Discussion of built driveline

[The Dark Side of Will]

My dad dropped the trans + T-case from a car, then pulled the engine leaving the front diff in the car... That looked like a ridiculously frustrating way to go about mechanical disassembly.

I was thinking that if I remove the suspension and steering, then dropping the crossmember wouldn't be so hard.

So it would look like
A. Remove Suspension
1. Remove front brakes and hang calipers via mechanic's wire
2. Unbolt innver CV joints from front diff output flanges (I'll have steel disks made to ziptie to the open ends of the joints so they don't spill their guts everywhere)
3. Unbolt steering arms from knuckles (or break loose outer tie rod ends from steering arms)
4. Unbolt tension/compression strut bracket from body
5. Break loose upper ball joint (or unbolt upper control arm from body)
6. Unbolt lower control arm from crossmember
7. Remove each side of the front suspension as an assembly

B. Remove steering
1. Unbolt steering gear from steering shaft
2. Unbolt pump from engine
3. Unbolt steering gear and idler arm from body
4. Remove entire steering system as an assembly

C. Everything else
1. Disconnect fuel plumbing
2. Disconnect engine wiring
3. Unbolt A/C compressor
4. Drain coolant & disconnect coolant plumbing, including heater hoses (remove radiator?)
5. Disconnect and remove exhaust
6. Disconnect throttle and cruise cables
7. Unbolt rear driveshaft
8. Disconnect speedometer cable & shifter mechanism
9. Unbolt trans crossmember (and T-case skidplate) and support
10. Unbolt engine/suspension crossmember and lower powertrain via overhead hoist and powertrain levelling attachment.

That sound reasonable?

Edit: Could possibly skip unbolting the CV joints and the lower control arms and lower the front suspension out with the crossmember... Would still have to remove the steering separately, of course.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Also, how thick are the two flywheels?

Can a 258 flywheel be machined down to 4.0 thickness?

Anyone used the "smaller flywheels" from the 192's and 232's on a 4.0?

[mudkicker715]

You can use either flywheel on either motor,haha. seriously though just match starter to the wheel.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I understand that they'll bolt up to the engine and work with the correct starter.
Because they are different thicknesses, the choice of flywheel affects the cltuch stack height.
Since the transmission I'll be using is designed for the thinner of the two stacks...

[captspillane]

The list of steps you listed was exactly what I just did last month. It works just fine, just expect to be putting it together thinking "I should replace that while I'm here." Then when you're done you'll have new everything and need a wheel alignment. In the end you'll have 700 or 800 dollars sunk into your Eagle and the job will have taken twice as long. I was already planning on that work so it made sense for that car. If you got the time and money to throw around, then go for it.

Getting the flywheel "thinned" would be a waste of money. Flywheels are pretty cheap. If you used the thicker flywheel you "might" be okay with your clutch pedal mechanism. If you're not okay then Novak makes an adjustable throwout bearing that will compensate the quarter inch directly. That is really intended for someone using a 4.0 flywheel with a 258 transmission. It's not intended to be used with the NV3550 because it doesn't make sense to use a 258 flywheel with that transmission.

If your heart is set on using a 258 flywheel with your NV3550, then you need an Advanced Adaptors kit to provide a spacer to mount your AX15 or NV3500 to the back of a T5 bellhousing. That is the best way to mount one of those transmissions to an AMC V8 because all the clutch mechanism stays stock T5 hardware (You cannot use a 4.0 flywheel with an AMC V8).

[The Dark Side of Will]

The list of steps you listed was exactly what I just did last month. It works just fine, just expect to be putting it together thinking "I should replace that while I'm here." Then when you're done you'll have new everything and need a wheel alignment. In the end you'll have 700 or 800 dollars sunk into your Eagle and the job will have taken twice as long. I was already planning on that work so it made sense for that car. If you got the time and money to throw around, then go for it.

Thanks for the info!
Did you unbolt the axles and remove the lower control arms from the crossmember or did you leave the suspension attached?
Did you remove the radiator?

I'll be bench-assembling the powertrain which will go into the car... and I don't mind renewing parts on a 25+ year old car anyway.

Getting the flywheel "thinned" would be a waste of money. Flywheels are pretty cheap.

I know flywheels are cheap... I can order a new stock replacement from Summit for $80.

I'm curious about it for the possibility of saving weight, not money. I know a heavier flywheel is recommended for off road use, but I just hate driving heavy flywheels on-road, and that is where this car will spend most of its time.
My dad works at a machine shop, so I can have it done essentially free.

[captspillane]

You have the strongest transmission available, the NV3550, from bellhousing back. If that's the case you need to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel with it. It's already thin, why would you want to thin a 258 flywheel? The only difference I see is that you would be able to use the original starter. The 4.0 starter is a much more reliable and longer lasting unit so that wouldn't make sense either.

I am having the front axle rebuilt so everything got removed including the axle. You absolutely must take your CV shafts off to get your wheel bearings and spindles off, so you're only saving five bolts that hold the axle on. I left the lower control arms on but I did grind off the rivets holding the ball joints while it was still in the car. You could leave the coil springs on, but realize that it's impossible to get your CV shafts off unless you push up against the coil spring with a jack. I held the entire car up by an engine hoist attached to a strap around the front bumper. I picked up the body off the engine as the drivetrain sat on rollers. You could feasibly leave the radiator but I removed it because it was being replaced and its in the way of removing the power steering pump conveniantly. I left the power steering pump tied to the fender wall and the steering box still inside the car. The pitman arm was popped off the power steering box. You must remove the power steering pump because the engine won't fit past the steering box on the way out the bottom of the car.

[The Dark Side of Will]

You have the strongest transmission available, the NV3550, from bellhousing back. If that's the case you need to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel with it. It's already thin, why would you want to thin a 258 flywheel? The only difference I see is that you would be able to use the original starter. The 4.0 starter is a much more reliable and longer lasting unit so that wouldn't make sense either.

My understanding of the flywheels was that there was a year in which the 258 thicker flywheel used the 4.0 starter gear location.

Is that correct?

I'm putting info together from different sources to come to that conclusion, so I could be wrong.

My @$$umption was that by taking the thicker 258 flywheel with the later starter gear mounting and machining it down, I'd have a lighter 4.0 flywheel. The two units are listed on Summit's website as starting at the same weight.

Did the starter ring gear change really happen at the same time as the change from 258 to 4.0?

I am having the front axle rebuilt so everything got removed including the axle. You absolutely must take your CV shafts off to get your wheel bearings and spindles off, so you're only saving five bolts that hold the axle on. I left the lower control arms on but I did grind off the rivets holding the ball joints while it was still in the car. You could leave the coil springs on, but realize that it's impossible to get your CV shafts off unless you push up against the coil spring with a jack. I held the entire car up by an engine hoist attached to a strap around the front bumper. I picked up the body off the engine as the drivetrain sat on rollers. You could feasibly leave the radiator but I removed it because it was being replaced and its in the way of removing the power steering pump conveniantly. I left the power steering pump tied to the fender wall and the steering box still inside the car. The pitman arm was popped off the power steering box. You must remove the power steering pump because the engine won't fit past the steering box on the way out the bottom of the car.

My intent is to get the powertrain out quickly.
I'm thinking that any bolts, such as the axle bolts, that can be left in place to remove the powertrain will be easier to access with powertrain out of the car and on the shop floor (or up on a sturdy work table).

Interesting that you popped the pitman arm off. I was thinking that I'd end up unbolting the gear and idler arm mount from the body. Having the gear off would be an interesting opportunity to reinforce the body.

[carnuck]

The starter change and ring gear offset happened at the same time in '87. In the Grand Wagoneers, even the 360 V8s got the samr starter as 4.0L

[The Dark Side of Will]

Obviously.

I was under the impression that the change in ring gear location occurred on the 258, and later the 4.0 was produced. After reading a little more, I think that the starter/ring gear change happened at the same time as the change to 4.0. Is this correct?

So there is no "intermediate" 258 flywheel like I thought there might be.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The Summit website lists two different Zoom stock replacement 4.0 flywheels:
One for '87-'90: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1004/applications/make/jeep?prefilter=1
And one for '91 to '03: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1002/applications/make/jeep?prefilter=1

I assume the '87-'90 unit is for the Renix systems and the '91+ for Chrysler fuel injection.

[eaglefreek]

I assume the '87-'90 unit is for the Renix systems and the '91+ for Chrysler fuel injection.

Yes, the notches for the CPS are different.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Flywheel and clutch ordered from RockAuto for about $190 including shipping

[The Dark Side of Will]

Had the flywheel/clutch for a couple of weeks.

A friend rebuilt the 4.0 in his '91 Cherokee a few months ago.
Unfortunately for him, he rolled it this week.
He's ok, only bruised pride.

But I can snag the engine for $500 from the yard that has the truck now.
It will need the 258 oil pan and pickup tube, which I have. Once I get flywheel, pressure plate, bellhousing & trans-to-T-case bolts, I'll be ready to bolt the powertrain together.

I *should* even be able to run it with the stock Jeep EFI while I put together the GM system I'd actually *like* to run.

[eaglefreek]

Bad for your friend, but a good opportunity for you. I skimmed over the whole thread and didn't see why you want to go with a GM EFI system vs the Jeep. Is it because it is supported by the aftermarket and easy to tune? I know another member used the GM stuff on his stroker a few years ago. His username is amcman76. I have everything to install EFI via Megasquirt but just haven't had the guts to do it yet.