The idea would be to remove the main drive shaft and keep it in 4WD.
Comments?
Problems?
No it will destroy the transfer case after awhile
I don't know how I could get it fixed; or, get another one where I live.
If you would indulge me, in what regard would it destroy the transfer case, and, what would be "after awhile" in terms of use/miles?
What part of your driveshaft is bent? A driveshaft repair shop could easily replace the tube and may be able to get the ends. Someone near you may have a spare driveshaft they would be willing to sell if you post in the wanted section or they may contact you from this posting.
The viscous coupler is the only thing that keeps the differential, in the transfer case, from spinning and the car not moving, without the rear driveshaft. The viscous coupler is somewhat weak in the 119 or 129 transfer case and may fail under constant use. I have personally put thousands of miles on a 249 transfer case, with a viscous coupler, without the front driveshaft, but that is a stronger viscous coupler.
If you do run it that way make sure your parking brake is on when you park it or it will roll.
Quote from: hanajack on December 30, 2011, 03:12:37 PM
I don't know how I could get it fixed; or, get another one where I live.
what would be "after awhile" in terms of use/miles?
Could be as little as a few minutes. Where do you live that it is difficult to find a drive shaft shop?
It's only really possible using a transfer case that allows high lock. AMC used other lengths of the same design in Jeeps so they should be common enough to come by for parts.
The length of time it will work depends on the condition of your current coupling and how aggressively you drive, but it's only designed to handle the full weight of the car for short periods before it is allowed to cool off.
Hana, Maui. Most remote place on Maui. Three hours, a reported 620 curves and 54 one-lane bridges in the 50 miles to any repair shop. Have had 6 accidents on the road - only one involving another car. No specific drive shaft service on Maui.
It's an '84 wagon, 81k orig. miles; what transfer case would it have?
I'm on a public computer and don't have my repair manual with me. What and where is the viscous coupler at issue?
The parking brake "popped" this morning and the car went over a rock ledge, picked up a couple hundred pound rock on the way and carried it another hundred feet till the rock caught on another rock. The drive shaft damage/bend is about 1/3 back from front u-joint.
Quote from: hanajack on December 30, 2011, 04:58:48 PM
Hana, Maui. Most remote place on Maui. Three hours, a reported 620 curves and 54 one-lane bridges in the 50 miles to any repair shop. Have had 6 accidents on the road - only one involving another car. No specific drive shaft service on Maui.
It's an '84 wagon, 81k orig. miles; what transfer case would it have?
I'm on a public computer and don't have my repair manual with me. What and where is the viscous coupler at issue?
The parking brake "popped" this morning and the car went over a rock ledge, picked up a couple hundred pound rock on the way and carried it another hundred feet till the rock caught on another rock. The drive shaft damage/bend is about 1/3 back from front u-joint.
Wow! That is remote. The viscous coupling is inside the transfer case. If the VC is damaged, you will have to take the transfer case out and disassemble it to replace the VC, which are next to impossible to come by.
Sounds like you need a NP208 tcase (your current one is likely a NP129 if you have a dash mounted 2wd to 4wd switch) and a longer driveshaft (5 inches more than your current one) Jeep also uses similar shafts in the Grand Wagoneer on the front drive but they are double cardan (3 ujoints)
In the past I have made emergency repairs on driveshafts by first measuring the original shaft for length, then finding another that is slightly bigger diameter (I've even used drain pipe) and cutting out the bad part, slipping the tube of the other shaft over it and drilling through so I can put bolts through to hold it in place (I draw a line down the old shaft so I can realign the 2 halves to match) I've even welded them together that way. Just make sure the length it right first!
Quote from: carnuck on December 31, 2011, 12:41:07 AM
Sounds like you need a NP208 tcase (your current one is likely a NP129 if you have a dash mounted 2wd to 4wd switch) and a longer driveshaft (5 inches more than your current one) Jeep also uses similar shafts in the Grand Wagoneer on the front drive but they are double cardan (3 ujoints)
In the past I have made emergency repairs on driveshafts by first measuring the original shaft for length, then finding another that is slightly bigger diameter (I've even used drain pipe) and cutting out the bad part, slipping the tube of the other shaft over it and drilling through so I can put bolts through to hold it in place (I draw a line down the old shaft so I can realign the 2 halves to match) I've even welded them together that way. Just make sure the length it right first!
A drain pipe? :rotfl: I never thought of that one, but I guess it would work in an emergency.
I've even used a section of tree when one got twisted up about 40 miles from the main road (Alaska)
Quote from: carnuck on December 31, 2011, 01:03:24 AM
I've even used a section of tree when one got twisted up about 40 miles from the main road (Alaska)
That is a new one on me too, I bet the vibration would sure shake your money bag loose :o I guess when you live or break down in remote areas you have to be creative, my hats off to you for your ingenuity.
Guess you didn't know my nickname was McGyver, huh? (They shot a lot of the episodes near where I grew up)
Not totally related but one of my good buddies back at home had a Subaru Brat ( I know there is a joke there, I have an Eagle and he had a Brat), and he had a CV axle break. His fix was to put it in 4wd and take his outer tulips off the axles and reinstalled (to keep the hubs together) and drove it as a RWD. He did this for many months. He kept breaking motor mounts because of the un-engineered torquing of the engine. This is a completely different setup but still brought up a fun memory for me.
Ahhh, you live on one of my favorite roads, Jack. It a long ride out to Kahului, and your Eagle won't make it that far without a rear driveshaft.
I'd recommend doing your best to straighten the driveshaft enough to use for the drive to town, where there's bound to be a welding shop that can build you a new driveshaft, maybe also get a spare built? To straighten bent driveshafts before, I've placed the shaft strategically on a couple of rocks and driven obver it with another vehicle, also used a torch and mounted the shaft in a vice. I suppose you could heat the shaft to dull glowing red with just a campfire and a vacuum cleaner(run in reverse as a blower to ge the coals hot), but I'd remove the u-joints from it, and remove as much grease as possible before trying that. Then try bending it straight using whatever immovable objects or driving over it method, protecting the tire from the heat with a board.
What bent the driveshaft? You hit a rock, or did a joint come apart?
The parking brake "popped" this morning and the car went over a rock ledge, picked up a couple hundred pound rock on the way and carried it another hundred feet till the rock caught on another rock. The drive shaft damage/bend is about 1/3 back from front u-joint.
[/quote]from HANNAJACK
FROM EARLIER POST
Wow, Eagle took itself on a joy ride. Good luck with straightening the driveshaft enough to drive into town. Amazing the driveshaft was all that got bent.
All good stuff.
I removed the drive shaft.
My concern about the backyard straightening is that there are two rather deep 5" to 8" long gouges/dents in the shaft as well as the bend.
My other concern is that reading MR 251, there is great emphasis on balancing. Hard to imagine that a machine shop, let alone a welder, could come up with a means of balancing a re-tubed shaft.
There used to be an Eagle Limited in the wrecking yard on the other side. Would any 4x4 Eagle have the same shaft?
A 4dr sedan would be the same as a wagon.
Any year?
Any year
Man, don't heat that drive shaft to much. I had one explode that was left in a car, set on fire, went out through the roof and raped around an oak tree. Had to use a torch to get it off the tree.
If you cut the drive shaft with a pipe cuter that will give you two nice beveled ends to work with. Cut out the bad section and put in a new piece of pipe, tree limb, sticks and stones or what ever. LOL Drive shafts are made out of tubing, find the right size will be the hardest part. Do you have any bone yards near you? May find something there. Good luck
Balance is for higher speeds (above 30 mph). Alignment of the Ujoints (they have to be mirror imaged at each end so the yokes have to be correctly mounted) is far more important. I used to do driveshafts with a pipe lathe (it had a 6" through head) and a stick welder. Most were so good they didn't even need balancing when checked. When you weld the yokes on, you need to be sure the old weld is removed enough from the yoke that the alignment step will fit inside the new tube tightly. I do a slight bevel inside the new tube to help the yoke slip in with just the tap of a hammer.
Start a spot weld on one side of the yoke and spin it in the lathe to ensure it's not wobbling then start to weld on the far side from the spot right up to the spot and around to where you started in one pass if you can or leave a puddle on either side to keep it balanced.
Carnuck, That is some really good detailed advise.
I marked the alignment and removed the drive shaft at the "spiders"; it is all still intact. Actually, the drive shaft front spline/slip fit didn't want to come all the way out of the front yoke. So, with the yoke on the axle end of the shaft and the spline on the front end, do you suggest that spline and front yoke remain intact when doing the cutting and welding?
Do you know what the ID of a new tube should be?
Also, the the minimum wall thickness acceptable?
Sorry, I don't know what the current driveshaft diameter is. I do leave the ends on when i cut them as it makes it much easier to realign and check for wobble when done. Some of the first ones I did with a cut off saw and they turned out horribly wobbly. Tape the ujoint caps or use a piece of motorcycle (or small diameter car) inner tube to keep them from falling apart.
If you do decide to take the splined slip(collapsable part) of the driveshaft apart, then you need to mark it for realignment. The crosses of the universal joints must remain in phase with each other, in ither words, the crosses line up with each other at each end. The "spiders" you are referring to are probably the universal joint crosses. The parts that stay on the transfer case and axle are called yokes.
The driveshaft tubing needs to be actual tubing, NOT water pipe or fence pipe or exhaust pipe. If you can find a junk driveshaft form some other vehicle that has similar size tubing and is longer than the section of the shaft that needs replaced, then that tubing will do the job for replacing yours. You'll need to find someone who can weld, and has a decent knowledge of how to measure and can cut square. I'd recommend using a chop saw, rather than anything else(grinder or torch), to get the cuts square. I have used a piece of angle steel to lay the pieces of driveshaft in to hold them square to each other before welding them together(remember to make sure the u-joints are in phase!). This was for a low-speed off-road only driveshaft that didn't need balancing. Only a machine shop has the tools necessary to balance a driveshaft for high speed use.
The best thing to do is to have the tubing replaced by a professional with the specialty tools that allow them to get the ends on straight, in phase, they'll have the correct kind of tubing to do the job, and they'll balance it for use on the highway. Generally, a new driveshaft costs me around $200 here in TX. You will probably have to take it to a machine shop in Kahului. Google "drive shaft repair" or "machine shop". Seki's, maybe? Call em.
Thanks for the correction on my use of the term yokes. Think I got the "spider"[u-joint] term from the manual.
Yes, Seki's would be the place, but don't know if Roy Seki is still active.
If necessary, what would be the source of a new drive shaft of which you speak?
The machine shop would build a new(or a re-tubed) driveshaft either using parts from your old one(re-tubing), with the bent tubing cut out, or they could order(or might stock) the parts("stub and slip" collapsible part, and the u-joint yokes for the driveshaft-side of the joints), from Spicer (the manufacturer). They should have a fixture to hold the parts together for welding, and lathe that allows them to spin the driveshaft at high speed to watch it for wobble, and a strobe light to help them locate where to put a balance weight. I've had driveshafts for my Jeeps retubed for a little as $150 when all the parts of the driveshaft were good and useable, but the old stub and slip can wear out to the point where the machine shop can't balance a re-tubed shaft. Then they either require me to buy new parts or they won't warranty the shaft and won't balance it, or they might refuse to use the old parts. I usually bring the driveshafts in to a machine shop cleaned of all grease, sanded off most rust and paint, and removed u-joints, so they don't have to do a bunch of cleanup work first.
The machine shop may need you to measure the distance between the rear transfer case output yoke and the differential pinion yoke, if the old driveshaft is too severly bent to measure from, and if the car is lifted/ otherwise modified from stock. That is the reason I usually have driveshafts redone - lifting changes the length needed for the driveshaft.
My wife wishes I could arrange to deliver you a replacement driveshaft and take her with me. I told her where you live. Wishful thinking. :rotfl:
Just found out that the Eagle in the wrecking yard was crushed. My ace in the hole was a joker. Regarding my stub and slip, it was/is packed with grease and has 81k miles on it - should think it's OK.
Meanwhile, there are tons of Jeeps on the island. Would there be any will-fit, cross over Jeep shafts? I would prefer to try to get another shaft rather than re-tube mine.
Measuring is the only way to go. If there are any FSJs (Grand Wagoneer, Jtruck) the front shaft may be the correct size (I vaguely recall having one side by side with an Eagle shaft) Just recall that none of the slip yoke shafts will work, so XJs are not on the donor list.
Sorry to hear they crushed your only possible parts source on the island, especially if you need other parts, not just the driveshaft. Bummer.
Eagles have a driveshaft configuation suited to heavier-duty use than most other 4wd vehicles, being that they have a fixed output yoke on the transfer case. Most Jeep vehicles have a slip yoke in the back of the transfer case and a solid driveshaft tube, which is usually one of the first things that has to be changed when a Jeep is lifted more than a couple of inches. There isn't really anything out there from the other car/truck manufacturers with a driveshaft that is similar in length or has the same u-joints. A full-size Jeep rear driveshaft would likely be too long, and would need to be cut down, which is a really similar process to retubing, cost-wise.
OK txjeeptx, you'll have to grab the wife and drive shaft and get over here. You can camp on the property - no house.