Cleaned carb, won't idle.

[lapoltba]

A little background before I start.  The car is an 83 SX4 6cyl 4speed manual.  It was sitting for an unknown (very long) period of time and I am trying toget it running again.  What I've done already:

Fresh oil change
Replaced a TON of vacuum lines
New Plugs, wires, cap, rotor
new battery
drained fuel tank, fresh fuel
disassembled, inspected and cleaned carb
New fuel filter


The problem:
The car will start, fire and run like total crap,  but only if the accelerator is to the floor.  Sounds like it's not hitting on all 6 cylinders.   I think cyl 5&6 aren't firing correctly as the plugs looked wet when I changed them.

Any suggestions as to where to look?  I've checked for vac leaks, but since the car won't stay running and I don't have a friend, it's hard to troubleshoot.

[Billman]

I'd start by making sure the intake/exhaust are solid to the engine especially towards the back of the engine( they tend to loosen over time). Then make sure you've got the carb down solid. Any air getting in after the fuel/ air mix will make it difficult for you to ever get it running right. Once you're reasonably sure you've got the the air leaks sealed up. Check over your plug wires condition and firing order and make sure you dizzy cap isn't cracked or otherwise useless.

[lapoltba]

I'll check the intake, exhaust and carb tomorrow.  I'm tired of tinkering today, it was way to hot out for me.

Like i said, plugs, wires, cap, rotor are all new.  I did also double check the firing order as I sort of lost track in the swap.

I was going to do the simplified vacuum setup but I wasn't sure what to do with the cat.  I never did find a definitive answer about what effect plugging the air supply to it would do.  I want no part of an overheating cat and a fire.  Would I be safer just to gut the cat and plug the line?

I was also going to do the ECM Test mod, but since it's not running now, i can't really do that.  Waiting on a carb kit that should be here tomorrow.  If all else fails i'll just rebuild it like I had intended to do in the first place.

[lapoltba]

Just a thought, could this be a problem with the pickup coil in the distributor and/or a bad ICM?

Need to check which port I connected the Distributor vac advance to on the carb as well.  I may have connected it to manifold vacuum by accident.

[jim]

I don't think the ICM would cause this kind of problem.  It does sound to me like a fuel/air thing since it will run at WOT.  That comes back to vacuum again. 
Vacuum gauges are not expensive.  It is possible to connect one so that it can be seen from the driver seat.

[lapoltba]

I'm going to grab a compression tester tonight after work, i'll see if i can find a vacuum gauge too and rig that up too.   

[eaglefreek]

How  well did you clean yhe carb? Sitting as long as it did, the old fuel turns to a hard varnish.

[lapoltba]

I have a feeling someone cleaned it not *that* long ago.  It certainly didn't look like fuel had been sitting in it.  There was very little to no varnish in the float bowl and the idle pickups and jets were clear.  There was no buildup or corrosion in the idle jets, how I don't know...  Accelerator pump works as well and the gaskets were fairly newish. 

I basically split it in half and cleaned the jets/passages, float bowl, float valve etc.  I took off the feedback solenoid and cleaned that up along with the chamber everything slides into.  removed the top cover and cleaned out the throttle linkage/acc pump actuator.  It didn't really look bad so I just reassembled it as it was.   

[lapoltba]

Intake manifold is tight, couldn't even budge the bolts.  I didn't have a torque wrench to check them, but I highly doubt it's leaking there. 

Pulled the brake booster line off and capped that to eliminate that as a source of leak.  Pulled the distributor advance off and capped that.  No idea how it was routed, It didn't even look like it went to the freakin carb.  Best i could trace it, it went over to the vac canister in the drivers wheel well, and then all the way back to a valve on the passenger fender before going to the carb (maybe).   I think it's time to start removing the emissions crap on this thing and start fresh.

Couldn't do the compression test because the brainiacs at pep boys gave me a loaner kit that doesn't fit the plug threads.  I didn't bother trying to fit it, since the kit they had only had 2 different adapters, and from experience those kits don't fit anything.... I'll just have to go to harbor "freight" and buy one.  Too bad most of my tools are up in NY and not here. I hate having to buy tools I already own.

I started looking closer at the wiring on the passenger side and now I see that it has been tampered with. The PO did a pretty good job of camouflaging his work, but it's not pretty.   The plugs that go to the distributor and ICM were pretty gummed up with old grease of some kind.  I should probably get those cleaned out. 

From the engine just bogging down at full throttle for about a minute total so far, the #1 plug is all sooty and looks like it's running super rich.

Doesn't look like the feedback actuator is actually doing anything at all.  the needles haven't moved a bit.  Wondering if something is fried or not connected correctly.

Aside from the compression test, anyone got any more input?

[carnuck]

There should be a long 14mm adapter in the kit from Pepboys. That fits 60% of the cars, including all post '63 AMCs

Are you close to Seattle or? Oops! I see you're easterner)

[lapoltba]

I don't really know what the issue was.  The threads looked okay but may have been damaged on the adapter.  I wasn't going to force it into the head.

My work is pretty much on hold.  The apartment complex i'm in is run by unreasonable, irrational slumlord managers.  I called last week when I got the car to get a parking sticker and let them know that I was working on getting the registration and plates.  (I'm registering out of state by mail)  They said it wouldn't be a problem and I got a temporary parking pass.  Last night/this morning my car was GONE!      It took me until 2PM and at least a dozen phone calls and emails to figure out where the heck the took the car. 

Turns out they towed it because it didn't have plates on it... dur da dur...  On top of that, even if I do get it registered, since i'm the only one on the lease, I can't have more than one vehicle on the property.  Some stupid thing about there not being enough parking.  Which is bull since there's at least 30 visitor spaces open in addition to 50 or more regular spots in the area i was parked.

They are at least bringing the car back and giving me until Friday to find it a new home.  I won't be paying any of the towing fees.  I already talked to a shop locally that will do the compression check and take a look at things.  Unfortunately I won't be able to do any of the work myself so i'm sure it's going to cost 4x as much now.  Hopefully it's just a stuck lifter or something causing no compression. 

Poo makes a mess when it hits the fan....

[Jurjen]

While cleaning the carb, did you find the check balls and reinstalled them properly?

http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw03.html

item 43 and 55 in the exploded view.

[lapoltba]

Yes, both were there and reinstalled.

[lapoltba]

I'm fairly convinced it's not a fuel air issue.  Obviously a compression test will confirm this though. 

I just had a thought and correct me if i'm wrong... This motor most likely has never been opened up.  The stock timing gears in it are nylon (plastic) right?  I'm wondering if they are busted and the valves are just not operating at all?  It really acts like the timing is way off, or like the valves aren't even operating at all.  I'm confused as to why it doesn't backfire through the carb though, I would think with a valve open and fuel in the cylinder it would still ignite the fuel.

I guess the quick way to see if it's busted is to turn the engine over with plugs out by hand and see if the rockers move eh?

[Jurjen]

Yes, you could watch the rockers.
The overlap when outlet closes and inlet opens also indicates the top position of the (2) piston(s). You could check that with a screwdriver through the plug hole.
Does your Eagle still have the original IM?