AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Suspension, Steering, Brakes, Wheels & Tires => Topic started by: DarthGremlin on January 31, 2011, 09:11:35 PM
-
So today I had the Cherokee wheels put on my Eagle that I have had in my garage for a couple weeks. They are the same ones that I had on my '94 Cherokee and I always liked the...thought they would look great on the Eagle.
Anybody else have these on their car?:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg
I’m wondering if there is a problem with these wheels in an Eagle application. I have used a variety of Cherokee wheels on Eagles over the years and didn’t foresee any problems with these, but....
the ride back to my office from the tire shop is fairly low speed and I didn't notice any issues. When I left for home tonight and got on the highway, however, there was a definite change in handling, and not for the better. The thing seemed pretty squirrelly and when I hit a bump at one point the whole thing started to shudder and wobble (!) I slowed down and the shuddering stopped but I still felt like it was not handling nearly as well. Tires are nearly new and 205/75/15.
I watched them balance and install the wheels, so I have no reason to believe that this was not done correctly. Does it sound like the new wheels have exposed a different problem in the front end? Are these wheels just not a good option for the Eagle? (Which would be too bad, because they look cool)
Any thoughts?
-
Sounds like death wobble. It's usually from a worn part in the front suspension. I replaced my steering stabilizer and it fixed it for me or maybe hid the real culprit.
-
i agree with eaglefreek the dreaded "death wobble" how are your front end components? try jacking the front of the car up, grabbing a wheel and see if there is play by moving the sides and top and bottom. If there is no play then i would try a new stabilizer
-
I believe that anything with the right bolt pattern (and those do have it) should work, as long as the tires don't rub.
I second the advice from other members, look for play on front wheels with the car's front jacked up. Mine developed the "death wobble" some time ago and I found out the pitman arm was nearly gone: any harder than usual bump could have disengaged it leaving me with a useless steering system. No good.
Just replacing it (with no need for the stabilizer to be replaced) solved the problem. It's a cheap part, compared to its function, and replacement is easy. Just be sure to have the right extractor tool before even attempting to do that (ask me how I know).
The question now is: why you noticed this after installing new wheels ? Maybe they just develop more drag (larger footprint) and the weak pitman arm showed its limit.
Anyways, you definitely want to check that play: I'm not willing to scare you, but when I found out, and realized what should happen, man I *was* scared ! ;)
-
It did seem that the wobble originated in the front end... I think the term "death wobble" tells me all I need to know. Thanks to all of you for the advice!
casper, I have a two-tone blue wagon. I think the wheels look great and will be doing what I can to keep them...I'll try to post some pics of the car, but I wont see it in the daylight again til Saturday.
-
No problems with my 94 kee rims on my sedan
-
Just rotating tires can sometimes bring on death wobble. So I can see how a different set of tires could do it. Research death wobble on the net. Many things like worn hub bearings, alignment, worn bushings, etc can cause DW. I got a bad case of DW in this 6000LB beast going 70 mph through Glenwood Canyon. I ne
eded a change of shorts after that.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/Quigley2.jpg)
-
Make sure the rim is setting flush against the hub. The center bore on the alum rim may not be large enough to clear the axle protrusion extending beyond the face of the hub. Some of these tire shops will just bolt on and torque to kingdpom come and never check anything. If they can get a lug nut on it, they think they're good to go. I bought some rims for my concord, same bolt pattern but the center bore was too small and the rims won't sit flush. Now if I were a hack tire store I'd bolt them on carefully and you might not ever know it, well at lesat for a while. I'd be real suspect of suddenly developing the "death wobble" just by changing rims and tires.
-
What rims are we talking about. Here's my 94 kee rims
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc55/mudkicker715/2011-02-01143349.jpg)
-
What did you do with the three small retainer bolts that hold the drum?
When you leave them in the rim may not be flush with the drum and cause all kinds of wobbling.
I removed the three bolts and drilled the holes with a countersunk drill and used appropriate screws to hold drums.
-
Just rotating tires can sometimes bring on death wobble. So I can see how a different set of tires could do it. Research death wobble on the net. Many things like worn hub bearings, alignment, worn bushings, etc can cause DW. I got a bad case of DW in this 6000LB beast going 70 mph through Glenwood Canyon. I ne
eded a change of shorts after that.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/Quigley2.jpg)
Sorry for the OT... Is that a Quigley conversion? My boss wants one of those so bad..
-
These are the wheels....the 'swiss cheese' style.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg)
-
Just rotating tires can sometimes bring on death wobble. So I can see how a different set of tires could do it. Research death wobble on the net. Many things like worn hub bearings, alignment, worn bushings, etc can cause DW. I got a bad case of DW in this 6000LB beast going 70 mph through Glenwood Canyon. I ne
eded a change of shorts after that.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/Quigley2.jpg)
Sorry for the OT... Is that a Quigley conversion? My boss wants one of those so bad..
Yes PM me if you have any questions. It was a company vehicle and I drove it for a year through several states.
-
These are the wheels....the 'swiss cheese' style.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg)
Ahh, the pizza wheels. I had those on my '96... You def shouldn't have a problem running those. Just make sure they fit flush with the face of the drum..
-
I got a bad case of DW in this 6000LB beast going 70 mph through Glenwood Canyon. I ne
eded a change of shorts after that.
That is not the place to get handling problems! Glad all you needed was a change of shorts!
-
Do you know where those rims came from? I bought a set of rims for my 1 ton chevy from a buddy, they looked great no gouges scuffs ect. I got that wobble thing real bad about 55mph. I went and rebalanced them, alligned my truck, and replaced a bunch of front end stuf...and still bad wabble after 55mph. Come to find out after the fact those rims were off a truck that had been rolled at the sand dunes. the darn rims were tweeked!! :cussing: I would certainly check out your front end and stabilizing components first but that might be another thing to look into if your not sure of their origion.
P.S they are some hot lookin rims though...ill bet they look smokin on an eagle...Best of luck...and may the force be with you
shane
-
I was just wondering...Did the vehicle do any of that wobble stuff before the swap... or did it happen immediatly after the rim swap? Now im curious...
-
Prior to installing these wheels, I had one incident that I sort of dismissed as my imagination, as it never repeated. Whatever it was, it was obviously amplified by the change in footprint.
That's a great point about where the wheels came from....when I got them, they were stacked behind someone's garage, so no idea on the history.
-
Here is the car with the new wheels...I like the look. Now to figure out what needs to be replaced...
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/Eagle_new_wheels.jpg)
-
Looks good. Yup, those tires and wheels really fill up the wheel openings. I can see why you are having clearance issues.
-
So far, no rubbing issues. It is amazing how much bigger they look now with those rims. They are the same 205/75/15 tires (one size larger than original?) that were on the stock wheels. They looked tiny on the old wheels. The new wheels are 1 inch wider than the stock wheels....that's the only difference. But they look so much different!
-
So far, no rubbing issues. It is amazing how much bigger they look now with those rims. They are the same 205/75/15 tires (one size larger than original?) that were on the stock wheels. They looked tiny on the old wheels. The new wheels are 1 inch wider than the stock wheels....that's the only difference. But they look so much different!
No problems with clip balancing weights on the inside of the wheel? My camber on my driver side is pretty much cranked out all the way and I have to have tape weights on the inside or they rub....
-
Kudos to to tougeagle! It is clear that the clip on wheel weights were probably the first thing to go, as there is not enough clearance. Can I go to any tire shop and they will have tape weights and balance my wheels? Not saying this is the only problem, but its a start.
-
Kudos to to tougeagle! It is clear that the clip on wheel weights were probably the first thing to go, as there is not enough clearance. Can I go to any tire shop and they will have tape weights and balance my wheels? Not saying this is the only problem, but its a start.
Any reputable tire shop will have tape weights. if they don't, about-face and never look back.
-
Any shop that deals in higher end custom rims will do it....lots of those flashy after market rims use those tape on weights.
By the way...very sweet ride...those rims look quite beefy!!
-
Now to figure out what needs to be replaced...
My guess is that Steelers sticker!
j/k
I like those wheels. Looks like they should've came on an Eagle.
-
Here is the car with the new wheels...I like the look. Now to figure out what needs to be replaced...
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/Eagle_new_wheels.jpg)
Your rear leafs :P I know a place that has several eagles and could ship a set of springs to you. Shipping would be painful though, the pair is around 150lbs...
Looks like you have the same rear centercap problem I do. I ended up just leaving all of mine off...
Very sweet ride though :D
-
Follow up: I got the wheels re-balanced with the tape weights and it drives straight and true again. This thread has emphasized that I will now systematically replace front end components as time and money permit to make sure the car is safe to drive.
Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion!
-
awesome!! next time we meet you better be crusing your eagle ..... and i will try harder to bring mine too ;D
-
Anybody else have these on their car?:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg
I’m wondering if there is a problem with these wheels in an Eagle application. I have used a variety of Cherokee wheels on Eagles over the years and didn’t foresee any problems with these, but....
the ride back to my office from the tire shop is fairly low speed and I didn't notice any issues. When I left for home tonight and got on the highway, however, there was a definite change in handling, and not for the better. The thing seemed pretty squirrelly and when I hit a bump at one point the whole thing started to shudder and wobble (!) I slowed down and the shuddering stopped but I still felt like it was not handling nearly as well. Tires are nearly new and 205/75/15.
Im pretty sure its irrelevant but for a small period of time when i was in high school, my dad picked up an 88 comanche with those, and it wobbled bad at high speeds too, probably coincidence but yeah
-
Anybody else have these on their car?:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg
I’m wondering if there is a problem with these wheels in an Eagle application. I have used a variety of Cherokee wheels on Eagles over the years and didn’t foresee any problems with these, but....
the ride back to my office from the tire shop is fairly low speed and I didn't notice any issues. When I left for home tonight and got on the highway, however, there was a definite change in handling, and not for the better. The thing seemed pretty squirrelly and when I hit a bump at one point the whole thing started to shudder and wobble (!) I slowed down and the shuddering stopped but I still felt like it was not handling nearly as well. Tires are nearly new and 205/75/15.
Im pretty sure its irrelevant but for a small period of time when i was in high school, my dad picked up an 88 comanche with those, and it wobbled bad at high speeds too, probably coincidence but yeah
That's all front suspension. You need to check out your idler arm, pitman arm and steering stabilizer, it will do that with any wheel on, some may just exaggerate the problem
-
Anybody else have these on their car?:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n555/darthgremlin/jeepwheel2.jpg
I’m wondering if there is a problem with these wheels in an Eagle application. I have used a variety of Cherokee wheels on Eagles over the years and didn’t foresee any problems with these, but....
the ride back to my office from the tire shop is fairly low speed and I didn't notice any issues. When I left for home tonight and got on the highway, however, there was a definite change in handling, and not for the better. The thing seemed pretty squirrelly and when I hit a bump at one point the whole thing started to shudder and wobble (!) I slowed down and the shuddering stopped but I still felt like it was not handling nearly as well. Tires are nearly new and 205/75/15.
Im pretty sure its irrelevant but for a small period of time when i was in high school, my dad picked up an 88 comanche with those, and it wobbled bad at high speeds too, probably coincidence but yeah
That's all front suspension. You need to check out your idler arm, pitman arm and steering stabilizer, it will do that with any wheel on, some may just exaggerate the problem
lol it doesnt matter anymore, my dad only had it for a month-ish and its been gone for about 2 years