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Author Topic: Help me put my wiring back together  (Read 12336 times)

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Offline Smacaroni

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Help me put my wiring back together
« on: July 25, 2011, 08:52:00 AM »
Hi all. New member here. Aside from being a new member, I don't own an AMC Eagle, but I'm running out of places to look for help. I own an 82 Wagoneer with the 258. I've been working on it for about three months now and most of it's going along well.
With one exception which I can't seem to find any help. A piece of the underhood wiring was laying on the exhaust manifold and got all nice and toasty and broke apart.
This connects the main engine harness to the temperature switch, maybe something possibly to do with the EGR valve and maybe some other coolant related sender that's not the gauge sender. That's in the intake manifold. I have no idea how the wires go back together again and wiring diagrams are of little help since the colors have faded and someone pieced together one with a solid red wire.
This is what's left:

This is what it connects to on the harness:

The white plug is where the O2 sensor connects to.

If anyone can help me identify that part, I'd really appreciate it. If you know where I can get one, even better.

Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 10:30:18 AM »
25 views and not a single reply? I'm almost positive the I6 AMC engine from 80+ would have this bit of wiring. Anyone willing to pop it off and take a photo? Please? Pretty please?

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 11:00:59 AM »
Your best bet will be the full size Jeep forum. Good luck. http://www.ifsja.org/
1986 AMC Eagle Wagon 4.2L/4.0L head, AW4,NP242, Chrysler 8.25" rear.
1981 AMC Eagle Wagon As Seen On TV  Lost In Transmission


 

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Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 11:10:20 AM »
Thanks, but nearly all those guys have V8s and I've been through about a dozen V8 Jeeps at salvage yards with no luck finding anything that resembles that wiring. Even a fresh arrival that still had the grill and wasn't even parked where it belongs.
Talked to a local Chrysler dealer who was an AMC dealer back in the day, no luck.
Ebay nothing, but it doesn't help that I don't know what it's called.
As I said, wiring diagrams are great, if you have colors other than cream, black and the occasional green.

You guys are pretty much my only hope at this point.

Offline ammachine390

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 11:21:36 AM »
Can you take a picture of the sending unit?
Dan
1981 AMC Concord DL 258 Auto

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Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 01:05:51 PM »
Sure thing, if I can. Currently the Jeep is at the mechanic for inspection, as long as it's still outside and not in the garage since he'll be closed when I get there.

This is a photo I have access to right now, slightly behind the front coolant hose nipple on the intake manifold is the temperature switch, it's got two wires on it. Directly behind that is part of the vacuum switch. You can see the two-wire weatherproof connector as well.
The other sending unit is not obvious in the picture and I'll get a photo of it tonight.


This photo the PS pump and some other stuff has been removed during my 4.0 head swap:


I'll also get a photo from the side.

Offline ammachine390

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 11:54:20 PM »
On the emission control sticker does it say that this Jeep was built for California? Also, does your carburetor have a stepper motor?

Hope this helps, on the ECM connector, the pin numbers should be labeled. Hopefully you can use an ohmmeter and figure out where each wire goes.


Also, here are what the pins in the diagnostic connector connect to.


Also, did the 4.0 head swap make a large difference in power and gas mileage?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:22:36 AM by ammachine390 »
Dan
1981 AMC Concord DL 258 Auto

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Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 07:39:39 AM »
That diagnostic connector diagram will be helpful, maybe not now, but definitely in the future, thank you very much.
I should be able to track down at least the temp switch from that. Do you know how they're supposed to work, such as if the motor is running and the switch is open, would it be 12V and when it closes it's 0V? Vice versa?

Yes, it does have the stepper motor on the Carter BBD, I'm not entirely sure if it works.
I don't know if it's a California model, I doubt it. No stickers survived and most of the stamped plates are not very legible thanks to a Maaco paint job by the PO. I stripped the paint, this was a BAAAAAAAAD paint job. I'm surprised they didn't paint over the chrome it's that bad.

A little history, my grandmother bought this Jeep for me back when I was 16. The only major problem I had was one of the transmission cooling lines sprung a leak and emptied the tranny before I knew about it. This caused the 727 to cook itself.
That was repaired and later I went to school the next county over, seeing as this beast gets about 13 MPG IIRC, I opted for a more economical Subaru hatchback that got 27 MPG. The Jeep sat and while I intended to sell it, some family issues interfered and it never happened. It's last inspection sticker ran out in 1996.
Here it is 16 years later, I've got kids, we all ride dirt bikes and go camping.
Believe it or not, we used a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am as our hauler. However, kids grow up and cars grow old. With 232,000 miles on the Pontiac, the tired old engine was struggling to pull three youth/adult bikes and a "mini", four people and gear. Not to mention packing for a trip was a choreographed dance like puzzle solution which the only benefit was the ability to build a "wall" of sleeping bags or packs of clothing between the two kids. My daughter who was riding the mini grows like a weed and is now as tall as her mom at 11 years old. She's now riding a youth sized bike which is just slightly smaller than a small adult model, in fact, many women ride this size bike and it fits them well.

It was time to move to something better suited to hauling a trailer and gear and something with more space on the inside since riding areas in PA are pretty far from where I live and we often ride out of state.

Enter the Jeep, again. However, it's been a long journey because I didn't mothball it properly when I parked her all those years ago. If you're interested, the complete journal is here: http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10152657 If you're into restorations, or as I'm calling this one a "Rust-o-ration", I think you'll appreciate it.

The reason I did the head swap was because when I attempted to tune the carb using a vacuum gauge (I'll admit, I'm not very well versed in this, but following the guideline "try to achieve the highest possible vacuum at idle"), the gauge went berserk: (bad animation, although accurate, I intend to make a better one later)

I know this means several possibilities, but they're all related to the head, most likely requiring refreshing the valves, and I doubted that it was something as simple as a loose spark plug.
One cylinder only had 90PSI of compression as well.
Also, the valve train was very noisy which was initially blamed on clogged lifters.
So I decided since I needed to pull the head, I may as well upgrade it.
(this is also detailed in the thread linked above, page six: post #58)
Long story short, I found my valve train noise and most likely my funky vacuum was due not to a valve problem, but several bent push rods, which I'm keeping my fingers crossed will arrive at PepBoys this week. While I already had purchased the head and most of the related items, even throwing new push rods in is no guaranteed solution since what ever bent them in the first place would likely bend the replacements too, push rods aren't exactly the strongest components.
It definitely makes more power, starts easier and is quieter (I have the 0.060" too short 4.0L push rods in so I could get it to the inspection station). Unfortunately, I can't credit anything to the head swap since my old valve train was so screwed up. Others have reported a 40 hp increase if you do the head and fuel injection. I personally believe that the head and exhaust manifold alone would make a huge increase over stock because the design of the manifold is so much better, the combustion chamber appears to be smaller than the 258 and most of all, the valves appear to be the perfect maximum size (again, if you're into this, you know that there's such a thing as valves being too big).
Also, compression on all the cylinders is within reason, 145-160 PSI.

I'd definitely give this a shot on an Eagle 258 or 4.2L motor. I'm not sure if the Eagles ever came with the 232, but if they did, I'd research the swap for that too.
The one thing I'd be concerned about, not having researched this for an Eagle at all, is the exhaust after the manifold or header - I don't think you'll luck out and be able to make the baby Cherokee down pipe work, so you should plan on a trip to an exhaust shop after you've buttoned everything up. I'll be more than happy to share anything I've learned from the head swap if you'd like to know.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:49:19 AM by Smacaroni »

Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 08:35:24 AM »
Forgot to add that my mechanic has it in his garage, so I couldn't get a photo.

But here are some I stole from ebay:

http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!B-tEeKg!mk~$(KGrHqUOKoYEz!t)k(BfBM9bf9JftQ~~_12.JPG

I'm guessing the red wire is the EGR related wire which I'm now reasonably sure does not belong in my wiring harness issue - where it goes, will be a mystery.
Next to the red wire is a brass plug that has a post on it, this is one of the senders/switches in question.
On the other side of where the carb mounts is a piece that I'm pretty sure is the temperature switch. It has two wires into a single plug. In the middle is the vacuum temperature switch which is of no concern to me, I've bypassed most of the vacuum mess, so many parts were missing and broken that it's not worth the hassle to me.

Not very good, but another angle, seller cut the wires off?

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqR,!iYE3dK4GflJBOFKyLlot!~~0_12.JPG

The good news is since I'm now somewhat sure that the EGR wire isn't involved, the probablility of wiring this correctly by chance have dropped from I think 24:1 or 72:1 (calculated it once, forgot) to 6:1, much, much better odds.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:38:49 AM by Smacaroni »

Offline GRONK

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 11:26:32 AM »
The easiest thing for you to do is to do the N u t t e r B y p a s s.  This will eliminate the need for 90% of the under hood wiring.
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Offline eagle503

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 12:03:43 PM »

This link mite be of some use to you if you plan on keeping the stock carter bbd fuel feedback system It explains how and when all the components should operate.
http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm
 but you should look into putting a motorcraft 2100 - 2150 on your motor. I did the motorcraft swap and now all those sensors and switches are just plugging holes or running gauges.It cleans up the engine compartment a lot to.

This is the only plug I found on my harness that looks like your toasted one it is close to the ICM like in your pic but on the Eagles it is on the passenger fender well.


It was plugged into The 10" and 4" Hg vacuum switches which look like this.


And this is a shot of my "back dated engine"


Talk to GRONK about the motor craft he will get you set up rite.
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Offline ammachine390

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 12:33:41 PM »
The red wire on the intake manifold is the power wire for the intake manifold heater.

Since yours is an 82, the temperature switch should have 3 pins.  When the engine is cold, the 1 pin grounds itself through the intake manifold, which completes the circuit and turns on the intake manifold heater. When the water temperature hits 135 degrees, the other 2 pins get connected to each other, signaling the computer that the engine is warm. Also, at 135 degrees, the first pin, ungrounds turning off the heater.
Dan
1981 AMC Concord DL 258 Auto

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Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 01:06:09 PM »
The easiest thing for you to do is to do the N u t t e r B y p a s s.  This will eliminate the need for 90% of the under hood wiring.
I'll do you one better, baby Cherokee engine and fuel injection transplant with the 258 crank for a 4.5L stroker on the cheap! (well, cheaper than many other bigger displacement transplants.)
Perhaps next year I plan to find a wrecked XJ with a running motor, pull the motor, complete harness (I know, total PITA), all electric bits and sell the remainder. The motor will get freshened and if I can't find a decent 258 crank before it's time to do the install, yank the crank out of mine and slap it in there, then start the probably month long process of rewiring mine.

BTW, if any of the IFSJA guys contact you re: a different carb, it's my fault. See http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?p=1321636#post1321636

The red wire on the intake manifold is the power wire for the intake manifold heater.
Super helpful.
Since yours is an 82, the temperature switch should have 3 pins.  When the engine is cold, the 1 pin grounds itself through the intake manifold, which completes the circuit and turns on the intake manifold heater. When the water temperature hits 135 degrees, the other 2 pins get connected to each other, signaling the computer that the engine is warm. Also, at 135 degrees, the first pin, ungrounds turning off the heater.
You rock, you totally rock. Can I throw eggs yet? Cause I'll toss some your way for sure, as soon as I figure out how.

This link mite be of some use to you if you plan on keeping the stock carter bbd fuel feedback system It explains how and when all the components should operate.
http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm
 but you should look into putting a motorcraft 2100 - 2150 on your motor. I did the motorcraft swap and now all those sensors and switches are just plugging holes or running gauges.It cleans up the engine compartment a lot to.

This is the only plug I found on my harness that looks like your toasted one it is close to the ICM like in your pic but on the Eagles it is on the passenger fender well.


It was plugged into The 10" and 4" Hg vacuum switches which look like this.


And this is a shot of my "back dated engine"


Talk to GRONK about the motor craft he will get you set up rite.
That dual vacuum solenoid thing is up on the passenger side fire wall on mine, but that's not where it was from the factory, somewhere on the passenger's side for sure, the wires' too long to be elsewhere, except maybe on the valve cover.

It looks like a heck of a mess now because to be honest, I've gotten kind of worn out with the various unexpected problems making this take way too long. When this happens I tend to get a lot less picky about organization.
There's only three components of the vacuum system left on mine:

The vacuum from the manifold advances the distributor. It also opens the purge valve on the vapor canister using a 200? second vacuum delay.  I realize that this may be better on the ported vacuum port, but this was convenient. I inadvertently broke off the "do not remove" cover from the canister, so that may be moot.
The last thing is part of this issue is the three piece vacuum solenoid bank, one controls some sort of idle change cylinder on the carb. I know for a fact that this plug has something to do with it because as I was probing it, you could hear it click and feel it click if you put your hand on the formerly driver's side solenoid of the bank of three when you hit the correct pin. Now that Ammachine390 explained it all, it makes a heck of a lot more sense.

This is the proper vacuum diagram, but so much of my stuff was broken or missing, it would be humpty dumpty after the King's Men found him.


Offline ammachine390

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 01:29:02 PM »
The last thing is part of this issue is the three piece vacuum solenoid bank, one controls some sort of idle change cylinder on the carb.

The one solenoid all the way to the driver's side controls the idle speed. That should activate when the air cleaner temperature switch is below 60 degrees.

The one in the middle controls the air injection diverter valve. The computer controls this solenoid and activates when the ECM wants to divert air from the air pump to the atmosphere. I think it activates during deceleration

The one all the way to the passenger side controls the air switch. When the solenoid is energized, vacuum does not pass thorugh, and air from the air pump flows to the air injection manifold. When the solenoid turns off, vacuum passes to the air switch and air flows to catalytic converter.  When the engine is already warm, and is started, this solenoid should be energized for the first 30 seconds that the engine is running, providing air to the air injection manifold. After 30 seconds, it turns off, and air flows to the catalytic converter.
Dan
1981 AMC Concord DL 258 Auto

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Offline Smacaroni

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Re: Help me put my wiring back together
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 01:38:04 PM »
Ahh... somebody took the air injection pump off on mine a long time ago, I don't think little Smacaroni did it, so it was probably the PO.

But yeah, the first one you listed is the only one I have hooked up. But I don't know if it does anything right now since the temperature switches aren't connected.

I've got it hanging in front of the dual sol-vac by the blower motor since the baby Cherokee valve cover doesn't have any place to mount it like the plastic 258 valve cover did.
Right about here ---------------------- \/


But yes, the other two are disconnected because even if it did have an air pump, the tube from the engine compartment to the cat was rusted full of holes.
I did however find that this tube is the perfect sleeve for putting 7/16" bolts into the 1/2" bolt holes on the head, you just need to thread them with a 7/16-14? tap to make them twist on easily. Or you can buy custom made spacers from some company online, I think I read they run $33 for four of them.

 

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