Where to find parts to rebuild/fix Transfer case

[max98059]

heres how to lock the front axle http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=38856.0

[carnuck]

Oooooo! Talk about money pits! (Visions are notorious for auto trans dropping out every 50,000 miles unless you are gentle with them) I hope they gave you back all the bolts and parts? Get it ASAP if not!

I believe they did. couple of boxes with bolts. Parents have decided to see if our mechanic can fix it. He is thinking of attaching a steel throttle cable and getting ride of the vacuum system all together. Still interested in buying your transfer case then. How much was shipping. Will need to see if he knows how to lock front axle.

The axle is simple to lock. Then all the transfercase/axle hoses can go away except two from the switch to the tcase and center one to the vacuum ball, which is attached to the intake. One fitting on the tcase shift motor gets plugged (closest to the linkage) and the lines will go to the other two ports. With the front axle locked, and the shift motor working correctly, you will have true shift on the fly!

I'll be doing this soon and taking pics as I go.

Tcase is still saved for you. I didn't get downtown (20 miles away) to double check shipping price, but about $100 should be right due to weight/size. It was working when I pulled it (the transmission's converter neck snapped, which is common and not related to the tcase) Slack in the chain appears to be minimum and when I find my bayonet torque wrench I can test the viscous coupler is functioning correctly. There was no black crud in the nice red ATF I drained from the tcase. Sealer around the center tells me it had work done at some point. Only thing missing is the speedo plug which I needed for the replacement tcase. The Grand Wagoneer one I put in had a screw thread on type which won't work with the Eagle's speedo cable.

[Eagle1984]

Oooooo! Talk about money pits! (Visions are notorious for auto trans dropping out every 50,000 miles unless you are gentle with them) I hope they gave you back all the bolts and parts? Get it ASAP if not!

I believe they did. couple of boxes with bolts. Parents have decided to see if our mechanic can fix it. He is thinking of attaching a steel throttle cable and getting ride of the vacuum system all together. Still interested in buying your transfer case then. How much was shipping. Will need to see if he knows how to lock front axle.

The axle is simple to lock. Then all the transfercase/axle hoses can go away except two from the switch to the tcase and center one to the vacuum ball, which is attached to the intake. One fitting on the tcase shift motor gets plugged (closest to the linkage) and the lines will go to the other two ports. With the front axle locked, and the shift motor working correctly, you will have true shift on the fly!

I'll be doing this soon and taking pics as I go.

Tcase is still saved for you. I didn't get downtown (20 miles away) to double check shipping price, but about $100 should be right due to weight/size. It was working when I pulled it (the transmission's converter neck snapped, which is common and not related to the tcase) Slack in the chain appears to be minimum and when I find my bayonet torque wrench I can test the viscous coupler is functioning correctly. There was no black crud in the nice red ATF I drained from the tcase. Sealer around the center tells me it had work done at some point. Only thing missing is the speedo plug which I needed for the replacement tcase. The Grand Wagoneer one I put in had a screw thread on type which won't work with the Eagle's speedo cable.

Thanks for the update. Did you get the message I sent. Also would you except pay-pal?

[Eagle1984]

Also how well does the front axle lock method listed on the wiki work? Also are there any diagrams that show how to hookup the vacuum system without the front axle. Tried looking at this on the wiki but got confused. Is there a step by step that shows which vacuum hose goes to pump, which is 2W and which hose on selector is 4W.

http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Select_Shift

http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Front_Axle_Lock

Would something like this help? What is it saying exactly?

http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Shift_on_the_Fly_Vacuum_Set_Up

Still hoping I did not do any damage to the front axle when that happened. Made a clunk going into park but probably trans case. How well does the cable operated transfer case shifter work? is it shift on the fly.

[carnuck]

It usually won't hurt the axle unless you do it too often.

[Eagle1984]

heres how to lock the front axle http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=38856.0

Thanks, just wondering after you have taken the cover off how do you add more fluid to it? Do you have to take that part/shaft of the front axle completely off? Also midwest transmission mentioned that the NP 119 does not have a coupler, is that correct?

[captspillane]

The 119, 129, 229 all have the same coupler. It isn't worth repairing. The critical silicone fluid it needs to operate with is toxic and out of production. That is why its so hard to find a company willing and even able to offer a rebuilt coupler. I am also suspicious that this company is "rebuilding" it but not refilling it. That would be a glorious waste of money.

That fluid is contained in the coupler with one big O-ring. When the O-ring fails or seeps slightly the fluid drains into the case. It settles at the bottom and has been reputated to destroy bearings by displacing the ATF where it shouldn't be.

Even if you do repair it, how long do you think it will last? I plan on restoring my Eagles and driving them for another 30 years. The other options are more readily available and more likely to last my intended service life of the vehicle.

The 249 Couplers are still available as New-Old-Stock. The 247 replaced the 249 and it does the exact same traction improvements that the 249 did, except it does it better and with a limited slip differential that doesn't require toxic fluid. The 249 coupler lasts much longer because it is a robust, very well sealed unit. They accomplished this by eliminating the integrated open differential found in the 119/129/229 cases. That means it will last much longer but the vehicle will need to be towed once it fails.

[priya]

The 119, 129, 229 all have the same coupler. It isn't worth repairing. The critical silicone fluid it needs to operate with is toxic and out of production. That is why its so hard to find a company willing and even able to offer a rebuilt coupler. I am also suspicious that this company is "rebuilding" it but not refilling it. That would be a glorious waste of money. 

I got my rebuilt NP119 viscous coupler from Midwesttrans.com yesterday.  The technical service manual says it can be bench tested but it needs the rear output shaft and yoke, assembled clutch gear and side gear (which I'm not sure is part of the VC or has to come from the disassembled transfer case) in order to test it.  I'd give it a go and see what I find but my transfer case is still in the car and we don't intend to remove it and install the VC for at least a few months and possibly into winter.

Even if you do repair it, how long do you think it will last?

I think it will last as long as the original equipment VC lasted.  Given that I probably will only drive mine 1000-1500 miles a year I think it quite unlikely that my VC won't last the lifetime of my Eagle.

[captspillane]

I agree its worth doing for a thoroughly restored Eagle like your pristine SX4, Priya. Your Eagle is exceptional and is treated as such. My comments are intended for those who do not know what a VC is and may become fearful of its failure. It is an accessory. It is just as critical to the operation of the vehicle as the spoiler is.

Can you tell that the unit you received is sealed and filled with the proper amount of silicone fluid? Does anything in their documentation confirm the details of the fluid and how it was filled? It needs to have a certain percentage of fluid to empty space in order to allow thermal expansion. Too much fluid and it will lock up prematurely. Not enough and it won't lock up at all. Do they expect you to adjust the fluid level during bench testing?

It seems entirely possible to me that a company would be willing to clean up and rebuild a VC and send it back to you with no fluid in it and no means to purchase the fluid. Rebuilt does not mean refilled, ready to install. It obviously would not be worth the rebuild cost if it still doesn't function afterwards.
 
In my case I also intend to make one garage kept, low mileage, beautiful and stock SX4 with a NP229 because that is the original intent of the designers. A pampered low mileage Eagle VC should last another 30 years and is certainly worth $350 to me for that specific Eagle. All of my daily driven Eagles will have the NP242 because I typically drive at least 50K miles a year. I would not trust the VC to last 250K miles and am not willing to rebuild it every five years for those utility vehicles.

[Eagle1984]

The 119, 129, 229 all have the same coupler. It isn't worth repairing. The critical silicone fluid it needs to operate with is toxic and out of production. That is why its so hard to find a company willing and even able to offer a rebuilt coupler. I am also suspicious that this company is "rebuilding" it but not refilling it. That would be a glorious waste of money. 

I got my rebuilt NP119 viscous coupler from Midwesttrans.com yesterday.  The technical service manual says it can be bench tested but it needs the rear output shaft and yoke, assembled clutch gear and side gear (which I'm not sure is part of the VC or has to come from the disassembled transfer case) in order to test it.  I'd give it a go and see what I find but my transfer case is still in the car and we don't intend to remove it and install the VC for at least a few months and possibly into winter.

Even if you do repair it, how long do you think it will last?

I think it will last as long as the original equipment VC lasted.  Given that I probably will only drive mine 1000-1500 miles a year I think it quite unlikely that my VC won't last the lifetime of my Eagle.

Thanks, though I find that odd as The tech I talked too swore up and down that the NP 119 does not have a coupler. for someone that is trying to get ride of any possible part not working is it worth getting the NP 119 over the 129, how well does the cable to transfer case idea work?

[priya]

Can you tell that the unit you received is sealed and filled with the proper amount of silicone fluid? Does anything in their documentation confirm the details of the fluid and how it was filled? It needs to have a certain percentage of fluid to empty space in order to allow thermal expansion. Too much fluid and it will lock up prematurely. Not enough and it won't lock up at all. Do they expect you to adjust the fluid level during bench testing?

I can't tell anything by looking at the unit,  the unit appears sealed, it and its visible components all appear as new.  There was no documentation with the package.  The Eagle technical service manual didn't say anything about adjusting the fluid level during bench testing.

[priya]

Thanks, though I find that odd as The tech I talked too swore up and down that the NP 119 does not have a coupler. for someone that is trying to get ride of any possible part not working is it worth getting the NP 119 over the 129, how well does the cable to transfer case idea work?

Yes, it does seem very odd that the tech would insist it doesn't have a viscous coupler.  I don't know what the difference is between the NP119 and the NP129,  perhaps captspillane will be on later to give you advice.

[captspillane]

Here is a link posted on a similar discussion from a few months back. It discusses the VW version. The same concepts apply. Its possible that the VW fluid is still available someplace and that it could be used inside the Eagle VC if we could figure out the ideal percentage to fill it to.

Here  i found some interesting torque curves for the VC.
Note that this curve is for the VW synchro again, but this website has lots of interesting information.

http://www.syncronauts.org.uk/syncro-technical/syncro-transmission/viscous-couplings/refurb-vcs-torque-curves

Use the tab "synchro technical" to find out more.

[captspillane]

Yes, it does seem very odd that the tech would insist it doesn't have a viscous coupler.  I don't know what the difference is between the NP119 and the NP129,  perhaps captspillane will be on later to give you advice.

The tech obviously doesn't have a clue. The "9" means viscous coupler. That is why a 119, 129, 229, and 249 all must have viscous couplers. Of those its only the 249 that isn't an identical interchangeable unit. The 249 viscous coupler is very different than the earlier transfer cases.

The first digit is the number of speeds, in other words a "1" doesn't have low range and a "2" does. That has always been true.

The second digit changed in meaning, but in the newer generation of transfer cases it is an approximate strength rating. In other words a 241 is stronger than a 231 but not nearly as strong as a 271. The only expection to that is our transfer cases. In the early 119, 129, 128, 229, 228, 219 cases the second digit tells whether the transfer case has a 2WD function. In other words a 129 can be made into a 119 by eliminating the 2WD function and it can be made into a 229 by adding the low range components.

A "8" for the last digit means it has an open differential only. The 128 and 228 transfer cases were totally identical to the 119 and 129 except the Viscous Coupler was eliminated. All your 1986 Eagles and Jeep trucks had those. Your 129 transfer case will behave exactly like a 128 if your viscous coupler doesn't have any fluid in it, which isn't a bad thing. You won't notice the difference unless under extreme circumstances.

Other popular third digits are "1" to mean fully locked outputs in 4WD. They are often called "part time" cases because they can't be left in 4WD on dry roads without damaging the transfer case. This includes the XJ 231, Rubicon 241, and the beefy 271 found behind the Ford 7.3 diesels. "2" as a third digit, like the Jeep 242, means that it is a torque biased open diffential transfer case. It is called a "full time" case because it can be left in 4WD on dry pavement. It also has a fully locked "part time" mode. "7" as a third digit, like the Grand Cherokee 247, is a limited slip differential. This is the modern version of a viscous coupler. It lasts longer, responds faster, and doesn't use the toxic silicone fluid. The 247 replaced the 249 because viscous couplers are considered obsolete.

[captspillane]

For someone that is trying to get ride of any possible part not working is it worth getting the NP 119 over the 129, how well does the cable to transfer case idea work?

The idea of putting a cable actuator on the transfer case is a poor one. The shifter needs about a pound of pressure applied forward to keep in 4WD and rearward to keep in 2WD. It does not click into position and stay there on its own like a NP242 in a Cherokee would. The only only cable shifters I know of are meant to be used with a NP231 or NP242, they don't work for the 129. The vacuum diaphragm was designed to pull constant tension in order to keep the shifter from popping into "false neutral."

When the transfer case gets stuck between gears the car will lurch forward, but not actually drive. It will make severe whining noises. This is what I mean by false neutral. The shifter is stuck between 4WD and 2WD and must be put back into gear and held there. It is not "Neutral" like a Cherokee transfer case would have. It will damage the transfer case if you leave it there.

If you own an Eagle with a 129, make sure you keep a 9/16th wrench in the glove box. I've had to crawl under an Eagle to pop it back into gear about a dozen times. The car has to be towed if you don't have that wrench with you.

I posted a picture on here or on the other thread showing a piece of rope tied to the shifter. I use a three to one mechanical advantage "Z rig" pattern to pull about a pound of pressure onto the shifter to keep it fully engaged. I leave it tied like that permaneantly. That essentially makes the 129 behave exactly like a 119. I prefer the 129 over the 119 slightly because I've had to crawl under, untie the rope, and tie it rearward during mechanical failure in the past. That lets you tow it or remove the front axle.