Starter motor dragging

[skuhler]

I recently did the ECM Test and set the specs on the timing accordingly.  The motor now runs great and idles smooth.  But a problem has cropped up and I don't know if it's related or not.  Usually, the first time I hit the starter, it turns right over and fires within about 2 seconds.  After I've driven for a while, I can park it and when I hit the starter, it drags so hard I'm thinking the battery is dead.  If I stop and try it again, it may drag or it may fire right up.

I thought maybe the starter was bad, so I replaced it.  No change.  Then I changed the solenoid, no change.  I've been looking at the threads and think maybe the timing, but why does it run so well if the timing is so far off?  I'm about out of ideas, anyone?

[carnuck]

Timing about 4 degrees too far advanced will do that to you. If you were lucky you could get the reduction style starter and be done with the Ford "dead short" style.

[skuhler]

I'll check that timing again.  Yeah, the starter was off-the-shelf at O'Reilly's.

[skuhler]

I checked the timing.  It was right on 8 degrees.  I adjusted down to 4 and up to 12 and didn't notice a difference.  I'm wondering if the battery is actually weak.  I'm going to put a charge on it and try again.  Any other thoughts?

[IowaEagle]

You really need good battery cables.  Not those cheap Wal-Mart ones.

[skuhler]

Yes, they look small compared to the ones I use on the farm, the one going from the solenoid to the starter looks original, with the woven fiber covering.  The ground looks original, with a replacement end on it.  I prefer the ones where the end is pressed on at the factory. 

[IowaEagle]

These starters, like all similar Ford starters really like to have solid connections and more than minimal cabling,.

[Monkeyjoe]

Yes, they look small compared to the ones I use on the farm, the one going from the solenoid to the starter looks original, with the woven fiber covering.  The ground looks original, with a replacement end on it.  I prefer the ones where the end is pressed on at the factory.

I would look into corrosion or just a dirty connection inside that replacement end.  If you see the insulation bubbled or deformed, the corrosion has traveled up into the cable.  may look innocent but will definitely cause problems.

[IowaEagle]

Fresh cables are always a good thing to do.

[skuhler]

Latest update on this curious problem - the 258 continued to drag, so I adjusted the timing to the closest setting I could.  It worked great, almost all the time.  But not always, so I pulled it in the shop one more time to look and hear for some other issue (like a stuck valve, or something).  This time, I didn't have the shop lights on when I opened the hood.  There, on number 5 cylinder, was a spark from the cable to the block.  What?  Upon closer examination, when I replaced the plugs, I must not have slid the protective sleeve all the way down to the insulation on the plug.  It was arcing from the metal wire end to the block.  I slid the sleeve down all the way and the spark disappeared. 

The underhood sticker says to time at 9 degrees +- 4 at 1600 +- 25 rpm.  I'm guessing that still applies, even after the ECM Test.  The trick was getting it to 1600 since I don't have a handheld tach.  I picked up an optical digital tach from the tool store, and it works just fine, tho.

I'm going to drive it some more and check it out, but I'm thinking that since 5 wasn't always firing, it had increased pressure at startup, resulting in the drag.  What do you think?

Sidebar - why would the wire arc to the block?  I've got an old tractor with no protective sleeve on the plug at all, runs great.

[IowaEagle]

Not sure on the tractor, maybe the coil is not as hot as the one on the Eagle, or the plug wire on the tractor has too much resistance.  Grounding out a plug wire will cause a spark.

[carnuck]

Are you sure on that 1600 RPM? Mine says 600 RPM in gear.

[IowaEagle]

Yeah 550 - 600 is about right in drive.

[Prafeston]

How are you supposed to check your timing while in Drive? Especially in a stick shift?

[carnuck]

You will note the shifter on a stick has no drive position.