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Author Topic: Always hated automatics  (Read 11466 times)

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Offline dakrisnit

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Always hated automatics
« on: November 19, 2012, 11:28:50 PM »
Just remembering why I was originally shopping for an Eagle with a failed automatic transmission so I had every reason to swap in a 5 speed.  Problem is it turns out this "failed" transmission has been rebuilt and works great if you can keep fluid in it. 
This thing is worse than any Chevy or Ford AT I've ever had to deal with.  I've even got a Chrysler 727 that I could seal up.  I did the hammer and dolly thing to repair the bolt hole dimples and installed new gaskets which always worked on other makes.
 
Has anyone been able to get an AT pan gasket to really seal on one of these?  Is there an an aftermarket pan with enough structure to apply even pressure to the whole gasket and doesn't cost as much as the manual trans swap?

Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 06:46:34 AM »
I don't run double gaskets in my A998. I use a single standard gasket you get with any filter kit from NAPA or Baxter and it seats correctly. I think I may still be using the pan gasket from the last rebuild so I probably still have the spare somewhere. Either way, I've never had a problem. I'm using the stock pan too. Are you using an aftermarket(shiny with pan plug)?
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 08:20:34 AM »
I went through a lot of trannys for awhile. none of them leaked from the pan.

if you over tighten them they will leak.



Manitowoc WI

Offline eagleman

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 08:42:48 AM »
Well I'm glad some of you have had success because I have had none and believe me I have tried them all including the double gasket. Don't leak bad but never the less it still drips. Got a pan under both eagles until I come up with a plan but at this point I have none.
Turkeys walk.Eagles fly!!!

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 09:01:40 AM »
I believe a double gasket would be worse. do you extra garbidge to help "seal" it. i hate that crap and never use it



Manitowoc WI

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
Maybe try some Permatex Right Stuff.
1986 AMC Eagle Wagon 4.2L/4.0L head, AW4,NP242, Chrysler 8.25" rear.
1981 AMC Eagle Wagon As Seen On TV  Lost In Transmission


 

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Offline eagleman

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 11:31:25 AM »
Yep I also tried the right stuff both with a gasket and without. Thought I had it only to find out three weeks later the dreaded drip was back. At this point I am out of ideas but never the less quite fustrated to say the least. Ya know over my life time I have changed trans fluid and gaskets more times then I can count but these two eagles take the cake. I have not given up just out of ideas for the moment.I even went so far to put a bead of the right stuff on one pan and place it on a glass table with a weight and got under the table to check the seal. Wife bout had a fit although. Anyway it looked good so I cleaned it then reapplied the right stuff and installed it. Bolts finger tight plus a half turn. Held for about ten days then the dreaded drip was back. Eagle never left the garage. Any ideas? I'm listening. PS, Not wanting to hijack the original post just have the same problem and am looking for answers also. Thanks!
Turkeys walk.Eagles fly!!!

Offline mach1mustang351

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 11:59:03 AM »
It takes time but run a tap through all the bolt holes to ensure they are clean and use a dab of blue thread lock. Trans pan bolts are small and under low torque so they tend to loosen. This has worked well for me... before my car turned manual.
Fleet:

1987 AMC Wagon 4.0L, 3" Body lift, AX15, NP242
1981 AMC SX4 Sport
1969 Mustang (A Mach 1 with a 351)
1973 GMC K2500
2007 Suzuki Vstrom

Offline eagleman

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »
Thanks for the tip. The next time I pull the pan again,probably after Thanksgiving I will try a little blue thread locker. I did run a tap on all the holes and I could thread it all the way in with my fingers. Wish I could find another cork gasket instead of those rubber ones although. I think with a cork gasket and the right stuff I will have a better chance of success. I know if I get one to work it should also work on the other eagle. Probably should not be so upset cause both of them were dripping when I got them and both of these eagles have only thirty thousand miles on them. But one would think after doing this five or six times something would work. But I won't give up. One thing for sure I got the cleanest trans fluid around and auto zone loves me!
Turkeys walk.Eagles fly!!!

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 06:12:43 PM »
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?



Manitowoc WI

Offline eagleman

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 08:24:57 PM »
What do you mean, do I have the ability to read inch pounds. I have a toque wrench that reads in inch pounds and I believe I know how to read. So I should be all set right? And now no thread locker or the right stuff either. Does being confusied count?
Turkeys walk.Eagles fly!!!

Offline eaglebeek

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 09:04:41 PM »
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?
150 inch-pounds = 12.5 foot-pounds :eagle:
1984 Eagle Wagon, 258, auto, 2.73 gears, daily driver
1983 Eagle Limited Wagon, parts; sold
2000 Jeep Cherokee, 4.0, auto
2007 Hyundai Accent, radical downsize from minivan, wife's car and she loves it!

"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."--John W. Gardner, in "Excellence: Can We Be Equal and Excellent Too?" (1961)
 
Air-conditioning is so cool!

Offline dakrisnit

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 09:26:48 PM »
Wow, struck a nerve.  Those of you that have no leaks or even small enough ones that don't make a mess overnight, count yourselves lucky.
I think what happened to mine is the factory pan seal surface was worked too many times.  The car has 168K miles on it and was very well taken care of, no rust underneath, good body panels, welded exhaust, etc.  I would not be surprised if the original owner put 167K miles on it and changed fluid/filter in the trans on the regular maintenance schedule, then finally rebuilt the engine and trans and sold it to the kid I bought it from.  The kid said he put about 1000 miles on it and then the trans just quit, didn't start slipping or hanging on shifts, just suddenly quit.  
He was adamant that it wasn't the transfer case, but when I went to look at it the t-case vacuum lines were a mess and the t-case lever seemed to be centered.  I was able to move it into both 2wd and 4wd and could hear vacuum sucking as I moved it.  The car would not move at the time of course because the trans was all but empty when I pulled the pan (no metal shavings though).   Found out later when I had it home, that after the trans quit, the kid's stepdad had taken it to a "mechanic" friend of his who apparently proceeded to take a bunch of stuff apart and odd things were missing like the trans dipstick ( I thought the kid was the culprit).  My bet is either the frequent fluid changes weakened the pan or the friend torqued the fire out of it.
By the way, the double gasket trick didn't cut it either.  It held for the first day after adding fluid, then puddled by the second, almost as bad as the single gasket and has been consistent every day after.  Hadn't even gotten it out of the garage so its not bolts backing out.  Rubber gasket, not cork, and not the 94-ish Cherokee gasket by FelPro someone here had mentioned.  Just venting but, Advance Auto parts, which is based here in Roanoke, VA didn't even list the FelPro gasket.  I was going to try NAPA next.
Anyway I'm looking to replace the pan, because apparently I couldn't straighten it or its been weakened by by being worked too often, like bending a paper clip until it breaks. If I do have to replace the pan, I don't want another thin steel one, but those structural ones sure are pricey.  My hope when I found out this trans was rebuilt, was to get through this winter with the automatic and take my time swapping to the 5 speed before next winter, but this leak is too bad to try that yet.
Sorry to ramble, but I wanted to answer as many of the questions you might have for me as I could.

Offline mach1mustang351

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 09:47:46 PM »
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?

Not trying to be an a** or anything like that but as per Permatex the blue is for serviceable applications, is removable with hand tools and prevents vibration loosening.  Much like factory thread locked applications. 

http://www.permatex.com/products/product-categories/thread-compounds/threadlockers/permatex--surface-insensitive-threadlocker-blue-detail

Fleet:

1987 AMC Wagon 4.0L, 3" Body lift, AX15, NP242
1981 AMC SX4 Sport
1969 Mustang (A Mach 1 with a 351)
1973 GMC K2500
2007 Suzuki Vstrom

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Always hated automatics
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 06:49:07 AM »
What do you mean, do I have the ability to read inch pounds. I have a toque wrench that reads in inch pounds and I believe I know how to read. So I should be all set right? And now no thread locker or the right stuff either. Does being confusied count?

you don't have to be offended so easily. no point was being made to make you feel insuperior.

are you certain its the pan notthe shifter or the dipstick. than running down to the pan looking like a pan gasket leak.



Manitowoc WI

 

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