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Author Topic: New here and looking at two eagles  (Read 19292 times)

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Offline OverKnight

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2011, 11:20:03 PM »
Thanks, Ben.  The Jeep vacuum motor the NAPA dealer had went for about $130.00.  In this car, I think there's a vacuum leak either in the dash switch or in the vacuum hoses leading to it.  I'm guessing that until I fix this, it will be difficult to check if the 4WD is operating correctly.

Thanks again.
"I shall pass through this world but once.  Any good I can do, or any kindness that I can show any human being, let me do it now and not defer it, for I shall not pass this way again."
- Stephen Grellet

Offline shanebo

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2011, 02:15:26 AM »
All I can tell ya is just stay away from the ones that have the frame rail delete option....The floor board delete option also seems to be popular on alot of models,  especially on the 1980-88's 

;D...best of luck and welcome!!!.

Shane
AMC, serving up heaping helpings of AWESOME since 1954

Offline BenM

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2011, 12:43:29 PM »
Yeah, you don't want to try to keep it in 4wd with the vacuum leak going, it's hard on the engine, plus if it partially shifts it could bounce out of gear and into "neutral".

If you can hear it from near the switch it's likely not the motor. They were on the transfer case and front axle, and you don't often hear vacuum noises except when it's drawing through an opening. It doesn't take much to dampen that sound. I would just pull the switch out and have a look to see everything is solidly attached to the back of it.
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Offline shanebo

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2011, 10:58:39 PM »
The air lines to the 4x4 are thin hard plastic ones much like the kind used on semi trucks...just down sized. Ive never actually had any trouble with the hoses it was at the the little rubber junctions or at the rubber connectors at the vaccum motors or switch.

this junction here is completely dry rotted, hard to tell with all the caked on oil..

Here is that vaccum motor on the front axle. another place where my rubber connectors had dry rotted and prevented 4x4 engagement.

These bad connectors are an easy fix...but very troublesome if not repaired.
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Offline OverKnight

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2011, 08:51:06 AM »
Thank you, Shanebo, especially for the pictures; very helpful.  I'm assuming these plastic lines and rubber connectors are fused together, i.e., you can't get just the rubber connector; am I correct?  Are these (the plastic lines and/or rubber connectors) available?

Thanks again.
"I shall pass through this world but once.  Any good I can do, or any kindness that I can show any human being, let me do it now and not defer it, for I shall not pass this way again."
- Stephen Grellet

Offline OverKnight

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2011, 11:03:33 PM »
Joe and I looked at the '87 Eagle again today, and here's the update:
The Good:
•   No rust was found on the frame or undercarriage.
•   Transmission feels better after adding one quart (although it’s still maybe ½ pint low).
•   Will spin both rear tires on gravel; this tell me it’s got a posi-traction rear axle that works, and that the transmission and torque converter are probably okay.

The Bad:
•   4WD definitely doesn’t work at this time; the front wheels didn’t spin on gravel.
•   Right-front outer CV boot is torn.
•   Right mirror is cracked and remote adjusted doesn’t work.
•   Parking brake is frozen.
•   Rear windshield wiper doesn’t work.
•   Right front door power lock doesn’t work.
•   Water leaks into interior; it appears to be from the wiper motor panel.
•   It's got a dual exhaust system.  I've never heard of this on a straight six; is this stock?
•   Marginal quality repaint.  I didn't see any signs of collision damage or body fillers, but there's a lot of orange peel.

So, I think this car has a relatively solid body, chassis, engine and drivetrain, with a lot of relatively minor but annoying, labor-intensive things to fix.  Joe and I need to decide if this is something we want to tackle, and if so, decide what kind of offer to make.
"I shall pass through this world but once.  Any good I can do, or any kindness that I can show any human being, let me do it now and not defer it, for I shall not pass this way again."
- Stephen Grellet

Offline Whuntmore

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2011, 11:18:53 PM »
Joe and I looked at the '87 Eagle again today, and here's the update:
The Good:
•   No rust was found on the frame or undercarriage.
•   Transmission feels better after adding one quart (although it’s still maybe ½ pint low).
•   Will spin both rear tires on gravel; this tell me it’s got a posi-traction rear axle that works, and that the transmission and torque converter are probably okay.

That's great to hear.


Quote
The Bad:
•   4WD definitely doesn’t work at this time; the front wheels didn’t spin on gravel.
•   Right-front outer CV boot is torn.
•   Right mirror is cracked and remote adjusted doesn’t work.
•   Parking brake is frozen.
•   Rear windshield wiper doesn’t work.
•   Right front door power lock doesn’t work.
•   Water leaks into interior; it appears to be from the wiper motor panel.
•   It's got a dual exhaust system.  I've never heard of this on a straight six; is this stock?
•   Marginal quality repaint.  I didn't see any signs of collision damage or body fillers, but there's a lot of orange peel



•   4WD not working is a pain.  could be a few things - Minor to serious
•   CV can be bought.  Not hard to take off and replace.  
•   I've seen alot of mirror adjusters not working.  
•   Parking brake frozen is a problem.  IIRC, you can't just buy them new off the shelf.
•   Rear windshield wiper is easy to fix/replace/or rewire.
•   Powerlocks failing could be as simple as the wires that go to the locks are cracked.
•   Water leaking isn't good.  Could be windshield 'caulking' could be cracking, or other seals in that area.  Either way, that could lead to rust in interesting places.
•   Some have put a dual exhaust on their Eagles.  That's cool.
•   At least they tried to repaint it.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 11:28:50 PM by Whuntmore »

Offline amc78concord

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2011, 11:30:47 PM »
It's got a dual exhaust system.  I've never heard of this on a straight six; is this stock?
Definitely not stock... Is it run all of the way from the front to the back? If it is, then there is an aftermarket header on the car that permits dual exhaust. (Very very expensive) Or is it a y-pipe or dual outlet muffler?  

I've been wanting to do this to my Eagle...It's not cheap...at all! Just to have one more pipe put in and a dual outlet muffler would cost me $350.  Someone spent some money to try and get the Eagle looking cool...
-Rob
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-Many Others... :amc:



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Offline BenM

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2011, 11:37:27 AM »
A posi rear would be an odd thing indeed. If you got that one I would open up the back axle just to check what was installed.
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Offline Mechanic

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2011, 04:21:49 PM »
Hello, sorry I'm late. Just skimmed the whole thread and I'll put in my two cents.

First, no eagles ever came with a posi rear diff, all eagles are open rear diff's. So, the previous owner either installed something aftermarket or possibly even a whole new diff out of a jeep. Or, on the worse side, there might be some seriously rusted/mangled rear end parts. I've seen it happen once or twice when someone goes 4X4 ing and gets water in the diffs and then let's the car sit. Doing so rusts the Carrier solid. But I've only seen that once or twice and only on cars that have been sitting for years.

Still, if I were you I would pop off the filler plug and see what the fluid looks like, just to be safe.

The dual exhaust is also interesting to me, as there are no dual exhaust aftermarket kits available for the eagle, and nothing stock either. Whatever is under there is completely custome and obviously quite expensive if the previous owner didn't do it himself. Be wary of that as well.

As for the parking brake, you are correct. You cannot buy a new cable for the eagles. That said however. Almost all of my eagles have had seized e-brake cable's and I've reconditioned them all. It just takes time, patience, a lot of WD-40 and sometimes, some good ol fashion FIRE!  >:D

And as for the water leakage. Not good mate. There was one eagle(whuntmore can chime in on this) that belongs to a member on here that had a similar leakage problem, now I can't remember if this one your talking about now is the one without carpets or not, but long and the short of it, hiding under the carpet were no one could see it, the whole floor pan was rusted out completely. So be wary.

Now, the 4X4 system. I have fought for HOURS on numerous different eagles trying to get the stupid vacuum operated 4X4 to work. To be honest, it a very simple system. If it's shift on the fly(no tab to pull down to engage 4X4) there is only one vacuum operated actuator to control the transfer case. To engage manually, remove the transfer case skid plate (9/16's bolts) and use a 9/16 wrench(I think, it's been a while) on the nut holding the lever and push it towards the front of the car, you might have to have people rocking the car while you do this until you feel it engage. For a stop and shift it's a bit more complicated. For those there are two vacuum operated actuators, one in the same exact place on the transfer case, working in the same way. And another on the front differential(if you want i can into the specifics of why and such, but for now). The actuator on the front Axel engages and disengages the front Axles. So, even if the transfer case is engaged you won't get any power to the front wheels. Although you should also notice, if that's the case, that you have a lack of responsiveness and that the speedo will jump slightly before you take off due to there being more power going to the front shaft, hence it spinning faster than the rear.

If you have an understanding of were some of the vacuum lines go, what pull vacuum and what requires vacuum. It is not an overly big job to re-rig your actuator system to be less tied up with the rest of your vehicle vacuum system and hence work better.

And Finlay, I'm assuming you've already done this but take a close look under all of the plastic skirts around the fenders and covering the rockers for rust. About two years ago i bought a beautiful SX/4 for a not bad price. Not a hint of rust anywhere under the car or anywhere else. It wasn't until a week or so later, when i had it up on a hoist and poking around with a screw driver that i found both rocker panels were completely gone. Rusted clean through. After i was done with the screw driver, had the carpet not been there I would have been able to fit my arm through the hole all the way up to my shoulder. It took weeks of very extensive surgery to get the car to pass safety. Just consider yourself warned.

Sorry about the long post.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 04:24:11 PM by Mechanic »
2000 Toyota 4runner 221,000 k's (DD)
1997 Chevy S10 180,000 k's (Project car)
1988 Mazda RX-7 248,000 k's (For Sale)
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon 192,000 k's (Project car)
1981 AMC Eagle SX/4 65,000 k's (Restoration Project)
1981 AMC Eagle SX/4 140,000 k's (Trail build)
1981 Chevy Camaro Burlineta 134,000 K's (Performance build)
1977 Ford F350 Dually with dump (farm truck project)

Offline OverKnight

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »
Sorry for the long post???  Mechanic, I thank you for the long post!  And my sincere thanks to everyone who has contributed!

The exhaust system has a Y-pipe right after the catalytic converter which then goes to separate mufflers and tailpipes exiting out the rear, right under the rear bumper.  I listed this in "The Bad" section because replacement is much more expensive, even more so now that I'm learning this is apparently a custom system.  I admit it does look pretty cool; I don't know if it sounds more impressive than a regular exhaust system since I've never really heard one.  Straight sixes can sound hot; I have a friend with the 235 Stovebolt six in his '57 Chevy with with glasspacks; it's not too loud, but it's got a nice rasp to it.

I should have used the term "limited-slip differential" instead of "posi-traction", which I believe is a GM trademark.  In my experience, cars without a limited-slip differential will spin only one wheel when traction is marginal; this Eagle spun both wheels equally, and did this three times.  Was some form of limited slip not available on Eagles?  This one seems to have it, unless the rear axle isn't stock, or has a rusted-up carrier, as Mechanic suggested.  If it’s not a stock rear axle, or if the pumpkin was swapped out, are the front and rear gear ratios identical?  If not, that’s a fast way to destroy the transfer case.  I’m kicking myself for not pulling the differential plug while I was under there.  Are there any identifying numbers on Eagle rear axles I can look for?

I agree, water leaking into a car is really bad.  However, I'm pretty sure the water is coming in through the windshield wiper motor mounting plate; I could see a gap between the firewall and this plate.  A little straightening of this plate, some cork gasket or foam weatherstrip and replacing the missing screws should fix this.  The body looks sound all around the windshield; I don't think it's leaking from there.

If we do purchase this car, I know I have a lot of homework to do regarding the vacuum system, because the PCV and 4WD systems, both vacuum-driven, don’t work.  By the way, there is a vacuum gauge installed, but it's installed onto a switched vacuum source, not manifold vacuum, because there's zero vacuum at idle; I don't understand the rationale of installing it in this manner.

The right CV boot is just another thing to be added to the list (plus the ~$130.00 for the part itself).  I'd replace the entire assembly; there was no grease in or around the boot (or in the vicinity), suggesting to me that this boot has been torn for a while.  My understanding is if you find a torn boot early, before it's torn too much and before all of the grease has been flung out, you may be able to get by with a replacement boot.  This doesn't appear to be the case here.

I'm not sure which section of the parking brake cable is stuck.  We'll need to remove all three sections and soak them with penetrating oil; hopefully they can be restored.

I did poke around fairly extensively under the car with a screwdriver, including under the plastic rocker panel.  I couldn’t find any holes, or even any “soft” spots.  There are DynaMats installed over the entire floor, front and rear, so it’s difficult to inspect the interior floors without pulling it up (which would likely ruin it).  But from underneath, everything felt solid.

To be continued; to be honest, Joe and I are beginning to think that this might be another Eagle we'll pass on.  Again, thank you very much for everyone’s time and expertise.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 10:52:44 PM by OverKnight »
"I shall pass through this world but once.  Any good I can do, or any kindness that I can show any human being, let me do it now and not defer it, for I shall not pass this way again."
- Stephen Grellet

Offline Mechanic

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2011, 11:13:21 PM »
No posi or limited slip diffs were ever offered in the eagle from the factory, no. Whatever's in there, assuming it's supposed to do what it's doing, is aftermarket or off another vehicle. Or broken lol

Guess another way to tell would be to turn very shap on pavement and see if it chirps the inner tire, that would give an idea one way or another.
2000 Toyota 4runner 221,000 k's (DD)
1997 Chevy S10 180,000 k's (Project car)
1988 Mazda RX-7 248,000 k's (For Sale)
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon 192,000 k's (Project car)
1981 AMC Eagle SX/4 65,000 k's (Restoration Project)
1981 AMC Eagle SX/4 140,000 k's (Trail build)
1981 Chevy Camaro Burlineta 134,000 K's (Performance build)
1977 Ford F350 Dually with dump (farm truck project)

Offline Whuntmore

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2011, 09:03:32 AM »
Yup, when we started grinding at the 'dog leg', we knew we were gonna have to move the carpet away so it won't catch on fire during the welding process.  So as we moved the carpet, it was just all rot.

Here check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyS18HHLY5A

Looked ok from the outside, but once we disturbed it, it had fallen away.  Basically everything under the driver's feet was gone.  It's not the best welding job - Considering we didn't have one sheet of metal for the whole area, but I can tell you, it's solid.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 09:05:50 AM by Whuntmore »

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2011, 06:16:21 AM »
If the rear axle was changed out to a posi unit, then do the ratios match up to the front axle.  If not, then you may not want to engage the 4WD mode.
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Offline OverKnight

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Re: New here and looking at two eagles
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2011, 01:07:19 PM »
Hi, Everyone.

Thanks again for all of the help and information; you have a great site here, thanks mostly to everyone willing to give so freely of their time and expertise.

With Joe's graduation from high school fast approaching (with the concomitant parties and a gazillion people over), She Who Must Be Obeyed has issued Her List of What Must Get Done around the house.  I haven't spoken with the seller since last week.  If the car is still available after the pomp and circumstance are over, we'll give it another look.

Again, many thanks.
"I shall pass through this world but once.  Any good I can do, or any kindness that I can show any human being, let me do it now and not defer it, for I shall not pass this way again."
- Stephen Grellet

 

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