So yesterday, drove my Eagle to work (14 miles each way), and when I sent to start in the morning, as it was a little colder than normal, was kind of sluggish cranking. Otherwise noticed nothing else odd. Drove to work, no issues. When I was leaving to go home, it started out very slow cranking and then nothing. I looked over all the switches and I didnt leave headlights on or anything else. I got a jump start, fired right up, but notice ammeter was to the left just about a needles width in the red. Figured battery was charging, warmed car up, drove home. Ammeter move up out of the red. This is where I noticed the odd issues...when I turned on wipers or headlights, it would move back into the red again. When I tured on turn signals, the meter turned into a metronome and moved in and out of the red. Alternator is relatively new (Dec 2011), Battery is relatively new (Oct 2011). Belts are tight, dont see anything loose..Any ideas?
Give the battery a good charge, clean terminals and check connections to the alternator. Then check voltage with a volt meter. When you say new alternator, I assume you mean rebuilt. Unfortunately, the quality of rebuilt parts have declined in the past several years. I wouldn't rule the battery out either. I just replaced the one in my 86 that I bought in '11. It had a dead cell.
Quote from: Mernsy on November 11, 2012, 03:14:08 AM
Sounds like either it isn't charging or the battery is bad. Try a load test on the battery first,
Thanks. Its a sears and should still be under warranty. Will give that a try.
Quote from: eaglefreek on November 11, 2012, 09:07:05 AM
Give the battery a good charge, clean terminals and check connections to the alternator. Then check voltage with a volt meter. When you say new alternator, I assume you mean rebuilt. Unfortunately, the quality of rebuilt parts have declined in the past several years. I wouldn't rule the battery out either. I just replaced the one in my 86 that I bought in '11. It had a dead cell.
The alternator was from Napa and yes, a rebuild if I remember correctly. WIll give it a clean up, check connections again and see what the voltage is.
THanks
I went through 3 alternators (reman) in an S10 from Napa before I got a good one
Quote from: Billman on November 11, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
I went through 3 alternators (reman) in an S10 from Napa before I got a good one
Just got back from Sears... the battery passes all tests but Alternators only putting out just slightly above 12volts. Looks like thats where my issue is. :censored: NAPA parts (2nd NAPA alternator in 2 years) Time to find a better brand.
I take my alternator and starters to a local rebuilder. I seem to have better luck that way.
I have had the same issue with my altenator on several occasions. Ususally, it's the voltage regulator inside the altenator. Depending on how much $$$ a rebuild shop wants, it may be cheaper for you to buy a rebuild kit yourself and fix it yourself. I buy rebuild kits with the electronics, bushings and bearing for about $25 CAD from Lordco. I imagine you should be able to find one at NAPA for a similar price. It only takes me about 40 minutes to pull, rebuild and reinstall my altenator and it saves a bunch money. My $.02.
Been searching a bit for alternators and found that most the local parts stores have generic rebuilds. I looked at the receipt of the one thats in there now and while the part number on my reciept says its a 55 amp model, the case is stamped 78 amp. No telling which is correct.
So I spread out my search online and have narrowed it down to one on Summit Racing manufactured by High Technology Automotive and by Powermaster. The one on summit I'm still trying to find more info on, the one by Powermaster I found all kind of info on. Little more pricey but not considering they are higher amperage, might be worth the extra $$. The High Tech one is 140 amps (at $149.00) and the Powermaster is either 100 ($120.00) or 140 Amp ($141.00)
I generally like overkill too just to be on the safe side, but you really only need those higher amp alternators if you're running heavy sound systems or lots of accessories. The stock ones are plenty sufficient for driving and light audio. I couldn't tell you where to buy the best one, or even what brand, but just make sure it has a good warranty ;D
You can make a small DIY job of it:
http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Alternator_Rebuild
I have the rebuild kit sitting on my shelf. Next alt for my Eagle will be 75 amp double pulley.
Ended up ordering a new 100A Powermaster unit. Should be delivered Thursday/Friday...I aint playing with the rebuilt units again on this car.
Power (bad word) don't honor their warranty and the alts generally last less than a year.
I have an one-wire on another car that I'm going to pull out when I put it back on the road. I didn't know at the time what the difference was, but I do now. I have also learned that the stamp on the case is the factory marking. On a rebuild it could be anything as they mix-and-match cases, but I'd expect the receipt is correct.
Here is a good listing of part numbers for alts (http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/delcoremy.shtml)
Quote from: BenM on November 12, 2012, 06:51:45 PM
I have an one-wire on another car that I'm going to pull out when I put it back on the road. I didn't know at the time what the difference was, but I do now. I have also learned that the stamp on the case is the factory marking. On a rebuild it could be anything as they mix-and-match cases, but I'd expect the receipt is correct.
Here is a good listing of part numbers for alts (http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/delcoremy.shtml)
in my search, I looked at the DelcoRemy (both new and rebuilt) and thought about going with one of thiers, but couldnt find anyone local that sold them. I decided not to go with any of the auto parts stores (NAPA, Advance, Pepboys, etc) as they were all house brands and I couldnt get much info on how they rebuilt and where they were rebuilt. So I started seaching online for NEW alternators and read every review I could find. Since my last rebuilt NAPA was 98.00, it wasnt much of a stretch to get a new for the same price. PowerMasters had lots of good reviews so I went that way. Hopefully I wont have to test out thier warranty process.
Alternator arrived today, installed and cars much happier. Ammeter is pointing where its supposed to again. I got was The PowerMaster 12si, 100 Amp, P/N 7294. Perfect fit and everything lined up.
Good job, the original alternator is not really powerfull enough when everything is on.
Quote from: Billman on November 11, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
I went through 3 alternators (reman) in an S10 from Napa before I got a good one
Given the length of time I have a car (my recently departed Eagle - 18 years), it's worth the extra money to buy a lifetime alternator. Even if you get bad ones, at least the only thing you are out of is the time to replace it yourself.
Is there any other battery group size besides 56 that anyones squeezed into thier Eagle? Mines not holding a charge and am taking it in to get replaced tomorrow. Unfortunately Sears only has one group 56 battery and its not a diehard. Wanted to see if I had any options.
Thanks,
Got a new battery and still having issues. As I just installed new alternator too, I emailed the following to the manufacture of the alternator:
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I just recently purchased a Power Master 7294 100A alternator through Summit Racing. It's installed on my 1983 AMC Eagle with a 4.2L (258 CI) engine. Car and engine is stock. Reason I went for the larger alternator is cost was close enough to cost of a NEW OEM alternator and the reviews I've read on your products on the Jeep web sites have been really good.
Here's my issue. I was having issues lately with battery not charging. Its a sears battery, I took it to them and after running load test and charging system tests, the battery has a weak cell and the alternator was only putting out slightly over 12 volts. So, I needed both new alternator and battery. I have both now. Watching the volt gage on the dash, previous to this issue, it stayed in between the too low and too high red areas of the meter. When the problem started, it stays in the too low area and this was confirmed by sears. Now, with the new alternator and battery, I still have that issue. I just checked the battery with a multimeter and it read 12.4 volts prior to starting and just slightly higher when engine was running. I checked the voltage at the alternator and it mirrored what I seen at the battery.
The proof of performance tag that was on the alternator when I received it says it was set at 14.7 volts (Dated 10-26-12 initialed by JG). What am I missing that is making this too low to keep charging the battery? Other symptoms I see are as follows:
- After driving the car for about 15 minutes the voltmeter on the dash creeps up to normal but immediately goes below the red zone if I turn on something electrical that have a higher current draw (wipers, lights, blinkers, etc.) Just having the radio on doesn't cause the issues.
- I was verifying alternator belt tightness and when I accidently touched the alternator pulley, I almost burned my finger. I dripped a little water on the pulley and it was hot enough to turn it to steam.
I looked over the wiring, for the charging circuit, I don't see anything broke, grounded, melted, etc. Solenoid and battery cables are new. What am I missing?
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Any suggestions?
I don't know if the Power Masters are also reman 12si aternators?
This means you could have a faulty one.
The wiring in the car may have almost shorted out somewhere, but then it should get hot somewhere too.
Do you have a multimeter that can do 20 to 50 Amps, you could put it in series with the one wire connection and check the Amps with no load (lamps, defroster, vent etc off), should be less than 5 Amps. Which size AWG does your one wire connection have? Is the engine ground cable OK?
Here you will find some background information:
http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html
While the car is running, and after charging the battery:
Check the alternator to battery, then check between both battery terminals and the fender for the voltage.
Probe the two connectors on the top of the alt. They are the sense and excite wires, and should be the same voltage as the rest of the system. See if that wire harness is hot. Both wires should show 12v with the ignition on, there is a resistor and the dash light in the excite wire, but they shouldn't show any significant voltage drop with no load.
After all that's done, you can always try to convert it to one-wire and see what happens. A 12v bulb between the excite terminal and the pos terminal on the alt, then a plain wire between the sense terminal and the pos terminal will bypass the stock harness (and might drain your battery overnight) but should provide 14v at the pos terminal on the alt.
I'm expecting a harness or ground issue right now since everything is new.
Quote from: Jurjen on November 23, 2012, 05:03:47 PM
I don't know if the Power Masters are also reman 12si aternators?
This means you could have a faulty one.
The wiring in the car may have almost shorted out somewhere, but then it should get hot somewhere too.
Do you have a multimeter that can do 20 to 50 Amps, you could put it in series with the one wire connection and check the Amps with no load (lamps, defroster, vent etc off), should be less than 5 Amps. Which size AWG does your one wire connection have? Is the engine ground cable OK?
Here you will find some background information:
http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html
THanks for the comments. The powermaster is new, not remanufactured. I looked over all the wiring for the charging circuit and came across one half butt repair someone did. THey took a bunch of wires that were supposed to go to the hot side of the solenoid (Including the one from the Alternator) and wrapped them all together, soldered them to a piece of 10 guage wire and then connected that to the solenoid and wrapped the junction with electrical tape. Connection was solid so dont think thats the issue (going to fix that tomorrow). Engine ground cable is solid and I have a good ground there. I dont have a multimeter that'll go that high amp wise, but see what you're getting at. The wire from the alternator the factory wire. 10 guage maybe?
Quote from: BenM on November 23, 2012, 07:54:09 PM
While the car is running, and after charging the battery:
Check the alternator to battery, then check between both battery terminals and the fender for the voltage.
Probe the two connectors on the top of the alt. They are the sense and excite wires, and should be the same voltage as the rest of the system. See if that wire harness is hot. Both wires should show 12v with the ignition on, there is a resistor and the dash light in the excite wire, but they shouldn't show any significant voltage drop with no load.
After all that's done, you can always try to convert it to one-wire and see what happens. A 12v bulb between the excite terminal and the pos terminal on the alt, then a plain wire between the sense terminal and the pos terminal will bypass the stock harness (and might drain your battery overnight) but should provide 14v at the pos terminal on the alt.
I'm expecting a harness or ground issue right now since everything is new.
Good ideas. I did check to see if there was a voltage drop from alternator to battery and it was abot .02 volts. Wires weren't hot. (see other post to Jurjen on what I did find) Both the sense and excite wires were slightly over 12 volts with ignition on. WIth the powermaster, it'll do one wire operation. Thats something I didnt think of. Thanks... stuff to try tomorrow.
Quote from: recomer on November 16, 2012, 09:16:52 PM
Is there any other battery group size besides 56 that anyones squeezed into thier Eagle? Mines not holding a charge and am taking it in to get replaced tomorrow. Unfortunately Sears only has one group 56 battery and its not a diehard. Wanted to see if I had any options.
Thanks,
I did squeeze in a large battery in my Eagle. Unfortunately, I do not have the car anymore to be able to tell you what size it was. I do know that depending on the battery brand, it was rated for 800 - 1000 CCA.
How I got the battery to fit was that I took out the battery tray& on the long side of the tray, cutthe corners & flattened the lip down. Just that 1/4" or so width of the battery made the difference. It fit snugly between the fender & the AC line. I also put some wood shims under the battery to help keep it away from the AC line. I drove it like that for many years & replaced batteries only after their 72 month warranty was up & had no problems. If you wanted, you could probably fashion a strap to hold the battery to the fender away from the AC line.
Quote from: AMC lifer on November 26, 2012, 08:36:04 PM
Quote from: recomer on November 16, 2012, 09:16:52 PM
Is there any other battery group size besides 56 that anyones squeezed into thier Eagle? Mines not holding a charge and am taking it in to get replaced tomorrow. Unfortunately Sears only has one group 56 battery and its not a diehard. Wanted to see if I had any options.
Thanks,
I did squeeze in a large battery in my Eagle. Unfortunately, I do not have the car anymore to be able to tell you what size it was. I do know that depending on the battery brand, it was rated for 800 - 1000 CCA.
How I got the battery to fit was that I took out the battery tray& on the long side of the tray, cutthe corners & flattened the lip down. Just that 1/4" or so width of the battery made the difference. It fit snugly between the fender & the AC line. I also put some wood shims under the battery to help keep it away from the AC line. I drove it like that for many years & replaced batteries only after their 72 month warranty was up & had no problems. If you wanted, you could probably fashion a strap to hold the battery to the fender away from the AC line.
Been thinking about a simular modification to my Eagle, difference being I was thinking I'm hacking into the radiatorandcrearing a boxed area that will fit a group 34/78 battery. Tight fit but measures to a secure fit.
I think I have a group 34 Optima Red Top in there.
Very reliable, fits just fine, 50Ah and 815CCA.
Will also start after a long period of not using the Eagle.
Well, after a couple weeks of this I kinda feel stupid. Votlage is back to normal again and while the battery was one of the issues (BTW, the battery that was in my car was a group 55 and its since been replaced with a group 56 vice warranty with Sears).
I called a friend of mine on Sunday and we talked for about 30-45 minutes about the voltage issues and he agreed I'd done everything possible and it had to be a faulty alternator. He told me to verify by starting car and removing hot lead from Battery. If car died, it would confirm. So I tried, and guess what? Car stayed running. The other word of advice he gave was start from the beginning and check everything again. I checked Belt Tightness and while it seemed tight enough, I went ahead and loosened the alternator to tighten it again. I'll be :water reservoir:, the voltage went up to 14.5 volts when I started it. It looks like thats all it was. Battery Meter Guage is back in the middle again. So strange that belt was tight (no squeeling or anything) yet that appears to be the fix for this. I would have beat my head against the car last night but decided not to as I didnt want to knock anything else loose. :)
That actually sounds like there was corrosion between the alt and mounting, where moving it made the voltage jump up. Bad ground from the body to the motor will have this effect too.
I agree with Carnuck.
Quote from: carnuck on November 27, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
That actually sounds like there was corrosion between the alt and mounting, where moving it made the voltage jump up. Bad ground from the body to the motor will have this effect too.
I checked the grounding between the motor and body...the braided strap around the motor mount is in perfect shape and solid. I grabbed it, yanked on it and its good. I did resistance checks from motor to chassis alternator case to motor and then to chassis and twice I've had that alternator off and on, including tightening that belt.
Quote from: recomer on November 27, 2012, 06:25:50 PM
Quote from: carnuck on November 27, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
That actually sounds like there was corrosion between the alt and mounting, where moving it made the voltage jump up. Bad ground from the body to the motor will have this effect too.
I checked the grounding between the motor and body...the braided strap around the motor mount is in perfect shape and solid. I grabbed it, yanked on it and its good. I did resistance checks from motor to chassis alternator case to motor and then to chassis and twice I've had that alternator off and on, including tightening that belt.
Sounds like time for a new belt or something is loose in the alt, or the 2 prong plug needs replacing.