NEED HELP FAST

[Longhunter]

All,
    As you may have seen in my question "CA to TX quick fix questions" my daughter is driving my newly purchased Eagle from CA to TX. Well two hours after they left Las Vegas last evening on the way to the Grand Canyon the car broke down. They are currently in Colorado City, AZ.

My daughter says as they are going down the highway the car will slow down to about 15 mph. She gives it gas and can hear the engine revving but the car does not speed up. Also the temp gauge stays normal.

Since they broke down in the city they saw a repair place and walked to it. The guy there said he once had the same problem and stated it is the coil heating up. I do not think this is accurate since it is 110F out there now and they had been on the road for two hours doing fine when this happened. I am leaning more to the transmission since the engine revs, which to me means getting fuel and the temp gauge is not spiking so not the coolant system.

My daughter is not sure what the mechanic in Las Vegas did to the transmission other than put ATF in it. As per "djm3452004" from this site I told her NOT to have them flush the system.

Any ideas as to what it could be. Once they get up this morning I am going to have them call a transmission shop unless someone here tells me different. I just do not think it is a coil issue.

Thank you.

 

[Mitch]

The transfer case may have slipped into "false neutral".

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/How_To_Manually_Shift_the_Transfer_Case

[Longhunter]

Mitch,
         Never heard of that but OK. I will send this to my daughter so when she wakes up they will have this info before they start calling repair shops.

So is this still applicable if after they pull over and let the car sit a little while it then drives semi-normal before going back to the 15 mph mode?

Thank you.

[Taylor]

I wonder if the transmission might be overheating? Might be something to ask the shop.

[johnbendik]

I second Mitch's diagnosis.  I have a 5-speed Eagle, and it once had a problem that felt just like a slipping clutch: the engine would rev up without the car going faster.

It turned out that the hydraulic linkage that moved the transfer case lever was malfunctioning, and leaving the lever in the in-between position, resulting in the dreaded 'false neutral'.

The good news is that the temporary fix is simple: simply disconnect the activating rod from the hydraulic cylinder and 'hard-wire' the transfer case lever in the desired position; either fully rearward for all-wheel drive or fully forward to disconnect the front axle.  Y'all can probably do it with hand tools on the side of the road.

Good luck,
JB

[djm3452004]

I second Mitch's diagnosis.  I have a 5-speed Eagle, and it once had a problem that felt just like a slipping clutch: the engine would rev up without the car going faster.

It turned out that the hydraulic linkage that moved the transfer case lever was malfunctioning, and leaving the lever in the in-between position, resulting in the dreaded 'false neutral'.

The good news is that the temporary fix is simple: simply disconnect the activating rod from the hydraulic cylinder and 'hard-wire' the transfer case lever in the desired position; either fully rearward for all-wheel drive or fully forward to disconnect the front axle.  Y'all can probably do it with hand tools on the side of the road.

Good luck,
JB

The transfer case actuation is vacuum-operated, to the best of my knowledge, on all of these cars after '81 regardless of the year.  I want to say '85 was the first year of "shift-on-the fly" 4wd where the little 4wd lever/vacuum switch did not have the lock mechanism.  I suppose it could be possible that someone's knee could have bumped the lever over slightly to the 4wd side, setting up a false neutral as it's been stated, or the switch vibrated itself that direction after a couple of days of driving. 

For all we know, the little plastic shift lever bushing in the transmission shift lever from the shift linkage half-disintegrated and the shift lever is wandering around not knowing where it's supposed to be.

Our hopes would be that it could be something that simple, or it could be possible that the forward clutches in the trans just gave up the ghost due to the heat and stress.  Without knowing whether the car had any movement at all under any gear including reverse, it's hard to guess from the description, except to guess that bad clutches would probably not be an immediate problem but a gradually-worsening problem.


Some transmission-related questions to ask your daughter and boyfriend:

1.  Does the engine only start in Neutral and Park?  Is there more play in the shifter handle than when they started driving?  A "no" and "yes" to these questions could imply a shift linkage problem.
2.  What is the transmission fluid level when idling in Neutral on flat ground?  What is the color of the fluid?  Does it smell burned?
3.  Put the car into each gear individually, including reverse.  Does the vehicle move in any gear and if so, which one(s)? 
4.  Any massive red puddles or obvious leaks to suggest that they're suddenly losing copious amounts of ATF?
5.  When the car is cool, remove the radiator cap.  Is there any transmission fluid floating at the top of the radiator?  If yes, the in-radiator trans cooler has failed and both systems are now contaminated.


This is all that springs to mind right now as I'm pondering the problem description, hopefully others can continue to chime in...

David

[Canoe]

(all in Eagle wagon)

I've had a coil that was going and would loose power when it got hot. Wait to cool down, ran fine until it heated up. BUT, the engine was not reving but loosing RPM until none. New coil solved it. That doesn't sound like what they're experiencing. But a dying coil may present differently from what I experienced.

I've had the front clutch in the trans toasted cause the PRND21 selector linkage wasn't properly adjusted. It first presented as: once heated up it would start slipping and lose drive power for reduced speed for the engine rpm. Let it cool down, and it would drive normal until heated up again. It got worse and then reverse stopped working. Picking parking spots was tricky. New front clutch in the trans...

I've also had a trans loose power like that once.  Low trans fluid level meant when it heated up the fluid got foamed and doesn't pump well: engine would rev but Eagle just wasn't moving as much as it should. Once it cooled down and wasn't foamy anymore, it would drive fine until it heated up and foamed again. Given that you just had the trans fluid changed...
With the Eagle warmed up, stop, foot on brake, run through D, R, N, D and back a few times, staying five seconds or so in each. Then shut it off, check the trans dipstick. Should have fluid on it (even splashed up if somewhat low); should not be foamed. Wipe it off, then check the level.

The next time the get the engine-running-but-no-moving-power, shut it off and check the trans dipstick to see if it's nice and clear or foamed up.

We need the answers to johnbendick's questions.
Additionally, if there's coolant in the trans fluid (the in-radiator trans-cooler), the trans fluid usually goes a bright strawberry pink and is foamed a bit. Bright Strawberry Pink is very distinctive from low-fluid foaming.

[Longhunter]

Hello all,
             Got it to a transmission shop in Colorado City, AZ. The fluid was a quart low but no other problems. The shop dropped the transmission pan and changed the filter. The filter was pretty clean. Added fluid to level and the shop took it for a drive and everything was fine. Switched from two wheel to four wheel a couple of times and everything was fine. Not sure how he would know the switch worked, maybe by sound or something. While there they turned the front two rotors.

Once shop was paid kids left Colorado City yesterday afternoon and drove with no problems to the Marriott Hotel at Page, AZ and visited Horseshoe Bend. Total trip time about three hours. Went back to hotel and the car sat for three hours. Came out to go get dinner. Car started and when they turned on headlights and drove about 30 feet car died. Battery light showed on dashboard. Maybe this is standard when it dies. Started again drove about the same distance and car died. Got it started and back in parking lot. Waited about thirty minutes and started it again. Drove around parking lot for what they say was about two miles with lights on and no problems. Did not want to leave parking lot for fear of dying so shut car off.

Maybe not related but a theme my daughter and her boyfriend stated is that both times this has happened they are trying to go uphill and the headlights are on.

In the morning they are going to leave the hotel and head to Flagstaff. I told them to wait until they would not need headlights in case that was an issue. Since the drive from Page to Flagstaff is mostly downhill we will see what happens.

I am definitely not a mechanic. What little I know came from trial and error, or watching a mechanic or being broke down on the side of the road. But I am thinking maybe a vacuum issue or a fuel sending/pickup type thing. I mean if it is not overheating, transmission was just "serviced", alternator is charging the battery, and engine runs like it did for three hours yesterday, and when on level ground, what else could it be? Would the fact that it came from basically sea level to now over 5000 feet elevation have anything to do with it? I thought about that but then again it drove fine for the three hour trip.

Not ruling out the "false neutral" idea johnbendik at all. Just curious as to what would make that happen. Is "hard wiring" it something that the skid plate needs to be dropped for? I believe Mitch's diagram stated that?

I will ask them to do the things David and Canoe mentioned in their posts and see what results we get and post them here. Sorry for all the questions. Me being here in Syria and them there with the ten hour difference does not help with the timeliness of postings.

Any ideas?

[Mitch]

With any electrical issues I've had with an Eagle I always check grounds first, after fuses, of course. There is an important ground point on the firewall in the engine bay between the brake booster and back of the engine. It will have one or more black wires grounded there. It would't hurt to check and insure it's grounded properly.

[Longhunter]

OK. So they are leaving the hotel at Page headed to Flagstaff.

Removed radiator cap no transmission fluid there and nothing other than antifreeze.
Vehicle would not start in any gear other than Park and Neutral.
All fuses are good.

Once on the road and transmission is warm they are going to pull over and conduct test by placing it in the different gears and then checking transmission fluid.

If it dies again will have them perform the check to look for foaming.

If they make it to Flagstaff as a precaution I am going to have a shop wire the 2WD/4WD on the transfer case into 2WD.

Thanks guys for all your help. Hopefully they can get it to Texas.

UPDATE: 1

They made it from Page to Cameron to allow the transmission to warm up. It is about an hour drive. Pulled over and did the gear test by shifting through all the gears and then checking transmission fluid. There was no foam but a few bubbles.

They are continuing on to Flagstaff where they will go to a shop and have the transfer case wired to 2WD only. From there will continue on to Albuquerque.

UPDATE: 2

Made it to Flagstaff with no issues. Found it interesting that most car repair places there were closed on SAT and SUN so those that were open were booked solid. So they decided to grab some chow and continue on to Albuquerque since from Page to Flagstaff they had no issues. Hopefully all goes well.

Once I get it to Texas I will check all electrical wiring and systems as Canoe recommended.

[Canoe]

The trans shop found the fluid level low a quart. Low fluid can cause exactly what you described. That was corrected, and a new filter, and the shop tested it and found it fine. And they tested the 4x4 and report it switched between 4x4 and 2wd (the driving feel is very different when the front wheels are pulling too). There's no way the shop would have missed there being coolant in the trans fluid - it's extremely obvious. And your drivers confirmed by checking the coolant for trans fluid. Turning the two front rotors means any surface rust that may have had some minor raising that didn't come off with their use so far, is removed so it's not hitting the pads as it drives along, which can put a repeating uncommon lateral load on bearings and trash them (although I've not seen that on robust vehicles with robust bearings, like Eagles) - good to have done.

Driving 30 feet and car dying is a new behaviour, hence a new problem. I don't see a need to wire the TC into 2wd.
(great memories of Page AZ, using hardware store plumbing to cobble together a lower rad hose...)

Some electrical problems can be a loose/broken/breaking wire that is intermittent based on positional issues (like up a hill).

• I'd want to trace the wires and connections to the coil (someone said that the coil was going) and unclip the coil connector and reconnect it.
• Disconnect/reconnect for the cable out of the coil to the centre of the dizzy (NOT all of the ignition wires).
• Check the wires & connections from the dizzy to the ignition module and to the harness.

Something may have been left on and partially drained the battery. Alternator would have been carrying the load for running engine and lights - which it should be able to do easily.

• I'd pickup a terminal cleaning tool and clean the battery posts & connector.
• And loosen the positive out from the alternator and re-tighten to get a good electrical connection.
• Same for the negative battery cable where it's bolted to the body.

The first two can fix an issue where something is marginal but when it gets a clean/strong enough connection, it will run fine. The third can be an issue all on its own.

Put a hand on all other electrical wires to be sure there isn't a lose connection.

It's been a while since the Eagle has been driven (seals dry) and under pressure. Make sure they check under the Eagle for leaking fluids every time they stop, and every time they got to get in it and drive.

My Eagle used the low altitude settings/configuration from ~200' ASL to over 12,000 ASL and back down again, and had no issues. If you were spending a lot of time above (6,000?), you'd want to configure the Eagle for that, but you're not, so it shouldn't be an issue.

[johnbendik]

As djm noted, the transfer case actuator is vacuum, not hydraulic, as I well knew.  That was my first time to 'post' without 'preview', and look how it turned out.  *sigh*  I also blame wishful thinking, as the TC actuator is one of many things on the Eagle that I wish were NOT driven by vacuum.

If you do choose to hard-wire the TC into one state or the other, it is easily done with a piece of actual wire, by pulling the lever to either the front or the back and anchoring it with the wire to a nearby point on the undercarriage.  Some Eagle drivers do this to 'lock' our cars into all-wheel drive and eliminate some of the rat's nest of vacuum lines. (This also requires locking the front differential, which is easily done with a hose clamp.)  I've done this to mine.

JB

[Canoe]

... (This also requires locking the front differential, which is easily done with a hose clamp.)  ...

Diff can't lock. You mean the front axle engagement for those years that have it?

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/Front_Axle_Lock (looks like it may be the full-in version)
http://amceaglesden.com/guide/How_To_Manually_Shift_the_Transfer_Case

[Longhunter]

All,
     Latest update.

They made it all the way from Page, AZ to Amarillo, TX with no issues. Stopped there for the night and will hopefully complete the trip today.

I had them put in a bottle of fuel system cleaner in every time they stopped for gas in case the fuel system needed some cleaning since the car had been sitting for basically three years. Also had them use Premium gas versus "regular unleaded" as I was hoping the higher octane would help clean stuff out as well.

I have been reading posts/reviews both good and bad about Gronk Performance. I have tried his website with no luck. Seems like he has steadily been going downhill for quite some time now. I would really like to make the 2100-2150 conversion and get rid of all the clutter of vacuum lines and associated things. Can someone tell me if he is still in business?

Lastly, thank you all for all the help and advice on the issues with the car. I hope it will be OK to reach out to you all once I return from my deployment as there are things I would (like most here) do to the car. If there is anyone sort of close to Lufkin, Fort Hood, or Round Rock, TX areas I would be interested in corresponding concerning having you do some work on the car for payment.

Thank you all again.

[Mitch]

This may help...

http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=45248.msg351152#msg351152