Front End Alignment Issues/Questions

[drock87]

In the Spirit (ok, maybe pun intended) of this years meet in Colorado, I need to start prepping my car for the 4,000 mile journey.

My biggest concern right now is my front end. The car steers great and feels good, but I have had two different alignments done since the car got repaired from the accident. The first guy didn't do a great job, but the second shop I took it to did much better. However, he said that he could not get the camber and caster anywhere near right.

Here are the results of the alignment.


He suggested replacing the "offset" control arm bushing to see what that would do (does that translate to upper or lower?).  It is a tire shop and the front end mechanic there seemed quite knowlegable....and I know they got my brothers '93 Honda right after nobody seemed able to.

Also, any other suggestions? This is the only thing keeping the car from being drivable enough for the trip.....the front tires, especially passenger (side hit) have gotten pretty chewed up from being driven like this for the last 8,000 miles.

[AMC of Houston]

Well,  the caster setting looks OK to me.   Was your guy saying the bushings were worn out??    Which ones??   Usually the lowers go bad first, and will cause quite a bit of negative camber issues.  If that's what he was implying, I'd replace them.

[drock87]

Well,  the caster setting looks OK to me.   Was your guy saying the bushings were worn out??    Which ones??   Usually the lowers go bad first, and will cause quite a bit of negative camber issues.  If that's what he was implying, I'd replace them.

Well, the chart says the caster should be between 1.5 and 3.5 degrees. It is at 4.7.  I need to go talk to him again about which ones...but if you look at my chart, it looks like I started to write 'lower' and instead wrote 'offset'. Why I did that? Who knows!  I know he said they were worn, but could not guarantee that they would fix the entire alignment, but it was his first suggestion to start.

[DownwardFlame]

Well,  the caster setting looks OK to me.   Was your guy saying the bushings were worn out??    Which ones??   Usually the lowers go bad first, and will cause quite a bit of negative camber issues.  If that's what he was implying, I'd replace them.

Well, the chart says the caster should be between 1.5 and 3.5 degrees. It is at 4.7.  I need to go talk to him again about which ones...but if you look at my chart, it looks like I started to write 'lower' and instead wrote 'offset'. Why I did that? Who knows!  I know he said they were worn, but could not guarantee that they would fix the entire alignment, but it was his first suggestion to start.

Most of the time, as long as caster is close to equal side to side its not s major concern as it wont cause tire wear. Unequal caster can cause a pull though. The most important thing is to get the camber in spec so your tires will survive.

[carnuck]

The rear measurements are wrong because there is NO camber change with a straight axle rear UNLESS the tube is bent. Same with rear toe-in. If the lower control arm bushings are not oily and your coil springs are original and saggy, then the cure won't be bushings. The caster will change with the front lifting too. You will need to back off the strut arms to fix the caster issue (I think. It's been awhile since I trained on an alignment machine)

It appears the toe-in was re-adjusted within spec. It had toe-out which would have made it steer all over the road. First shop had no clue if tehy set it up that way. Your tires were scrubbing as you drove down the road, wearing them fast and wasting fuel. Too bad you didn't swap the front and rear tires before the align because the excess wear from the previous misalignment leaves them worn unevenly, which affects how it drives afterwards.

[drock87]

See my comments below...it seems we agree that the control arm bushings could fix this theoretically. ...Anything else I need to consider? Remember that this thing was pretty much dead to the world before CaptSpillane brought it back to life for me. 

The car pulls to the right, and the steering wheel is 2 and 8 o'clock going straight. I just talked to another tech at work who said that my tires might just be so jacked by this point that those are making it do that, not the adjustments.

The rear measurements are wrong because there is NO camber change with a straight axle rear UNLESS the tube is bent. Same with rear toe-in. If the lower control arm bushings are not oily and your coil springs are original and saggy, then the cure won't be bushings. The caster will change with the front lifting too. You will need to back off the strut arms to fix the caster issue (I think. It's been awhile since I trained on an alignment machine)

The car has brand new front springs and shocks. I talked with a tech at work and he didn't have much concern for the caster, but he did for the camber....he agreed that if the lower control arm bushing is indeed bad, it could fix it...especially by offsetting it (THAT's why I wrote that)

It appears the toe-in was re-adjusted within spec. It had toe-out which would have made it steer all over the road. First shop had no clue if tehy set it up that way. Your tires were scrubbing as you drove down the road, wearing them fast and wasting fuel. Too bad you didn't swap the front and rear tires before the align because the excess wear from the previous misalignment leaves them worn unevenly, which affects how it drives afterwards.

My front passenger tire is worn real bad in only 8,000 miles, and the driver is wearing poorly, but not terrible since that one has closer to 15 or 20k on it. 

[carnuck]

I wonder if one of the upper control arms is bent?

[AMC of Houston]

And a decent alignment guy should be able to get you a straight steering wheel when he sets the toe; unless something is maybe hosed up with the steering linkage or if the gearbox coupler is off a tooth or five.

[BenM]

The rear axle looks like it's a problem of spring placement, hence the Thrust Angle. That could also be causing the car to feel like it's pulling to one side, as it will "crab" down the road a little. New bushings on the rear springs may help the problem if they're worn out.

Caster problems are usually the strut rod bushings, and I agree they aren't very severe except in feel. Caster is what returns your wheel to straight ahead when you let go of the wheel.

Since the spring sits on the upper arm it tends to wear more than the lower arm, but it makes the lower arm easier to test. Put a wood block between the upper arm and the frame and lift the front. You should be able to feel any wear in the lower arm parts by hand since it's unloaded and not fully extended.

The wood block is part of the standard service procedure for ball joint replacement on Eagles/Concords/etc. and won't hurt a thing.