Has anyone had a problem with their ESPO springs flattening out?
Ive had mine installed for about 10 months now and noticed the rear of the car was sagging...I have air shocks so I let all the air out and found out that the springs had flattened out enough that they were resting on the shocks, and that without any air in the shocks my leaf springs are COMPLETELY flattened out and that the rear end is very noticably sagging...the rear is probably at least 2 inches or more lower than the front.
I called them about this and the lady I talked to immediately got very defensive like I was personally attacking her...She also claimed she has had no other people ever say there was a problem with their springs like this and that even if there was its impossible for both of them to sag that much and if anything it should only be one of them.
She said she could get them re-arched for me for free but I would have to pay for shipping which is around $100 both ways from me..that didnt work since the Eagle is my only vehicle .
Eventually I said to her that its not like I was looking for free replacements or anything but at least id like a discount on some new ones or something.
She said I was out of warranty so technically she doesnt have to do anything for me, but she agreed to give me a 20 or 25 percent discount and sold them to me for $120/pair plus the shipping. I also got new center bolts so if I have the same problem that at the very least I can take some leafs from the one and add them to the other.
getting them locally are around $700/pair so I figured this was a better choice.
Has anyone else had any issues with their springs? how are everyone elses ESPO springs holding up?
The ESPO ones are now worse than my stock ones were when I changed them out, and they were 25 years old.
You are not alone:
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=14714.0
Both Espo and General Spring seem to go flat.
I think I will keep the Monroe Airmax shocks in untill this is solved.
I believe my coils are ESPO and they've held up well. I didn't replace the rear, just added a spring to get the leaves up to par, so I can't speak for the leaves.
I have the coil springs and they are still great.
I am going to end up combining my leaf springs together probably.
I got the ESPO rear leafs and can say I am not so impressed.
They have been on 6 months. After swapping them in it did bring the rear up almost 3", but they are flat across now and I do have the air shocks holding it with about 50psi.
I suspect I will be doing a add-a-leaf or helper springs soon.
A local shop said they had a pair of leafs that would fit but wanted almost twice as much. I made the economical choice at the time but in the long run may be getting what I pay for...
I am going to the local shop next time I want them.
As far as re-arching I wouldnt give them back to ESPO. From what I understand they do it the "wrong way" and will be back to the sag in no time, as per this link...
http://www.eatonsprings.com/rearching.htm
Jim should probably be chiming in here soon...
But I guess I am not sure if his leafs were from them.
Perhaps everyone who has gotten springs from them recently and they have flattened out should give them a call and let them know. Perhaps they will rethink their statements. They may think that Eagle folks are so few that we do not communicate with each other. That is what is nice about automotive forums like this. It does not take long for information good and not so good to ripple thru the community. Some vendors do watch the some forums to get a heads up on any dissatisfaction.
What I thought was weird that she said no one had called in about them flattening.
Their springs come with a one year warranty and I swear I had seen people complain on here, so its weird that no one else on here would have called about it.
If anybody would like to start putting pressure on either this company or GEICO, contact me. If there are more than a couple of complaints, I'll put a write-up on my blog to point up the problem, and warn others about a shady company. That is an audience of thousands of car folks, and obviously they all know other car folks. So if they think they can just ignore something and it will go away, they will probably be surprised.
mike
Yes, I would like to.
Originally they said they would do nothing for me and that theres nothing wrong with their springs.
I told them that there is a large Eagle fan club on the net, as well as other AMC related ones and that I will make sure to let all of them know of my problems there...that many have them have bought springs from them in the past for all sorts of AMC's.
She said it didnt matter because everyone here will tell me that theyve never had any problems with their springs and that I would be the only one with a complaint against the company. She said also that a couple AMC guys wouldnt be enough to have any negative effect on their business.
Id like to show them that they are wrong.
SOOOO.... I definately will not buy those springs now!!! You lost them one customer at least but who and where is a good place to get springs that people have had good luck with???
Has anyone used Eaton springs, I contacted them about coil springs for the front and was quoted a tad over 100.00 including shipping, and I think they have leaf springs available.
Eddie
I will certainly throw my name in to put pressure on them or sign a petition or whatever.
I wouldnt settle to have ESPO re-arch or over bend them, due to what I posted earlier. It would be over $500 to re-arch them the proper way according to Eaton. I can guarantee that ESPO isnt going to be doing that for free. I will send them to Eaton to re-arch and Eaton can send ESPO the bill.
Dont think I still have the receipt, but I could find the CC payment to them.
Just wondering. Does ESPO know these are over axle mounted??? That may make difference on the spring material/production method???
Also, I want to know from those that got the leafs... do you think your leaf springs from them were New?
Do they sell New or Reconditioned leafs?
The ones I got seemed to me to be old and freshly painted. I didnt and dont know any better and just took them as is. But to me seemed shady, the paint was chipped and flaking in spots and underneath the metal was rusty/pitted. Makes me wonder now if they were just old used ones that they cold bend re-arched and painted and sold to me. Now 6 months later they are back to their old used flattened condition?
Just some concern on my part.
Could have been NOS -- left overs for other AMC undersprung applications? Or maybe a return?
Anybody tried McVeighs' Truck Springs, Inc.? They have new leaf springs with bushings for Eagles for $138 shipped to your door.
Is that $138 individual or for the pair?
My leaf springs from ESPO and the heavier-duty set from KC Spring all flattened.
I gave no thought to whether mine may have been reconditioned, and of course it's too late to tell, now.
I have wondered if I could use a leaf from one set to beef up the other. However, I don't want any lift - just stock,
with a little more load-carrying capacity.
The coils I got from ESPO worked too well - they lifted the front, which was not my intention.
Someone on the Forum got the non-ac coils and it seemed to bring his back to a more appropriate height. I'm strongly considering
doing that.
Quote from: MetalBird on March 27, 2008, 12:35:18 PM
Is that $138 individual or for the pair?
Here is what is says:
"1 COMPLETE PAIR (2 FACTORY SPRINGS) FOR REAR OF 1980-1983 AMERICAN MOTORS EAGLE 2-4 DR MODELS. SPRINGS HAVE 4 LEAVES, 2-1/2" WIDE, AND 52" IN LENGTH. ALL BUSHINGS INCLUDED."
They are $90 and shipping is $48 to the lower 48 states.
Why just the 80-83 years?
I would honestly be suspicious of any leaf springs that "cheap" considering everything now.
But I dont know.
90 bucks seems too cheap to me for a pair. I think JC Whitney wants over 120 apiece for Gremlin springs. It was something like 120/pair on the front, though. Don't know if they have Eagle ones, though. Will Cherokee springs fit at the rear? You could use somebody like Rubicon Express or some other trail shops for Jeeps.
Maybe write to some of the Jeep trail parts makes and ask them about starting up with Eagle rear springs, and point out there is a little market here that is not being served by existing vendors. Because the existing vendors are making car stuff, not 4x4 stuff. That seems to be obvious. It doesn't have to ride like a truck to be able to trail run it, either.
mike
Well anyone who has had problems with their ESPO springs could always call them and complain like I did, or ask about their manufacturing process......though Laura will swear up and down that its your fault and not their springs fault.
They are very defensive over there it seems.
I am sure they are until they get more complaints stating the same thing. If you call them or mention it here, make sure you mention facts not opinions.
I understand that some members lost money here, but let's consider that ESPO is one of not many suppliers for Eagle suspension parts.
I think it would be better to find a solution together with ESPO for this problem, so that future customers are better served.
They probably copied the Eagle springs and by doing that they copied the problem of tail sagging too.
I read that members who added a leaf have no problems, so maybe we can ask them to make a four leaf prototype.
I'm not going out in the dark to count leaves, but isn't 4 leaves standard?
Yeah, mine came with 4 from them... so they should automatically be doing the add-a-leaf for us so we dont have to go thru the hassle of doing it ourselves 3 months later.
If anything maybe they could send us all the extra leaf kit.
Why just the 80-83 years?
In the late 70's and early 80's I worked in a NAPA, we sold leaf springs and they had year model and application ink stamped on them in white, the name of the supplier just popped into my old brain, it was Columbus Trainor Spring in Columbus Ohio.
Eddie
Well when I called I didnt demand new springs or anything.
I just decided to ask for a discount on some new ones (again, I wasnt under warranty anymore and didnt notice how bad it really was because of my air shocks).
So technically they didnt have to do anything for me as I was out of warranty, but she ended up giving me a 20 or 25 percent discount on new ones.
I also ordered new centerbolts as well so I can take the new ones and combine a leaf or two (depending how many are in it) from the old ones which should hopefully level it out. My car is a little bit raised already in the front so I need to even out the back.
But the thing that started me posting this thread, is that they were absolutely positive that *I* somehow destroyed my leaf springs and caused them to flatten out, and that there is NOTHING wrong with the springs at all. Laura actually ENCOURAGED me to ask around becuase she said there would not be even a SINGLE complaint about their springs and that there must me something wrong with my car or wrong with the way I installed them.
She said that NO ONE would complain.....in fact it is seeming more like no one who HAS bought their leaf springs is completely satisfied with them as she claimed you all would be.
I must say though, the front coils have held up quite nicely on me...just the rear leaf springs have been a problem.
I emailed McVeighs' Truck Springs, Inc. and asked about their springs and told them I was worried about them flattening out and here is the reply I got:
"Hello; These springs are manufactured by Standens Springs in Indianapolis. They have a very stringent quality control process, and offer a full replacement for 2 years. This means shipping, etc.--no charge. Thank you, Tom"
havasuhd,
Ninety dollars for a pair of leaf springs, is a "steal". hope someone tries them, and gives some feedback on them.
Eddie
I am ordering them but I guess we have to wait a year or so for me to see if their any good and leave feedback!!! (I am putting them to the test also though cause I plan on installing them with a 2" longer shackle I am making to give me 1" of lift.)
It didn't take anywhere near a year to find out my ESPO springs flattened.
I just went and looked at my springs, they are four leaf, which seems to be the norm. My thoughts are that AMC had the springs spec'ed too soft originally to give a better ride, and the aftermarket is building their springs to AMC specs and they are just not holding up. The leaves appear to be 5/16" thick, maybe a custom built 3/8" thick, three leaf spring would be better, but would probably break the budget.
Eddie
Eddie, if you are correct, it seems to me that ESPO is not at fault.
I bought a set from another vendor that did exactly the same thing.
Just called and had talk with Standens Springs in Indianopolis, they are not building any leaf springs for AMC vehicles, he said they had sold all their old stock to a vintage car supplier in Michigan a few years back, couldn't remember his name. He gave a name of a custom builder in Omaha, NE. Anyway I described the problem with the aftermarket springs, he said they were most likely built in China, he said one of their biggest accounts, Neway suspension, which is used on over the road trailers, went to China for their springs to cut cost, anyway the springs on the trailers were sagging two inches while setting on the lot before being sold, so Neway came back to them as their spring supplier.
Eddie
I don't know about my ESPO springs, but the ones from kcsprings came from Mexico.
several years ago Mopar began selling "restoration" leaf springs made in Mexico, they also had sagging problems.
I had to add 2 extra leaves to get them back up to the correct height
Jim,
The fellow at Standens Springs told me all the manufacturers (car) were cutting cost in the 70's and 80's, he said they could save money by using thinner materail and fewer leaves, not just AMC but all brands. If anyone is interested in custom built, they can call Lanally (this may be spelled incorrectly) in Omaha, NE, 402-341-2036 and speak to Pedro.
Eddie
Maybe the springs are coming from China via Mexico.
Eddie
If the McVeigh ones are still holding up after a couple months I will be interested in those at that price.
But thats the thing as stated by Eddie from the Standens place, we are not getting New springs for our cars, we are getting old stock or reconditioned ones from these places that are selling them. Thats what I feel mine are from ESPO.
Does ESPO say where theirs are coming from?
I think I am just going to order the Mcveigh ones and see what happens.....(I will post pics and keep you all updated) dont know why they would tell me they were made by Standen Springs though if Standen says they don't make any to fit AMC???
has anyone tried Eaton Detroit ?
says made in USA and OEM supplier, theres even AMC listings
I havn't tried them yet but have heard good things about them in the past
www.eatonsprings.com
havasuhd,
Its worth a go, the price is right anyway. Good luck with them. Standen Springs had the specs on the springs, just not making them, so he said.
Eddie
andyb,
i am getting my front coils from Eaton when I get to that project. Think their leaf springs are quite pricey, but you get what you pay for.
Eddie
ESPO told me that they are made 50 at a time...whether or not that means they get them made for them in 50's or what, I dont know.
Again, Im just taking 2 leafs out of my old ones and shoving them in my new ones and we will see how that works out.
50 at a time kinda of makes me wonder if they are Eagle specific?
Doug,
I agree with you, twenty five sets of springs is a bit of inventory to carry for one application.
Eddie
Well they are basically a phone-in operation that orders their parts from warehouses and are drop-shipped to the customer, so technically if you have one manufacturer providing the springs for many companies its really not a high number.
Its possible that the few places that sell the cheap springs all have the same manufacturer...I believe there was 3 places mentioned.
Quote from: Shin-X on March 28, 2008, 07:05:06 PM
ESPO told me that they are made 50 at a time...whether or not that means they get them made for them in 50's or what, I dont know.
Again, Im just taking 2 leafs out of my old ones and shoving them in my new ones and we will see how that works out.
I would really like to know how to go about doing that. I will appreciate tips and pictures if possible.
I measured leaf springs on a Cherokee today, very quickly, they are very close to the 52 inch length mentioned above. The bolts and bushings seem to be bigger or heavier than the Eagle.
It shouldn't be hard to work with, and Terra used to make a pair of swivel shackles that I used on my Cherokee that would give some real articulation on the trail. There was enough axle movement available to warrant longer brake lines. And a retaining pin could be snapped on to lock them into a rigid road configuration. When they were pinned up, you couldn't tell any difference from the stock mountings. I don't remember what they cost, and I don't know if Terra is even still around, or if they still make them. Those or another shackle could be used to mount a set of Jeep springs more easily, perhaps. This Terra system didn't add any significant lift, just provided extra travel, mostly in the downward swing, and only while un-pinned.
But the length of the springs is close enough to be worth a closer look. Maybe remove a spring from a Cherokee leaf pack if it's too stiff.
mike
I've seeing the shackles you are referring to they are call the Revolver I think.
Quote from: jim on March 28, 2008, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: Shin-X on March 28, 2008, 07:05:06 PM
ESPO told me that they are made 50 at a time...whether or not that means they get them made for them in 50's or what, I dont know.
Again, Im just taking 2 leafs out of my old ones and shoving them in my new ones and we will see how that works out.
I would really like to know how to go about doing that. I will appreciate tips and pictures if possible.
Sorry Jim, I wont be doing it myself...My mechanic will be doing it for me. He says hes done it a lot before. Not sure what all is involved. My own mechanical abilities range somewhere between none and limited.
Revolver was the name.
If these spring applications are compatible with each other, maybe the two sets of leaves could be combined in some manner for soft initial travel, and progressively stiffer rates, like two Eagle leafs and a Cherokee one, or something.
Shin-x,
I was thinking along those lines. My thoughts were to get a set of Cherokee springs and disassemble them and use all but the main leaf, leave the Eagle main leaf in place, add Cherokee leaves until you get the ride and height you want. It can be done without removing Eagle main leaf, jack the car up by frame, let the axle droop, remove the u bolts, clamp leaves together with a heavy duty c-clamp, remove spring center bolt, release the c-clamp,, remove the leaves, then slide the Cherokee leaves in place, align the center bolt hole, clamp the leaves back together with c-clamp, install the center bolt and ubolts, depending on the thickness of the Cherokke springs, you may have to get longer ubolts. I did a ford pickup like this one time, I got another set of springs, cut the eyes off main leaf, and used the entire spring along with the main leaf on the truck, gave it more load capacity.
Eddie
Shin-X, your thread has turned into a general discussion about sagging springs and remedies, more than ESPO springs.
Wouild you prefer this to move to a new thread?
In the meantime, one of my concerns with combining springs is knowing which leaf to add .
I saw Eddie's post about how to decide how many. I suppose his method would work when combining Eagle springs.
No I dont mind, this is all relevant information in my books so its good its all here.....if you dont get ESPO springs you need to know what else works and doesnt as well.
I talked to my mechanic today and what we are going to do is take the two longest leafs out of my current springs, cut the ends off so the first ends up being about 2 inches shorter then the biggest one, then the next under that.
So it will go new spring (with the eyelets and such)
old spring with eyelets cut off, two inches shorter than the first one.
then the rest of the new ones and one of the old ones, with one of them cut down a bit so they arent the same length.
So it should hold the rear end up and also lift it up to the same height as my front end.
Sorry, Unfortunately I am not good at explaining this as he is the one who knows what hes talking about and im just trying to explain it back the way I understood it. ;D
Thanks. I think it will be quite clear when I take the time to cipher it out.
Do you know how he plans to cut the leaf? I wonder if a torch would destroy the temper?
Yup, a torch will destroy the temper, an angle grinder does the job in two minutes.
referring to what eddie said:
Quote from: bigdog56e on March 29, 2008, 08:23:43 AM
My thoughts were to get a set of Cherokee springs and disassemble them and use all but the main leaf, leave the Eagle main leaf in place, add Cherokee leaves until you get the ride and height you want. It can be done without removing Eagle main leaf, jack the car up by frame, let the axle droop, remove the u bolts, clamp leaves together with a heavy duty c-clamp, remove spring center bolt, release the c-clamp,, remove the leaves, then slide the Cherokee leaves in place, align the center bolt hole, clamp the leaves back together with c-clamp, install the center bolt and ubolts, depending on the thickness of the Cherokke springs, you may have to get longer ubolts. I did a ford pickup like this one time, I got another set of springs, cut the eyes off main leaf, and used the entire spring along with the main leaf on the truck, gave it more load capacity.
Eddie
apparently, this is quite a common thing amongst jeepers. most commonly a set of chevy s10 springs is used, but dodge dakota springs are common as well as ford f-series leaf packs since they are all 2.5" wide just like cherokee springs and eagle springs. they call it "hybrid springs" or a "inconsiderate person pack". apparently on a stock jeep cherokee, a set of s10 springs added to the main leaf results in lift from about 3 to 4 inches. and this type of setup is said to be very resilient to sagging because the truck springs are designed for more load. ever since you guys started this thread i've been considering trying this on my eagle to avoid throwing my money away on new springs that go to crap anyway. I was planning on getting the espo's but not anymore.
heres some more info for those interested in giving it a shot themselves:
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/Liftwriteup/s10_pack_PDF.pdf (
warning! large file. dial-up users may want to right-click and "save as")
i've only been researching this for the past week or so, but from what i understand, the s-10 springs have a free arch of around 10.5". according to the information provided by KC general spring here: (http://www.generalspringkc.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=41&pg=1) the sx/4 springs have a free arch of 7.125" and the wagon springs have only 5.125" or 5.625".
additionally that page indicates that the sx/4 and wagon springs are designed for a load of 540lbs and ~400lbs, respectively. whereas this literature by superlift on page 109 (http://www.superlift.com/media/AG102.pdf) indicates pickup truck springs are designed for a much heavier load. i'd be more interested in finding out the
spring rate of those stock truck springs but i haven't found any definitive numbers on that yet.
additionally, one would need to know the free arch of cherokee springs to get a very very rough idea of what kind of lift might result from doing this to an eagle. but none of that takes into account differences in vehicle weight, weight distribution, etc...
anyway, as i said, think i'll give it a shot with my eagle unless i find something along the way that radically indicates it will end in catastrophe
What Jurjen said...he will not be using a torch for that reason.
My mechanic has pretty much everything in his garage...even a machine press for the wheel bearings, so hes always got the proper tool to use.
About 5 pages back someone was using the XJ Cherokee springs, sounded like you just need to add a bushing to the rear eye to get it to work. Lots of them in this area in the salvage yards. I need rear leaves too and had been thinking espo's but not anymore. I have bought eaton springs for my Bronco, fit perfect and have been on 3 years but they were kind of expensive. I think I'm going to try the salvage yards now that it's warming up. Thanks for the heads up on the espo's springs.
You might want to read that again. I was the only one who mentioned Cherokee springs. The Cherokee springs DID work great, though. On my Cherokee. ;D
mike
A band saw with lots of cutting fluid would be ideal. The kind they have at plumbing stores and machine shops, where you tilt the band saw down and it puts the weight over the blade as it cuts. Then you can stand back and monitor the flow of the cutting fluid, no work. If nothing else, it would be worth it to pay the minimum 25 bucks or whatever at a machine shop to have them sawed that way. They's probably even dress the edges of the cut for you.
mike
Persons here on the Nest with Model 30 Eagles have successfully used the Cherokee springs with the correct replacement bushings.
Doug,
I thought someone had used Cherokee springs. Depending on number of leaves and thickness, may have to remove a leaf or two to get height and ride just where you want it. Think maybe PR is using Cherokee springs.
Eddie
I will have to look to see how many leaves mine has.
Well the springs on my 86 almost have a reversed arch so doing some searching I found this company http://thesuspensionking.com/catalog/tables/amc_rear.php .
Anyone have any experience with them? I wonder if these companies are getting their springs all from the same place. I may experiment with a used Cherokke pack and the Eagle pack.
Update on my springs from McVeighs' Truck Springs, Inc. They have flattened out also. I put a 1" lift on at the same time I installed these springs and we put my old stock springs on a same year AMC Sedan instead of my Wagon and the Sedan without a lift sits higher in the rear than my wagon now with the new springs??? UGHHH!!!!
My ESPO springs are not even a year old on the car and they have now flattened out quite a while ago.
So far we have ESPO, KCSprings, and McVeigh that have flattened.
Has anyone bought new springs that performed well?
O, KC
IMO, any spring made to the Eagle spec is going to flatten, the materail thickness of the Eagle spring is might thin as compared to other springs.
Eddie
I think the springs could be made to the Eagle spec, but made from a thicker material and not sag.
Eddie
I have no problem replacing mine with springs not from a Eagle I just want to try and keep the nice ride it has now, for the same reason I have not just put a add-a-leaf I dont want to stiffen it up a bunch.
thanks for the report on McVeigh's, I was considering a pair from them, think now I'll just have the originals re arched and a leaf added at the local truck spring shop, they can't be any worse than what's available
I don't plan to do any spring work soon, as I have already bought 2 sets.
When I do get ready again I may check with Superior Spring in North Little Rock, Arkansas.
Allen reminded me about them when we were at the Tama meet.
They are an old truck spring company.
After studying the frame measurement drawing in Eaglepedia, I see why we may problems with the springs. If you look at the drawing for the spring measurement (52-1/2") the measurement line is drawn straight. If you place the axle underneath the line with weight on the eyes (imagine putting a stick across your thigh) it would flatten out. The only way to keep any arch in it would be to stiffen it so it would ride like a truck and where it is mounted the lift would be to much to keep up with an IFS front end. My though is to move the spring to the bottom of the axle and use possibly 73-87 1/2t Chevy truck springs with the overloads removed and a 3" lift (compensate axle diameter). Even with the increased lift the ride shouldn't be to bad and springs would have a better availability. Any thoughts?
McVeighs' Truck Springs i put these on my sx/4 i had no problems yet. i want my rear leafs to level out my back of the car sit much higher then the front.
Called McVeigh's last week - they don't have any more SX/4 springs, which are 4-leaf and springover mount. They only have 1 set of Spirit springs, which are 3-leaf and springunder mount.
OK... so I just read every single reply to this thread and I still have no idea where to go from here. Has anyone figured this out yet?
I intend on buying the front Espo springs (along with the entire front end kit - tie rods, ball joints, etc etc etc), and I was going to buy the rear leaf springs as well... but obviously, not now.
So, I'm guessing with the new springs in the front and the spacer I bought (says 3" lift, but I know better), I'm guessing I'll gain at least 4" in the front.
I do have a lift kit for the rear, which is kind of like a spacer as well... it drops the the leafs lower, but I need to buy new springs and I don't know where to get them. Just like everyone else... I don't want them sagging in a year.
Also, I am totally game for custom modding if someone can point me in the right direction... the Cherokee springs was my first thought, but from the posts - I can't tell if they would/did work or if someone was pretty sure they would. Something about the rear bushing?
Can someone make this simple and say " Go here ----, and buy these springs ----, and slap them on just like this ---". Simplify it for me, wouldja? :P
The suspension king leafs have done well on my car. The passenger side sprnig buckled, but considering the old one did as well, I'm thinking the problem is not the spring. Not a bad price either.
Quote from: Mavericke on January 25, 2010, 03:09:01 AM
OK... so I just read every single reply to this thread and I still have no idea where to go from here. Has anyone figured this out yet?
Yeah, I still don't know where I should buy new leaf springs from either. I'm going to be ordering some pretty soon, so I want to get ones that don't sag.
I've had good luck with ESPO's front end bushings, but I don't want to get springs that will sag worse than the ones I have in less than a year. Since the McVeigh ones have also been reported to flatten, the options I'm considering are;
-The Suspension King
-General Spring
-Eaton
-& still possibly the notorious ESPO ones.
So has anyone else had either good or bad results from any of these?
I'm just wanting to restore my stock ride height, because I can't even see the tops of my rear tires when looking at it from the side. Looking at chart at General Spring, I find it interesting that AMC used lower load rated springs for the heavier Eagles. ??? But other sources confirm this was the case with Eagles having the 385-435 lb rated springs vs. the Concords with 600+lb rated springs. Could have something to do with having over-mounted vs. under-mounted springs though. :-\
I wouldn't mind having the 740 lb rated Cherokee springs, but I don't really want to modify anything, even if it is fairly simple.
I will probably get my coils from ESPO still, since there haven't been any bad reports about them. I'm just concerned about getting saggy leaf springs.
Coils from ESPO lifted my 88.
Leaf springs from them were flat when installed.
KC Springs were also flat when installed.
I have helper springs from O'Reilly's. It takes 2 sets because they work on the spring in front of
or behind the axle, so I put on a set in both places. I don't like them.
Quote from: jim on February 28, 2010, 10:52:07 PM
Coils from ESPO lifted my 88.
Leaf springs from them were flat when installed.
KC Springs were also flat when installed.
I have helper springs from O'Reilly's. It takes 2 sets because they work on the spring in front of
or behind the axle, so I put on a set in both places. I don't like them.
Thanks for the info Jim.
I wouldn't mind having the front a little lifted as long as the rear matched, or at least reasonably close.
I don't like the idea of needing helper springs on brand new springs, so ESPO and KC are probably out of the question.
I may even consider having some made from that place mentioned earlier in the thread, if the price isn't too bad.
I'd have them made to Eagle size specs, but with a 650 lb load rating (if possible).
ok reading this entire thread for the first time I am actually considering going to a spring under setup and getting a hevier and taller arch to compensate for the falttening out issue the taller arch will resist the sag better and heaveir load rating will also resist the sag. but at the cost of the smooth ride.
now there is still one route that it seems that everyone here is not looking at but ths way means a larger kick to the pocket book...
Air suspention???? I know there are kits out there for just about anything and with the upper portion of our front suspention being close to a mustangs front suspention and then use a air helper for the rear but then there is the other issue... where to put all the equipment. under the rear floor would really be the only option and then you would no longer have that hidden storage area...
I saw pimp my ride do an air bag setup on an old wagoneer using the "helper" type of air bag. it seemed to work well.
After reading this entire thread I think I'm going to have mine custom made from thicker steel to see if that helps with the sag. mine are beginning to sag but not too bad.
Air adjustable shocks were an option. Some members have them. Some have added air shocks, both
with (I think) and without the on board compressor.
Yeah, I have air shocks on the SX/4 and it rides really rough. I need to get some springs.
I'm not sure if these guys were mentioned in this thread. http://www.stengelbros.com/ I contacted them regarding front leaf springs for my Metro and expressed my concern about new springs flattening in less than a year. He said they didn't have that problem because of the steel they use. However I have no experience with buying springs from them. Just another option.
I looked at their site. They actually list AMC and Eagle.
$129.56 w/ free shipping doesn't sound at all bad.
Quote from: eaglefreek on March 01, 2010, 06:46:21 PM
I'm not sure if these guys were mentioned in this thread. http://www.stengelbros.com/ I contacted them regarding front leaf springs for my Metro and expressed my concern about new springs flattening in less than a year. He said they didn't have that problem because of the steel they use. However I have no experience with buying springs from them. Just another option.
Thanks for the link eaglefreek. I am definitely going to consider them, especially since they offer a heavier 535 lb one. I'm really liking the price and free shipping too. The heavy one is an inch higher than stock, but will probably look level with the higher sitting ESPO coils. They also seem to take pride in their products and keep their stuff American made, and they are close to WV too.
I also found another source for leaf springs but have not purchased from him. They list springs for a number of AMCs, including Eagles and they call out SX4/Kammback's separately. The prices seem reasonable. Here is the link
www.thesuspensionking.com
I was looking for some leaf springs for my Gremlin, and asked about the quality of his springs. This was his response:
I manufacture in Pittsburgh with USA steel Hi grade 5160H. I temper them to a hardness of a 51 Rockwell. I've been doing this since 1973. I use original equipment blueprints. If you need ubolts, please go to our ubolt section, you will need to take a few measurements. They are extra.
Thanks again,
Jason
Quote from: vangremlin on March 03, 2010, 10:35:58 PM
I also found another source for leaf springs but have not purchased from him. They list springs for a number of AMCs, including Eagles and they call out SX4/Kammback's separately. The prices seem reasonable. Here is the link
www.thesuspensionking.com
I was looking for some leaf springs for my Gremlin, and asked about the quality of his springs. This was his response:
I manufacture in Pittsburgh with USA steel Hi grade 5160H. I temper them to a hardness of a 51 Rockwell. I've been doing this since 1973. I use original equipment blueprints. If you need ubolts, please go to our ubolt section, you will need to take a few measurements. They are extra.
Thanks again,
Jason
Yeah, I saw that place too, they look like a nice place to do business. They are also really close to my area too. I really like that they, and the other two places that I found have American made steel. Because I insist that any steel I buy be made in USA (Cars included) because many of my family members have made their livings in the Steel Mill.
As of now, I think I'm going to get my leafs from Stengel Brothers because they have the highest load rated springs (535 lb), and have free shipping. I will probably still get my Coils from ESPO along with the leaf spring bushings, shackles and u-bolts. That's still a month or two away before I order, so things may change, but I'm thinking that's the plan for now.
Also, I thought my springs were starting to rise back up with the warmer weather, but after I filled it with gas today, they sagged back down to the normal spot.
I kind of forgot how much weight in gas that big tank holds. ;D
Just ordered a set from
Stengel Bros. Inc.
Spring, Suspension, and Steering Specialists
$296 Set W/ shipping they are heavy duty, rated at 535 Vs 435 (standard).
http://www.stengelbros.com/
Quote from: KiteWagon on April 02, 2010, 03:59:26 PM
Just ordered a set from
Stengel Bros. Inc.
Spring, Suspension, and Steering Specialists
$296 Set W/ shipping they are heavy duty, rated at 535 Vs 435 (standard).
http://www.stengelbros.com/
Awesome. Yeah, I'm definitely goings to get my springs from there because I like the 535lb rating, plus made in USA.
Give us an update on how easy they go in and what additional bushings are needed. Maybe even a pic of the new stance. ;)
Will do, I ordered a poly rear leaf busing kit from Summit. Getting new rubber all around (Cooper, Discoverer ATR, 225/70 15). Also completely redoing front end - bushings, Steering Stabilizer, springs (espo), and shocks all the way around (KYB Gas-a-Just Shocks and Struts).
Having the half-shafts/CV axles rebuilt; found a local shop with a good reputation – uses all American made components - $60 per.
It will be a few weeks at best before I get parts and everything installed. This round of parts is costing me around $1,600 (twice what I paid for the car) so the old bird better ride like new or better.
Before pic – sitting low, I suspect original springs and rear leafs.
(http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/47409/2089882000106038078S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2089882000106038078KPdqOc)
Awesome Kitewagon, thanks for posting the before pic even. Mine is riding even lower than that with a full tank of gas. It's kinda bad that I can use the rear end height as a gas gauge. ;D I'm gonna change mine next month, plus the front springs as well.
I really like the look of your Eagle, it has a really sporty look. Your new suspension will really set it off.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. :)
Quote from: KiteWagon on April 02, 2010, 03:59:26 PM
Just ordered a set from
Stengel Bros. Inc.
Spring, Suspension, and Steering Specialists
$296 Set W/ shipping they are heavy duty, rated at 535 Vs 435 (standard).
http://www.stengelbros.com/
Hey KiteWagon, have you gotten your springs from Stengel Bros. yet? If so, how long did they take to arrive?
I ordered mine a week ago, and I was wondering about how long they take to come in.
They only took 3 days to build the springs and ship. I think I received them one week after placing the order.
30 minutes ago I just finished installing the 2nd side. Springs come with frame (forward) bushing installed look identical to springs I removed (assume factory) and fit just fine. Still need to finish up a few things and bring the car off stands. Should have pics posted in a few days.
Quote from: KiteWagon on May 12, 2010, 10:15:18 PM
They only took 3 days to build the springs and ship. I think I received them one week after placing the order.
30 minutes ago I just finished installing the 2nd side. Springs come with frame (forward) bushing installed look identical to springs I removed (assume factory) and fit just fine. Still need to finish up a few things and bring the car off stands. Should have pics posted in a few days.
Awesome, glad to hear you're making good progress. Mine should be here any day now then, and I can get started next week on changing my springs.
I will post some pics on the thread I have going too when I start making progress. Can't wait to see how yours sits with the new equipment. :)
Hey guys I know the threads been dry for almost a year . But I was just wondering how the springs turned out from stengelbros and how well they are holding up.
The springs I got from Stengel Brothers are holding up really well. I'm am just running the springs by themselves without helpers. So they will sag slightly with a full tank of gas and a load in the cargo area, but hardly noticeable. I am very pleased with the new ride as well.
Has anyone used the leaf springs from thesuspensionking.com?
Quote from: Eagle1984 on October 11, 2011, 07:32:58 PM
Has anyone used the leaf springs from thesuspensionking.com?
I haven't bought from him yet but I have corresponded with him. Sounds like he sells a quality product, and he will tailor make the springs to provide a lift if you want one.
In my experience, Eagle rear leafs usually are pretty flat in normal position. Concord and Spirit will still have some arch left but not Eagles.
con
Does http://www.stengelbros.com/ still not charge shipping or do they charge now. Will the higher weight rated springs not wear out as fast or badly as the normal ones. Trying to figure if the higher cost is worth it.
Anybody have updates on springs they have purchased? I'm looking to get a set and would like to get the best quality that I can. I plan to put in a helper spring or add-a-leaf if I have too. I just don't want to buy some junk springs that go flat in 6 months.
My springs from Stengel Brothers have held up well. They've been on there for almost 2 years now with no sag. I got the 525 lb load ones, and used ESPO's shackle kit, which is about an inch longer shackle than stock, and works well with the front springs from ESPO. Many people say the ESPO springs raised their front end higher than the rear, but I actually have a little higher stance in the rear because of the longer shackles. They give a firm but comfortable ride and have a decent spring rate for a little bit better handling too with the KYB shocks I put on all four corners.
I ordered a custom set from Stengell today. I asked for the standard pack they have listed on the website and asked for an extra leaf to be added. They were $150 a piece to set them up this way and they will give me about an inch lift over stock. These are for the SX/4 by the way. I'm sure it is similar for the wagon and sedan.
Their springs are rated at 540lbs as a four pack and with the extra leaf I should be close to 570lbs or better. That will stiffen the ride a bit but help with the big bumps. ;)
Hey everyone...
I did not read through this entire thread but I just wanted to let everyone know where I had my springs done at. I had my rear springs redone over 10 years ago and I had them custom made by a place called Babcock Spring in Milwaukee, WI.
http://www.babcockspring.com/
They have been great and they propped up the back end up in the air perfect.... but they were so stiff they cracked one of the rear mounting plates on the drivers side... so that side sags a bit... but the other side is awesome. I can't wait to get the other side fixed.
Anyway... they are a great place to get spring at... east to work with and very high quality.
JB
Been there. very professioal work.
Ah... cool... They really were great to work with... and they make a spring specifically for the sagging AMC's!!
Quote from: mudkicker715 on July 08, 2012, 06:35:56 PM
Been there. very professioal work.