, but we'll see... it needs a balancer as that was why it was sold cheap, but everything else is there.  Not trying to thread-jack, just validating that as an option.

Doc

[captspillane]

The coolest thing about swapping over an entire XJ drivetrain is that you can tell your mechanic "its a 1992 Jeep Cherokee." They are very familiar with those. Alot of mechanics won't work on a car once it becomes too unique and a mixture of too many different Jeep parts. Buying a 4.0 long block, a few junkyard parts for the serpantine belt, and Hesco's kit will still make a 1992 motor that they will recognize.

The speedometer adaptor you need costs 122 dollars at the Hesco site. It costs about 30 dollars everywhere else. I'm using a 1991 YJ adaptor. Those had a 4.0 and a mechanical speedo.

[txjeeptx]

I'm trying to not get too technical without leaving out info this guy or his mechanic should have.

The speedometer adaptor you need costs 122 dollars at the Hesco site. It costs about 30 dollars everywhere else. I'm using a 1991 YJ adaptor. Those had a 4.0 and a mechanical speedo.

Yeah, there are definitely a couple of items that the "full-price complete HESCO kit" has in it that you could get elsewhere cheaper. I bought my MPI kit directly from HESCO without the intake manifold. I probably should have had them also remove the speed sensor and the fuel lines that come with the kit. I also could have just used a Jeep CPS, since I'm using an external slave AX-15 Jeep bellhousing and correct Jeep 4.o flywheel for my particular drivetrain swap. I didn't feel like peeling the CPS sensor wiring out of the HESCO harness location to return it to the stock Jeep location on the bellhousing, so I went with the HESCO crank sensor pulley, which needed a spacer to allow me to install it onto the nose of my 4.2 crank. HESCO now offers this spacer, but I turned one for mine on my lathe.

Our Eagles have the fuel line leading to the fuel pump located on the passenger side of the car, so the HESCO fuel line kit, which is designed for Jeep CJ/YJ, is worthless on my Eagle. I have had to bend a new fuel line that crosses over under the engine above the front crossmember and use some corner-parts-store fuel rail disconnects. I'm not finished with the new fuel line, since I need to make a tubing bead tool or find someone who has one, since stainless tubing doesn't flare with the usual tubing flare kit available. Its too hard. For the return line, theirs runs way past where it needs to go to connect to the stock Eagle fuel return, so neither line from the HESCO kit seems necessary for an Eagle. Coulda saved some money there and bought the tubing bead tool, which is around $130. I'm making my own tool, now.

Back on topic, I figure you might appreciate a pic of the engine bay on my unfinished Eagle project with the HESCO MPI stuff installed.

For all you gearheads, the ridicuLIST of parts I threw together : My block is the original 4.2L, bored 0.020 over, with a forgotten brand/spec of performance cam for the 4.o, a 4.o head from Clearwater Cylinder Heads(just their standard head, they now offer a performance upgrade with larger stainless valves), and I ported and polished the head myself, intake and exhaust are port-matched. The cam and lifters are for a 4.o-application, but I recall having to measure for custom pushrods, since I installed a set of Yellaterra roller rockers, and the valvespring seats were machined for bigger springs, er somethin like that(built over 3 years ago and still haven't gotten it back together to run, so I've forgotten some stuff). The intake is a '99 and up Jeep 4.o "equal length runner" manifold with FAST(not Accel, like I had listed earlier) 21lb/hr injectors, a 60mm throttle body, and HESCO's adjustable fuel pressure regulator, while the exhaust is a used/repaired/modified Renix non-HO 4.o log-style manifold with the EGR port removed and the exit turned away from interfering with the front axle and its associated brackets. The fuel rail is for a '95 4.o, since the one that came with the '99 intake didn't have a fuel return line, and I didn't buy HESCO's returnless fuel pump setup. Since I decided to use the '99 intake, I went with a mid-'90s 4.o serpentine setup medley, starting with a Be-Cool XJ water pump, XJ power steering pump, XJ AC pump and brackets from a 4-cylinder XJ to eliminate the extra idler that the XJ 4.o brackets have, and a Nippondenso/Chrysler non-internally-regulated alternator. I could have added the wiring to the HESCO/MOPAR computer to control the alternator, but found it much easier to just use a mid 70's Dodge voltage regulator to control it. In order to use the mid-90s XJ serpentine setup, I had to use the correct Chrysler-Jeep timing cover, not my stock 4.2's cover, since the bracket would have required spacers. I also had to drill out the threads in a couple of bolt hole locations in the AMC 4.2 block to allow bolts for the Chrysler setup to pass through where AMC had bolts thread to the block. You cannot mix AMC serpentine accessories woth MOPAR/Chrysler serpentine accessores - the pulleys are offset differently between each setup(I planned originally on using the accessories from an '86 AMC 2.5L XJ serpentine setup, but you can't mix n match AMC with Chryco serpentine). I plan on using a mid 90's Ford Taurus SHO dual-fan electric setup on the radiator. The starter is for a 4.o HO XJ/TJ with the external slave bellhousing. - that about sums up the engine build. I shoulda built a stroker!

I just recently got around to mounting the fuel pump near the tank, and have a few things to finish up on the fuel lines, and need to fabricate a exhaust to allow me to finally get this thing started. I'm glad I emptied the fuel tank and Sta-Bil-fogged it, and also fogged the engine, and capped eveything for its two-year timeout. I'll have to pull the distributor to prime the engine before I can crank it, and my warranties on everything from my engine to my transmission have long-since expired. I never should have let it sit so long, but, what the hey.

[68AMXGOPAC]

Looks great !! and a good write up of what's happening. I like the spot you found for that giant electronics box.
That also answers my pondering on wether that box goes along with everything I have in a pile that came from Smitty with the Money Pit.

[olymunch]

Ya there's definitely a lot I don't know, what's a lifter?, but I google a lot. And it's true there is a lot of info on this site but having a conversation is helpful. When you observe two people who know what they are talking about it's easy to get lost in the lingo. Bell housing sensor what? But actually your both right. "A person who knows everything can't be taught anything." And that's exactly where I'm at, I have no problem asking the "dumb" questions but try to google as much as I can before I ask.

That's a good point tho, if I could just find a newer jeep with everything I need already in then I'd do that. And even upgrade the cam.

I just found a 99 and 2000 jeep Cherokee with a 4.0 with the engine for sale for $850. Because its low miles, 54k I think, and cheap because it's wrecked that it would come with all the accessories/wiring harness, it's an automatic 4x4, would this work as a bolt in? I wanna keep my T5.

Is there anywhere that would tell me what year make and model of jeep swap directly in to my eagle and bolt up to the T5? Obviously only newer wih mpi already on. Itd be nice to have a brand new engine with a 70/10 warranty but if I can get close then that would be great to. It's all about balance, price, reliability, time, power. If I can find a jeep, like you said, and just go grab the engine out of it, I'd even be willing to throw it on a dyno, ~$300, just for the piece of mind. The more options the better. I use an app on my phone to search all of the "list" at once.

I can always grab an engine and throw it the bed of my f150 and take it over to my mechanic after I get it dyno'd.

[doc65]

Just my .02 but if you are going to inject it from the outset why put a crate 258 instead of a crate 4.0 or alternately a good low mileage 4.0 long block(for lots less money). The difference in work would be minimal... Exhaust downpipe would need rework, intake manifold is part of the MPFI so no difference(I know it's a different manifold, but they are a dime a dozen, heck if he needs it I have a couple extra that I'd send one of for the cost of shipping), 4.0 has no provision for manual fuel pump, but again with the MPFI kit you wouldn't be using it. Other than those I'd expect it to be mostly a bolt in proposition.

Again my .02 only

 Personally I'm working on the cheap side, and bought a beater XJ with a rebuilt motor that I can drop in, it won't be quite as quick of an install as I will need to open the wiring harness and strip out the extraneous wires & connections for lights etc. Otherwise it's the same thing as installing any I6 and adding MPFI kit using factory hard parts like manifolds, throttle body, etc.

[olymunch]

H

[olymunch]

If I could choose I'd do the 4.0 mpi with performance cam but there's much to consider.

For instance:
1-I stay with the original 4.2, keeping in mind it runs fine, and just do the mpi upgrade
2-I get the crate 4.2 and do the mpi upgrade and performance cam
3-I get the crate 4.2 and do the mpi upgrade and 4.0 upgrade with performance cam
4-I get a crate 4.0, still have to buy the mpi plus a wiring harness, some other parts, modify the exhaust grind the alternator(according to eaglepedia), and add a performance cam.
5-I get a 4.0 from a newer jeep with low miles, dyno the motor, add performance cam

As far as:
1-if I'm going to add a 2k kit I wanna make SURE it's worth it, so I'd want it rebuilt and while it's out upgrade the cam.  To be honest I think it would actually be cheaper to just get a crate motor, keeping in mind it'd come with a 70/10 warranty and I'm going to all the trouble anyway. Not tryna do 1
2-I think this would be the cheapest option for just ensuring reliability with mild performance upgrades. If I went this route I'd still want to eventually upgrade to a 4.0 for more performance. Might do this
3/4-This was originally what I was thinking about, basically, which one would be cheaper? Because it sounds like there's no difference in performance or reliability? I'd like to do this option depending on the price but really, it seems like a crate 4.2 upgraded to 4.0 needs less parts and would be faster/easier. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there aren't any real bennefits to getting a crate 4.0 over getting a crate 4.2 and upgrading to 4.0? Especially after reading Joshpit's 4.0 swap article on eaglepedia and seeing all the stuff that has to be done.
5-I'm leaning this direction because it would be almost complete but would still need to mess with the exhaust and other small modifications. However it wouldn't have a warranty, there's a lot to be said about a warranty, and I'd still want it checked out by either a dyno or tearing it apart and add a performance cam.

In order or cheapest to most expensive I'd have to say its:
1-2-3-5-4
However if the #5 engine failed in some way later down the road then it would be last in order.

What do you guys think?