Overhauling Disco front diff: Parts list or references

[The Dark Side of Will]

Of course I was an idiot and left the left output flange and the right bearing retainer at my house after I installed the speedy sleeve to the output flange and painted the bearing retainer.

This is the collection of hardware for the intermediate shaft and right output flange:



Here's the open IMS bearing bore viewed through the disconnect box:



Bearing installed:



Shaft, with its internal bearing, and shift collar installed:



The collar has to slide in through the disco box opening, then the shaft drops down through it. It's awkward, but that's the way they did it.

Now I'm looking for the C-clips... however, they're not typical C-clips. They're more like super heavy duty E-clips... IIRC, they were somewhat spring loaded, which is what kept them in place. I was able to remove them without removing the diff cross-pin, so they weren't what is typically thought of as C-clips.

The C-clip part number is 813 0763, but googling that just turns up my own topic!

[The Dark Side of Will]

I found a bunch of places with kits that show the :water reservoir: part, but no one lists it separately. I got a hold of 4wd.com and the guy knew the part, but also knew they didn't sell it separately.

http://www.shopjeepparts.com/ring-pinion-reverse-rotation-ratio-dana-disconnect-p-6190.html?osCsid=o9k2019mm989h13ep8n0r1dbf2
http://www.shopjeepparts.com/rebuild-bearings-seal-shims-hardware-dana-with-disconnect-p-6178.html
http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-30-Carrier-Shim-Kit.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=514&t_pt=7257&t_pn=CRO83500191
http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-30-Differential-Shim-Kit.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=514&t_pt=9181&t_pn=OAI16512.05
http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-30-Differential-Gear-Set.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=514&t_pt=7961&t_pn=OAI16507.03

Apparently enough people break the disco cover that it's readily available by itself, and the price isn't bad:
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Drivetrain-Differential/Dana-Spicer-Axle-Disconnect-Actuator-Cover.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=101224&t_pn=D%2fS42208

I can just buy that and the appropriate ancillary parts and set up the indicator switch right away.

And a cast iron disco shift fork:
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Drivetrain-Differential/Dana-30-44-Cast-Iron-Shift-Fork.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=101224&t_pn=ALY450100

[The Dark Side of Will]

CarQuest couldn't cross the AMC part number and didn't have a listing for the snap ring.
I swung by a dealer tonight and got the succession of PN's this part has had: AMC 8130763 became Chryco J8130763 which became 4137739 which became 5252775. Of course they don't have any. The counter man was able to give me contact info for a couple different dealerships within a few hundred miles which showed 1 or two in inventory. Before I do that, I tap the endless knowledge of the internet.

Googling these numbers turns up this page:

http://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts-list/1997-jeep-wrangler/front-suspension-drive-differential-front-axle.html

Where the clip appears to be callout #17




While this site doesn't have a photo of the specific part, the combo of the callout in the exploded diagram and the two part numbers the dealership gave me being listed makes me confident enough to put the $5 at risk and order a couple.

A good many of the search results also mention '98 Dodge Dakotas and similar. This appears to be a commonly used, but not commonly replaced, part.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The clips arrived:



The minor diameter of the groove is 0.868, probably a nominal 0.875 and its width is 0.086. The clips are 0.077 thick.
McMaster PN 98420A157 appears to be *EXACTLY* the part that Dana/Spicer used. They even give the nomenclature for that style of E-ring as "poodle rings". McMaster sells a 10 pack for $8.10, which sure is better pricing than the Jeep aftermarket has.
McMaster link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#98420a157/=12t68c9






This is the LEFT output flange bearing.


This is the right output flange installed:

[The Dark Side of Will]

LOL at my luck. This thing just keeps fighting me.

First, with the speedy sleeve the left output flange wouldn't go in all the way, or at least not far enough to install the clip. Originally it went in far enough to contact the cross-pin. I put some feeler gauges in between and came up with 0.054. A machinist my dad knows (a different one this time) *carefully* cut the end of the speedy sleeve back by 0.060". The sleeve is only 0.010" thick, so trying to cut it might have just spun the sleeve on the flange, which would be a bad day and a ruined $27 sleeve.

Here's the result. I'm surprised that the extent of the sleeve is visible:



I tried to install the seal and then drop the flange in, pop in the clip and be done except for the covers, but that was not to be.
The seal I have is the wrong one. After talking with the CarQuest proprietor, we figured out all the right part numbers (AMC & Timken) per the parts diagram and the orignal part mark, but she couldn't get either of them. Besides, none of the dimensions for those parts were right. The seal required is for a 1.375" shaft and 2.440 bore. Neither of the AMC part numbers crossed to a seal with those specs.

I found the Timken seal catalog here: http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/documents/seal-specification-guide.pdf
And was able to look up the diametral specs and find Timken PN 470950, which is the same style #407 as the other two, but made for the right dimensions. One of those will be in tomorrow. I have no idea why the AMC PN's and the original part mark didn't cross to something I can use.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Correct PN 470950 seal installed:



Left output flange installed:


Clips installed:


This is how the right output flange bearing retainer bolts need to be torqued (144 inlbs on a 1/4" socket cap!):



And I disassembled and cleaned the disco housing cover and servo. The servo diaphragm shell is bent and the shaft shaft scrapes like it has a bunch of rust and trash in it. It held vacuum when we started playing with it, but now doesn't, so now I'm in the hunt for a new actuator.
I haven't done a lot of research yet, but I don't know if the AMC Eagle actuator is the same as the one used on Jeeps. It wasn't much longer after Chrysler bought AMC that Jeeps with disconnects started using an electric switch to verify the position of the disconnect. The AMC system is entirely vacuum operated. The 2WD/AWD switch inside the vehicle is simply a valve that applies vacuum to the axle disconnect actuator. The stem of that actuator includes a valve that opens when the actuator reaches its end position. That second valve applies vacuum to the transfer case 2WD/AWD selector servo, so the axle engages before the T-case does. In the Jeeps, the vacuum servo operates (I *@$$ume* via a solenoid valve) and the position switch indicates when the servo has done its job, presumably enabling another solenoid to operate the T-case servo. I don't *think* Jeeps had axle disconnects before Chrysler took over, so I'm not expecting to find Jeep parts to replace the AMC part. I may need to convert to the later Jeep electro-vacuum system due to parts availability.




Eagle's Den forum topics on the actuator:
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=39361.0
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=37665.0
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=40936.0 (I replied in 2013?)

The Dorman 600-200 actuator is for Cherokees and such, but Dorman may have a replacement Eagle actuator for me to find: http://www.dormanproducts.com/itemdetail.aspx?ProductID=28487&SEName=600-200

A thread showing bits of another 4.0 swap: http://theamcforum.com/forum/amc-eagle-front-axle-diff-cover-removal_topic42455.html

Comparison between Jeep and Eagle disco covers: http://wiki.amcevolution.com/index.php/Front_Axle_Lock
If the covers aren't the same depth, then I may not be able to swap the Jeep parts right on like I was hoping... Do I want to extend the shift fork if the Jeep cover is deeper than the Eagle cover?

Reasonably cool video of an Eagle SX/4 in action. He still has the independent front suspension for the first half of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXC5IUOdFk

[The Dark Side of Will]

Here's the later model Jeep axle disconnect actuator next to the Eagle actuator. The 4 port Eagle actuator includes a secondary valve which connects the two ports on the shank once the actuator hits the end of its travel and the axle is connected.
The Jeep actuator connects the port on the shank to the vacuum applied to the gold side of the diaphragm when connecting the axle... so it does exactly the same thing as the Eagle actuator, except with one fewer hose.
Both actuators break the connection to the "output" port on the shank when the actuator retracts to disconnect the axle, by putting vacuum to the plastic end cap over the diaphragm.



And the Jeep actuator went together with the Eagle disco housing cover and shift fork just as well as stock.



Here's the dern thing installed while I fill the pumpkin with 3 pints of 80W90 Amsoil synthetic gear oil



Gear oil:



WTF? The ratio tag doesn't fit anymore:



I didn't grab a pic of it tonight, but the diff is all buttoned back up and hanging off the side of the engine like it should. I'm stoked that's finally in place.

[amcfool1]

hi, good work! Let us know how the Jeep vac disconnect actually works. You may have found a solution to a longstanding Eagle problem. When I repaired my first Eagle, waaaay back in the mid 90s. The vac disconnect motors were still available, so I bought one of each, and even then, they were not cheap, about $125./each. good luck, gz

[The Dark Side of Will]

Do Eagle Dana 30's have 27 spline side gears?

I'm about to order an Eaton E-Locker and want to make sure I have the right part.

[djm3452004]

Hi All --

After reading this thread and several Jeep Dana 30 pinion seal replacement articles online, I had a question regarding changing the front pinion seal on our Dana 30 IFS axles.
 
For my situation, I have no reason to remove the diff. case or pinion as the bearings are fine, just want to replace the pinion seal.
 
If there is no crush sleeve or spacers to worry about as this thread mentioned (12/25/2015), do I count the unused threads on the pinion and mark the nut, pinion and yoke during disassembly, then ensure that these marks line up again when retorqueing the nut back down to spec. after the pinion seal is replaced?

I would have loved to have started this as a new topic but the CleanTalk filter seemed to have a problem with something I’d typed above and wouldn’t let me post.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts --
David

[Taylor]

Great and informative thread.
As for the clean talk spam filter. I will start a separate thread specifically for that issue.
But for now I do think helps more than hurts.
Taylor

[derf]

Hi All --

After reading this thread and several Jeep Dana 30 pinion seal replacement articles online, I had a question regarding changing the front pinion seal on our Dana 30 IFS axles.
 
For my situation, I have no reason to remove the diff. case or pinion as the bearings are fine, just want to replace the pinion seal.
 
If there is no crush sleeve or spacers to worry about as this thread mentioned (12/25/2015), do I count the unused threads on the pinion and mark the nut, pinion and yoke during disassembly, then ensure that these marks line up again when retorqueing the nut back down to spec. after the pinion seal is replaced?

I would have loved to have started this as a new topic but the CleanTalk filter seemed to have a problem with something I’d typed above and wouldn’t let me post.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts --
David

Every time I replace a pinion seal, I break out the torque wrench and torque the nut back to spec.  That's the single best way to be sure you get the right preload on the bearings.  Doing it any other way has the potential to be way off.

[djm3452004]

"Every time I replace a pinion seal, I break out the torque wrench and torque the nut back to spec.  That's the single best way to be sure you get the right preload on the bearings.  Doing it any other way has the potential to be way off. -- derf"


Thanks for your reply! 

So there are no crush sleeves or spacers to worry about replacing to set the preload since I'm not removing the pinion/diff. case, correct? 

I was under the impression from looking around online that some Dana 30s did have the crush sleeves that *could* require replacement, but it doesn't seem to be the case for our Eagle differentials...

Thank you!

David

[derf]

"Every time I replace a pinion seal, I break out the torque wrench and torque the nut back to spec.  That's the single best way to be sure you get the right preload on the bearings.  Doing it any other way has the potential to be way off. -- derf"


Thanks for your reply! 

So there are no crush sleeves or spacers to worry about replacing to set the preload since I'm not removing the pinion/diff. case, correct? 

I was under the impression from looking around online that some Dana 30s did have the crush sleeves that *could* require replacement, but it doesn't seem to be the case for our Eagle differentials...

Thank you!

David

I don't believe they switched to a crush sleeve until well after the Eagle was discontinued.  I did have one on my 2012 Wrangler but that's a completely redesigned differential.

However, even if it does have a crush sleeve, the torque spec isn't enough to crush it any more than it's already been crushed.  You have to put a good 250-300 ft-lbs or more to get the sleeve to crush.  The torque spec for the pinion nut comes in well below that for the pinion nut once you have the preload dialed in.

In fact, when I did the gear swap on the Wrangler, we disassembled and reassembled it to finish it up after crushing the sleeve.  We used the old pinion nut from the other gear set to crush the sleeve.  Took that off, put the pinion seal in and used the new pinion nut to finish it.  Torqued it to spec and the preload was just about exactly the same.

Get a good torque wrench, torque it to spec.

It helps to have a big pipe wrench on the pinion yoke to hold it in place while you're torquing the nut.

[djm3452004]

Awesome, no problem on using a torque wrench.

And thanks for the responses derf, I appreciate it!

David