Heres the problem... Got new carb and that is all set up but the car is now insanely slow.
What are your shift points?
My wagon will never rise above 2000rpm... it shifts at 1800-2000 everytime....needless to say this makes it dangerously slow and a top speed of about 60 MPH.... any ideas?? thanks
the car will rev up as high as you want in park or neutral but when the car is under load its is really dogging it..
JAMES
Are you implying it was doing OK before you put on the carb?? If so; you probably got a messed up carb!!
Yeah, those numbers are incredibly off. Did you reconnect and adjust the throttle rod to the transmission?
You may have to readjust your timing too, its its too far retarded it will run like it has less horsepower than your lawn mower
Does it run ok otherwise? any missing? If the carb is not seated correctly it will cause a vacuum leak that will make it run like a dog too
Also speaking of timing, when you put on new carb did you hook distributer advance to ported vacuum?
this group will get it figured out for you, while an Eagle is never going to be incredibly fast, it should be a lot better than it is for you now.
yeah i had carb issues when i first obtained the car stalling...chugging...ect... I ended up getting one of the jeep carb set ups from GRONK... I put the new carb on and all those problems dissapeared. The car runs great other than being very weak/slow. It doesnt miss fire or anything like that. I dont seem to be running to rich or lean (at least not enough to be this bad.)
I have eliminated all but a very small amount of vaccum .. The vaccum advance is definantly hooked up, and the car doesnt hesitate or accelerate unevenly... its very smooth...just slow lol However i was certainly thinking about a weak spark issue?
I set the timing on the car, but it was before i got this carb. Should i need to time it up again?
I have not done anything with the throttle rod to the tranny... not familier with that setup. While i am very mechanically inclined.. its my first AMC :) im assuming this is a rod that hooks to the throttle via a little ball in socket joint? If so i have that hooked up
thanks for the help
Yes the throttle rod goes from the carb to the transmission. Without It the shift points are way off and eventually you will destroy the transmission. We have pictures of it in the Eaglepedia.
How did you set the timing? I have never used a timing light on my car. I use a vacuum gauge to get it close, then I 'advance it till I get pinging on acceleration, then back it off a hair.
Slow timing may cause it to overheat. Is the engine running hotter than normal? :eagle:
AMC' s like a little extra advance had been my experience, I always set the timing by ear. Like eaglefreek said get a vacuum guage and set it till you get max, around 19 or 20 then take it for a drive. A little extra advance will give it a lot more jump, of course if it pings back it off just a little bit, repeat as needed
On the kick down its the long rod that runs down to the transmission, this has to be hooked up correctly, and dont forget the spring! Without it the transmission will shift way too soon
used a timing light and some generous chap before me have scratch lines that matched up when it was in time :)
sounds like maybe this rod is my issue? Would this account for early shift and appear as weak or underpowered?
Quote from: jsherrod on November 14, 2013, 09:05:24 PM
used a timing light and some generous chap before me have scratch lines that matched up when it was in time :)
sounds like maybe this rod is my issue? Would this account for early shift and appear as weak or underpowered?
It could.
Here is the How To we have in the Eaglepedia. http://amceaglesden.com/guide/index.php?title=Throttle_Cable/Rod_Adjustment_-_4_%26_6_Cylinder_Cars
Good luck with that. The Motorcraft is a downgrade from the original Carter. Several of us have struggled for a long time to get the Motorcrafts to run right and never have. I've got four of those kits sitting in junk piles here.
The most recent one was Macdude. Once the Carter was back on and his Gronk carb in the trash, he thought he was driving a race car. The power increased dramatically. He tried everything under the sun to get that cursed Motorcraft to run right.
If you reinstall your Carter simply shoot carb cleaner into everything that looks like a tube until you see it come out someplace else. They like to clog up. Dirt also likes to collect at the bottom of the bowel and that is worth shooting out. I don't even bother replacing gaskets most of the time because the Carter is very forgiving for that sort of thing. In that way I like them alot. They're cheap and they give great gas mileage most of the time. I don't care if its electronic or not, I just leave them unplugged.
The big downfall of the Carter is the choke linkage. That was probably your issue the whole time. When you drive the car cold the bimetallic coil of the choke will push the choke plate down. If you push the gas pedal a vacuum diaphragm on the inboard side will pull it back open sometimes and if you really push the pedal all the way down your throttle is supposed to push on a piece of plastic connected by a thin tiny linkage to the choke plate. The system actually works pretty well most of the time.
What happens every winter for me is that the choke resists while my pedal pushing pushes. That tiny linkage bends. Once it is bent you have to bend it back or else the choke plate will be floppy and go where ever it wants, giving you terribly annoying stall problems, hesitations, poor gas mileage, and aggravation. My mother routinely used to stick a screwdriver in the top of the carb to get our Eagle started years ago before I was old enough to drive.
Bend it back and you're on your way making 25 MPG or better. I have gotten 29 MPG out of stock Eagles many times. The Carter is much better than that chunk of junk Motorcraft. There is no hope of that running right.
Kudos to you for defending the Carter! AMC, believe it or not, actually had carb experts who evaluated what was out there and typically chose what worked best. Look at all the different carbs they used because they were not bound to a corporate carb.
well the carter was trashed and it will not be going back on. But before this turns into some sort of carb war...a carb issue does not account for early shifting
Don't worry. We have friendly discussions here. The Den has a great group of folks who visit us regularly.
I have a free carter if you would like it for the cost of postage.....Rich
Quote from: IowaEagle on November 15, 2013, 10:04:56 AM
Kudos to you for defending the Carter! AMC, believe it or not, actually had carb experts who evaluated what was out there and typically chose what worked best. Look at all the different carbs they used because they were not bound to a corporate carb.
Other than the darn thing plugging up, I've had good luck with the Carter while it was unplugged. It's not much for power, but it just seems to work. Sometime I would like to fix my vacuum lines so Doug isn't the only one making 20+ miles per gallon. I am also thinking about transplanting a mopar Carter and computer on it if it is a simpler design.
You don't need a computer in my opinion. Backdating the motor to a time when they only had a pcv valve is the way to go but keeping a more modern ignition system like the TFI or HEI.
I think your issue is the Throttle Linkage not ADJUSTED properly. If you give it lotsa gas, it should keep going. If not a lot, it'll shift. However, if it is not aggressive enough, you'll never have enough throttle pressure to keep it from shifting. I had this issue on mine. Granted, my throttle valve linkage was, like, not there at all, but that solved things quite a bit. Try this...Shift manually. If it accelerates as you expect (for an Eagle :rotfl:), then you need to adjust your TV linkage. If not, the next place I would look would be your timing. There are people here who an time by vacuum or ear. I can't. Therefore, I bought a badass timing gun at Autozone, the digital one $100. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. The digital light gives you a tach right there and allows you to manipulate the timing so you time to the 0 BTDC mark on the engine. I am the world's "biggest" novice, and I have had these same issues.
***When you put the MC21xx on, make sure you did the ECM Test (that is N*tter if the blocker is still up). Also, you DO have to retime after that because if you did the ECM Test properly, the ECU no longer works. That thing actually adjusted timing based on what was going on in the carb. My timing was WAYYYYY off after I did the MC upgrade. BTW, I like the MC21xx. My car runs a HELLUVA lot better in every way after the upgrade.
Good luck!
If the computer isn't bypassed and you don't have an HEI dist, then timing may be stationary and causing the doggy condition.
Quote from: drock87 on November 16, 2013, 02:45:15 PM
I think your issue is the Throttle Linkage not ADJUSTED properly. If you give it lotsa gas, it should keep going. If not a lot, it'll shift. However, if it is not aggressive enough, you'll never have enough throttle pressure to keep it from shifting. I had this issue on mine. Granted, my throttle valve linkage was, like, not there at all, but that solved things quite a bit. Try this...Shift manually. If it accelerates as you expect (for an Eagle :rotfl:), then you need to adjust your TV linkage. If not, the next place I would look would be your timing. There are people here who an time by vacuum or ear. I can't. Therefore, I bought a badass timing gun at Autozone, the digital one $100. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. The digital light gives you a tach right there and allows you to manipulate the timing so you time to the 0 BTDC mark on the engine. I am the world's "biggest" novice, and I have had these same issues.
***When you put the MC21xx on, make sure you did the ECM Test (that is N*tter if the blocker is still up). Also, you DO have to retime after that because if you did the ECM Test properly, the ECU no longer works. That thing actually adjusted timing based on what was going on in the carb. My timing was WAYYYYY off after I did the MC upgrade. BTW, I like the MC21xx. My car runs a HELLUVA lot better in every way after the upgrade.
Good luck!
thanks for the info! I will check the linkage today and timing.. HOWEVER i definantly did NOT do the ECM test.... apparently i missed that memo/direction.... ill look through the forum for info on how to do it unlesso ne of you wants to be so kind as to point me the right direction... thanks so much
Its in the Den's Eaglepedia.
i will attempt the bypass today and let you know the results.... do u recomend the HEI distrib?
HIE is a good, inexpensive upgrade.
okay here is my update on my wagon....
I did the ECM Test with the wire splices and then set the timing to 10-12 .... (timing is nice and smooth, does not jump around)
there is no change on how the car runs.... so next is the throttle tranny linkage... HOWEVER i did notice that the eagle runs the EXACT same whether the vacuum advance is hooked up or not..... am i wrong to think that it should run totally different? my vacuum advance is hooked to the port below the choke on the left side of carb (when looking at the carb from the front bumper)... since im nearly positive that is the correct port is there something im missing? if my vacuum advance was bad would my car act sluggish?
thanks
i am getting vacuum from the carb and it moves the advance.... car revs up great in idle...gonna adjust throttle linkage and hope this problem goes away...not super hopeful though because the car is still sluggish when i mannualy shift..... running out of ideas
well i adjusted the throttle rod and it didnt make a difference....
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Now to ponder this some more.
im thinking compression issues? worn out valve or something
Quote from: jsherrod on November 17, 2013, 03:27:17 PM
I did the ECM Test with the wire splices and then set the timing to 10-12 .... (timing is nice and smooth, does not jump around)
Throw the timing light back in the tool box and advance the timing a little at a time until you get pinging, then back it off a hair. I keep the distributor hold down bolt just snug enough so I can turn the distributor with a just a little bit of force.
I still think you need more advance to your timing like Eaglefreek said
Im not against a timing light, Its just that with a 30 year old chain riding on a nylon gear it possible that things don't line up quite like they used to
I have an MC 2100 and an HEI dist, its all about enough fuel and fire at the right time!
keep us posted
If there is timing chain stretch, as mentioned, that could be your problem. The way I used to time cars and still do is leave the distributor hold down bolt just loose enough to be able to move it incrementally with a bit of force while driving the car with the engine at operating temperature.. Going up hills really helps with this. That way you are dialing the timing in based on your engine's age and wear. You will know when you hit the sweet spot and can tighten the dizzy down.
well i retarded and advanced the mess out of the poor eagle to no avail... i may have noticed a slight improvement, but not worth noting... however i did clock my 0-60 time if you are interested... IF im on a flat enough surface to reach 60mph i can get there in a speedy 45 seconds.... -_-
probably going to get new plugs and a compression test this weekend...if that doesnt work i will probably have to replace timing chain unless there are better ideas.
Before I replaced the timing chain the crankshaft rotated 10 degrees or more before the distributor rotor started to move. I could hear the timing chain slap the inside of the timing case at idle speed. I'm surprised it ran at all.
Following replacing the timing chain I had to retard timing at least 5 degrees. I had horrible knocking where it was set. :eagle:
You can counter some of that by putting in a 4.0L timing set ('91 and newer) which retards cam timing and allows for more initial advance timing without pinging.
compression came back ranging from 130-150 ...motor was cold.
Compression sounds good so it seems you have a retarded spark or carb air flow problem. Is the mechanical advance functioning in the dist?
Are your brakes dragging? Mine just were.
the mech advance moves and pulls the distributer but the car runs the same if it is connected or unconnected...im going to replace the guts (already had a new cap) of the distributer and put new spark plugs in and see what happens... the brakes dragging is a curious idea.....I will double check that as well
Why not put in an HEI distributor? That would eliminate the troublesome Motorcraft ignition module and give you more spark.
Mechanical advance is in the bottom of the dist. You're talking about the vacuum controlled advance.
Make sure the choke is opening up.
Quote from: carnuck on November 22, 2013, 03:11:03 AM
You can counter some of that by putting in a 4.0L timing set ('91 and newer) which retards cam timing and allows for more initial advance timing without pinging.
Yeah...I wish I knew this before I changed out the timing chain. The deed is done, so I'm going to leave it as is. Even with the 4.2 chain/sprockets I have better response at higher RPM than with the old worn-out 170k-mile chain.
Quote from: Amc1320 on November 19, 2013, 03:52:36 PM
I still think you need more advance to your timing like Eaglefreek said
Im not against a timing light, Its just that with a 30 year old chain riding on a nylon gear it possible that things don't line up quite like they used to
I have an MC 2100 and an HEI dist, its all about enough fuel and fire at the right time!
keep us posted
I agree. Mine barely ran with the old stretched timing chain and timing set at factory spec. Particularly at high altitude advanced timing is necessary. You can always dial it back if you get pinging. :eagle:
Factory spec is only good for about the first 10,000 miles of a car's life. After that you adjust for wear and tear.
Quote from: carnuck on November 23, 2013, 03:29:05 PM
Are your brakes dragging? Mine just were.
This is a great question to ask.
It is common to have brake drag. Luckily you have an '84, so those calipers are less likely to drag than the older design. You still need to make sure the caliper can easily slide on the pins. Your best bet is to pull each pin one at a time and clean them up and put them back with copious amounts of never-seize to lubricate them. I've also had a mechanic accidentally install the drum brake auto-adjusters on the wrong side before. It took me months of problems before figuring out what happened. Of the top of my head I think it should be right hand threads on the driver side and left hand threads on the passenger side. I've also had frozen parking brake cables cause brake drag.
i couldn't quite figure this issue out so I took it to some old timer... he is working on it now but he just keeps insulting me and the car. He calls me and goes "who did the abortion on this engine"...his feathers were all ruffled because the carb was not the carter and the distrib had been upgraded lol
Quote from: jsherrod on January 08, 2014, 10:26:34 AM
i couldn't quite figure this issue out so I took it to some old timer... he is working on it now but he just keeps insulting me and the car. He calls me and goes "who did the abortion on this engine"...his feathers were all ruffled because the carb was not the carter and the distrib had been upgraded lol
Hahaha! I've had this happen to me too. Most of my people don't have an issue with what I have done, but one time I took it to a "Tune-Up" specialist. Basically, he can still work on carburetors and is actually quite good. Plus, he fixes things instead of replaces parts. I told him, due to my experience with people having no idea what the heck my car is, that I have the factory shop manual in the car. I think he described it as some useless waste of paper, or something along that nature. Granted, he figured out my carb was fine, but my EGR was clogged and promptly bypassed it. So, can't really fault him; guy knew his stuff.
yeah same story- turns out the linkage was getting stuck/ accelerator pedal was actually bent so carb was only opening up 1/2 way--- its always something like that x.x
Guy knew what he was doing and only charge me $80 so cant beat that. just had to endure some AMC hatred lol