How much rust on the frame is too much?

[trout]

The 88 I recently picked up had a bit more rust than I initially realized. It's pretty good except in the front on the driver's side. Both the floor pan has a nice sized hole and so does a spot on the frame.

I have no experience in this area so it kind of scares me. I know the floor is easily repaired by someone who can weld, but what about the frame? I know in some cases it can be repaired but I don't know what the point of no return is. I will hope to have a picture of the area soon, but it's a spot in the wheel well, in between where the spring is and where it turns down, it's about 3" long and 1.5" tall. Is this repairable?

[thereverendbill]

to be honest anything is repairable it just boils down to your skills or your funds to pay someone to do the work.  the first thing you should do is take a screw driver or a pick and see how much of the metal is compromised (cause if you weld a nice patch on paper thin metal your doing nothing but creating another problem)

[mach1mustang351]

The more eagles we allow to go away because of rust the less eagles there are in the world... not trying to make anyone feel guilty but it's a fact.  I am trying to save another right now

[captspillane]

The subframe can totally disintergrate and the car will be fine in the sense that the unibody will still keep the car together. The inner fenders are considerably more structurally important than the subframe. The frame on an Eagle is a totally different thing then a truck or Jeep. It will not fold in two no matter how bad it is. The same is true for rocker panels. If a rocker panel isn't present on a truck like my C10, the entire cab seperates and the door no longer closes. On an Eagle its really just there to clip on a piece of plastic.

Don't worry much about structural integrity, just worry about getting it slapped together to visually look okay for a safety inspection. Worry about the strut rod bushing. Realize that doing the job right and welding it properly is the only way to keep it from getting worse. If you take a shortcut now it will continue to get worse.

[priya]

The frame on an Eagle is a totally different thing then a truck or Jeep. It will not fold in two no matter how bad it is. The same is true for rocker panels. If a rocker panel isn't present on a truck like my C10, the entire cab seperates and the door no longer closes. On an Eagle its really just there to clip on a piece of plastic.
Don't worry much about structural integrity, just worry about getting it slapped together to visually look okay for a safety inspection.

That's not the case.  The rocker panel is structurally integral to the safety of a unibody car as it is part of what keeps the passenger cabin from deforming in an accident.  My husband does safety inspections and if a rocker panel on a unibody car is rusty it will not pass a safety inspection.  You can slap it together and hope to hide the inadequate "repairs" from the safety inspector but its certainly going to fail if he finds it which is quite likely.

If I understand you correctly the type of rust you're describing is quite minor and can be relatively easily repaired.

[Whuntmore]

I would also agree with Priya, but check over those spots.  what may look like a 'donut' sized hole usually ends up being bigger after you've ground to good, solid, proper thinkness metal.

Anything is repairable, depending on skills and time, and how much effort you want to put into it.  but I see your point - this is (possibly) beyond your skills, and seems worrisome.

When you say 'a spot' we talking like a quarter sized hole, donut sized hole or can you crawl thru it? 

it would be great if you would post some really good pics of the areas.

[trout]

thank you for all the quick responses.

no corners will be cut, I know I wont be doing the frame myself.

So I should start by just knocking all the loose stuff free right? It's not gonna make it worse I take it. Then I can assess it and start saving to have someone fix the frame.

The rockers are solid, I had knocked them real good before buying it, all the damage on the bottom sits on the inside of the rail. It seems it had rusted from the inside out.

Pics will be posted tonight.

[Whuntmore]

check the inside as well as the outside of the rockers.

also check the 'dog legs' of the frame.

[thereverendbill]

by knocking the loose stuff off around the rusted through areas you are seeing how much of a job is going to be needed to fix the car.  There are shops out there that will just weld a hole shut, charge you a boat load, and then a few months to a few years from now the patch that they welded in falls off cause there wasn't enough solid material around the patch to hold.

If you are going to pay to have the job done make sure that you trust the repair facility or person that is doing the work and never be afraid to ask to see a simular job that they have completed or talk to another customer.  Not to totaly scare you off but I have in person seen repairs done to a unibody frame where the frame was rotten into 2 pieces and the shop took a broom handle and slid it into the unirail and then just used body filler to make up the space difference and make it look like a good repair (if the paint wouldn't have chipped over the filler it would have not been known until the car folded in half)

Another tip I can give you is to make sure to check in on the progress of the car or have them send you a few pictures after each stage     

[trout]

so looking at it again it seems there's two holes here that need to be addressed. The one right one the frame rail and the one right above it.

[trout]

[captspillane]

I consider that one not worth saving because of the hole right below the bolt for upper bolt of the control arm bracket. The amount of time and money it will take you to fix it is not cost effective when the average selling price of a solid Eagle is so low. I've seen quite a few people spend months trying to fix an Eagle only to have a very nice one appear for sale. You are better off being patient and keeping an eye out for a nicer one. Indeed the cost of repairing it is more than the cost of a plane ticket out to another state and the gas needed to drive back.

I also consider that one mortally wounded because I see the upper control arm in the first picture. There is severe scale at the bushing. The scale there will expand and put incredible pressure on the bolt, which is also extremely rusty. I've seen ones in better shape that absolutely could not be removed without extensive work with a grinder and further damage to the hole. You will likely destroy the car in an attempt to remove those. That control arm and likely every other front suspension part will need to be immediately removed and discarded. They are not worth repairing.

Walk back to the rear of the car. Look at the bolt in the very front of the rear leaf spring. If your car is this rusty the thin sheet metal used to bracket that bolt is probably gone. That is another major obstacle to saving this car.

If the car has sentimental reasons or a very unusual body style, then it is worth saving. I have a Kammback in worse shape that I'm still fixing regardless, simply because Kammbacks are extremely rare. Realize that you will likely need to purchase a cheap rust free Station Wagon to supply all the front end parts you'll need to finish your project.

The metal you are looking at is in the shape of the lowercase letter "d." There is one very thin piece of metal forming the long side and the bottom of the d, then another thin piece of metal forming the circle of the d. Inside of the circle is another thin piece of corrugated metal in the shape of the math symbol "pi." To fix it you will need to cut it open and replace the corrugated spacer inside before installing new sheet metal across the entire side of the subframe. In my case I am doing this by making pieces of pipe that act like spacers, running bolts through the pipe and through holes in the outside sheets of metal, then welding the bolts at the end to tie it all together permaneantly. If the top of the "d" was rusted through it wouldn't be a big deal. That's just flat sheet metal. In your car the center of the D is rotted through, which is considerably worse. It can't be fixed without cutting it open and getting to the support in the center.

A daily driven severly rotted AMC Eagle is ten times as safe as a perfectly restored CJ7 and a thousand times safer than a motorcycle.

[trout]

Thanks for the honest response.

I had also been working on this mostly in the dark, literally, and yesterday I had a chance to do some work under it during the day. The more I poke around the worse I see it. A similar hole exists on the passenger side, as well as a hole right in front of where the cross member attaches, on the driver side rot has all but made a hole along the entire rail in front of the spring as well. It seems it would just need the entire front sub frame rebuilt from scratch.

I've already started the process of finding another one to work on.

[jim]

Where are you?  I just happen to know where there a couple of wagons that are now capable of being daily drivers.  If you want a project the one with the new reman motor and rebuilt tranny and transfer case needs a paint job.
These are in Arkansas.  I would offer to drive them to you but don't have the time and would need transportation money back home.

[trout]

I'm in Connecticut. There's a few up here I'm looking at. How much does a running and relatively rust free one go for in your area?