prestolite to Duraspark II question?

[Tony and Nicki]

Hi guys,

I realize that this forum may not be the best place to ask this question but I'm grasping at straws here.


Anyway, I think I'm having timing issues with the '77 258 jeep engine I installed in a 258 '80 concord.

Well, forgive me for being an ignoramus but I think my issue could be that I'm trying to run the Concord's stock Motorcraft Duraspark II ignition including the stock Duraspark II distributor in place of the Prestolite Distributor that was on the Jeeps engine.

I'm guessing that you can't just drop the Duraspark II dizzy in an engine that originally had a Prestolite Dizzy and expect it to work right.

If this is true, what I need to know is, What would I need to do to continue to use the Duraspark II system? Alternatively what would I need to do to use the Prestolite Distributor from the jeep?

cheers!
tony and nicki
Tucson AZ

[eaglefreek]

It should drop right in. What's it doing that you suspect it's the Duraspark?

[GRONK]

The Duraspark II will not just drop in and to be honest, when going from points to electronic ignition, the easiest way is to drop an HEI in.  1 wire and regap the plugs.  I sell the TFI upgrades for the DII ignitions and the HEI's and I always recommend the HEI when moving from points.  I do recommend a 12V ceramic resistor on the HEI though.

[eaglefreek]

The Duraspark II will not just drop in and to be honest, when going from points to electronic ignition, the easiest way is to drop an HEI in.  1 wire and regap the plugs.  I sell the TFI upgrades for the DII ignitions and the HEI's and I always recommend the HEI when moving from points.  I do recommend a 12V ceramic resistor on the HEI though.

Different gear on the camshaft? Just curious  as to why it won't go in an older block. I know it is common in the Jeep community to remove the Prestolites and put in a Duraspark without changing anything else except the distributor and associated wiring. The vehicle in question here already is wired for Duraspark and an older block is being used.

[Tony and Nicki]

OK thanks guys,

I don't necessarily suspect the Duraspark II. It drops in OK I'm just looking for clues as to what the problem is.

It doesn't seem to matter what I do I can't it to run well. The Ignition system and carb combination was working fine with the original Concord engine right up until the time it threw a rod and the donor engine was running nice when I saw it before I bought it. So I'm looking for anything that I know that's changed. One thing that's changed is I left out the ballast resistor and Condenser to the coil 'cos the wires broke right at the resistor and coil.

As it happens I have an MSD Blaster 2 that came with the Jeep engine that has a Condenser that's easily hookable and as far as I know doesn't require a resistor so I'm thinking of trying that. (or if it does require a ballast resistor I'll install one. I believe it's a 1.3ohm)

I'll also be checking the cap and rotor and switch out the spark wires just 'cos I have another set that's prettier and newer.

I'll let you know what happens.

Cheers!
tony and nicki

[Tony and Nicki]

Hi guys,

Here's an update on today:

I tried the Blaster 2 with the condenser hooked up and there is no significant change. Also checked the cap for cracks and grease and the rotor for damage and cleaned it. Also switched out the spark cables for the Jeep's which are in better shape. All no change. I took her for a drive to get gas and it was idling really rough and when you put your foot down on the gas it goes slower than without it but revs higher. I had the same thing with my Mercury Bobcat after an engine swap and it turned out to be my timing was way off.

However I've checked the timing again and again and it reads 8BTDC @ 600rpms in D with the vac adv diconnected.

One curious thing I did note is that the #1 tower on the Prestolite dizzy, (when it was on the jeep and running good), is actually #6 spark cable . The order is correct just 180* off. Looks like the stock cap so I don't really understand how it was running like that unless someone had messed with the internals.

As I said, I'm not using the Prestolite at this point. However I'm considering dropping it in just to see if it'll run better with it and thereby confirm a problem with the Duraspark Dizzy/system or not as the case may be.

cheers!
tony and nicki

[68AMXGOPAC]

Did you install the dizzy 180* out by mistake ?? An engine will run 180* out. I made that mistake once , the car did run, but had no power , and the headers got pretty cherry red after a drive. First one I did , and didn't think about the crank going around twice for every one revolution of the cam..................

[Tony and Nicki]

Thanks 68amxgopac,

Yep. It's possible that I got it 180* off. I followed this guide on jeepforum twice but it's still possible:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/i-6-teamrush-upgrade-definitive-669495/index2.html

I still need to confirm the balancer notch accuracy using the chopstick method though.

I'm also considering buying a new Duraspark II dizzy as the one in there now has quite a bit of slop in it.

cheers!
tony and nicki

[IowaEagle]

Caps for our cars are typically for Fords and the #1 marking on the cap may not be correct for our use.  The  following is excerpted from a How To article in the AMC Eaglepedia:


Using the Six Cylinder Firing Order Chart found below begin installing your plug wires starting with the number one wire on the cap. Note some caps are marked with a #1 this may or may not be correct for our application. Our number one plug when looking down at the cap from the fender is close to the 6:00 position (Reference the diagram below) -- some of these caps may have #1 in the 7:00 position you do not want to start there. Work clockwise until all are done. Make sure all connections are tight.



The numbers on the distributor may be hard to read. The firing order is as follows. 1 - 5 - 3 - 6 - 2 - 4. So plug wire number 1 on the distributor (the hole nearest you when looking down on the cap from over the fender) goes to the very front spark plug. The next position clockwise on the distributor is #5 and it goes to the next to last plug on the engine. So just keep going until all six are done.

[Tony and Nicki]

Thanks IowaEagle,

Actually I never took the wires off the Duraspark II Dizzy cap (from when it was in the car and running) when I removed it from Concord's engine.



I was intending to use the Prestolite dizzy and so I left it still installed in the Jeep engine.




Later I discovered that it would need the corresponding Prestolite module to run it and that in any case is not a well thought of design so I installed the Duraspark II from the Concord with it's wires still in place.




I'll take a close up later and post it.

Cheers!
tony and nicki

[Tony and Nicki]

Whoops!

Uploaded the wrong picture for the 2nd picture down. I meant to upload a picture of the Jeep engine before installation:



Cheers!
tony and nicki

[Tony and Nicki]

Actually this picture shows it better 'cos the sparks are all hooked up:



Cheers!
tony and nicki

[jim]

Are my eyes playing tricks?  It looks to me like no. 1 is going to cap 4, and no. 2 is going to cap 6, and so on.

[Tony and Nicki]

No your eyes are not playing tricks on you jim,

That's how the Pretolite was installed in the Jeep engine. #6 is where #1 should be (according to the mark on the cap anyway) but the sequence is correct. However, the mark for #1 is not in the same place as Duraspark II, it's where our #3 would be. Follow?

I'm thinking someone installed the Dizzy 180* off and compensated by moving the wires around.

cheers!
tony and nicki

[IowaEagle]

Yeah, that's all messed up.  Probably was installed wrong by a previous individual.