TBI

[Alcoatari]

When I installed it on my Green wagon I did find that the Howell kit is flawed. The included fuel pump is very noisy and unreliable when installed by Howell instructions. If you run out of gas you need to loosen the input clamp and get the air out, or you won't be able to start and the pump will burn up and die. Been there, done that. Howell wants $140 for another one. They give you flex line to get from the pump up to the TBI, which a stone punctured and I got a nasty fuel leak one day from it. If you buy a stock Chevy unit for like $30 off rock auto it goes right into the AMC fuel tank where it belongs. It will autoprime, it will stay cool and last a long time, and it will be totally quiet.

Also they rely on the TBI pressure valve to knock down the fuel pressure. It returns through the original AMC vent line. Since the vent line is a small diameter and prone to rusty out from moist vapor, that can be a big problem. My Eagle hissed badly and ran terribly until I replaced the vent line. Ideally you should have the fuel pump in the tank then a pressure control outside it. The pressure should get to the TBI closer to the right value so that you're not pushing a huge volume of gas through the tiny vent line.

Hello,

I have heard of some similar issues and your posted solution intrigues me. I am putting the Howell TBI kit on an 81 SX4 and I am worried about some of these issues.

The GM stock pump that fits in the tank... is this from any GM 4.3L application of the relevant era? Does this unit have a float for level indication and is it compatible with the AMC instrument cluster? I understand rewiring is necessary, but I already have level indicator issues and it would be great to kill two birds with one pump.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[captspillane]

The GM stock pump that fits in the tank... is this from any GM 4.3L application of the relevant era? Does this unit have a float for level indication and is it compatible with the AMC instrument cluster? I understand rewiring is necessary, but I already have level indicator issues and it would be great to kill two birds with one pump.

No, the float that sends the signal to the fuel gauge is separate from the pickup tube. The fuel pump basically replaces the bottom of the pickup tube on the AMC unit.

[Alcoatari]

No, the float that sends the signal to the fuel gauge is separate from the pickup tube. The fuel pump basically replaces the bottom of the pickup tube on the AMC unit.

Thank you for the reply.

That makes sense. Going to check out Rockauto now, which vehicle(s) was this in tank unit originally from?

Thanks again

[captspillane]

I was using a 2001 Oldsmobile Bravada as a search term simply because we own one. You can get a new AMC fuel sending unit pretty cheap still too, so you could have an entire replacement unit prepared before you pull the old one. That would be pretty useful too, since you could compare the length of the new fuel pickup against the old to make sure you matched it properly.

[Alcoatari]

D*mn:... that be some solid backyard fab.

I will follow this guideline, thanks for the input. Never really came to terms with the whole in-line exposed right next to my catalytic converter fuel pump idea via howell.

I had considered buying a sealed fuel cell, most of which come with a GM pump unit, but this simplifies things greatly.

[Alcoatari]

I was using a 2001 Oldsmobile Bravada as a search term simply because we own one. You can get a new AMC fuel sending unit pretty cheap still too, so you could have an entire replacement unit prepared before you pull the old one. That would be pretty useful too, since you could compare the length of the new fuel pickup against the old to make sure you matched it properly.

Okay, I bought the parts. Any tips on insulating the wiring or anchoring the unit? Hoping It doesn't flop around in there too much... I imagine I can sneak the fuel pump wiring through the same hole the sending unit wiring goes through, yeah? Or make a hole and epoxy?

Anyway, thanks again. I'm sure it will be pretty self explanatory when the parts arrive, but I like to learn from others' experiences when given the chance.

[Monkeyjoe]

I just replaced the fuel pump on my Chevy truck last year,  The connectors inside the tank are just spade type connectors, nothing special or high tech.  they have the rubber boots around them.  My new pump came with a new plug setup that I had to splice into the old wiring, I soldered together and used heat shrink around the joints.   

[Alcoatari]

I just replaced the fuel pump on my Chevy truck last year,  The connectors inside the tank are just spade type connectors, nothing special or high tech.  they have the rubber boots around them.  My new pump came with a new plug setup that I had to splice into the old wiring, I soldered together and used heat shrink around the joints.

Okay. Sounds good. I'm not much of a hand at soldering, but I'll manage.

Thanks Monkeyjoe, and Captspillane.

[captspillane]

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?278348-GM-TBI-fuel-pump-instal-into-a-1984-CJ7-tank

I think that's a guy putting a Chevy 350 swap in his CJ7. He used the fuel pump I would use for a TBI AMC 360. The 4.3L is a better match for the I6. Same concept.

[Alcoatari]

Sweet... very comprehensive.

[Alcoatari]

I just replaced the fuel pump on my Chevy truck last year,  The connectors inside the tank are just spade type connectors, nothing special or high tech.  they have the rubber boots around them.  My new pump came with a new plug setup that I had to splice into the old wiring, I soldered together and used heat shrink around the joints.

I just had to do this same deal with a 2000 Silverado 1500. Did your pump come with the GM pressure sensor on it? I bought a cheap-o pump and mine did not. It had a place for it, but I had to drill a 3/8" hole and fit a new sensor from the parts store. This on top of having to rewire the old style square harness to the flat one that came with the pump, just as you mentioned.

I really have to get around to improving my soldering skills. I just spliced and taped and taped and taped.

I didn't happen to look at the internal connectors on the GM unit, but what you're saying makes sense. For this project I will force myself to solder everything I can.

The cave man inside me just keeps telling me to keep the magic fire out of the gas tank.

[Monkeyjoe]

My truck is a 1994 Chevy, so it does not have the pressure sensor on the pump. 

Splice and tape will almost always corrod and cause problems later. 

Solder is the best in my opinion.  Use Flux and an extra set of hands if you dont have an aligtor clip.  I made my own "3rd hand" by nailing  2 aligator clips to a board about 2 inches apart.  I just line everything up and clamp down with the clips.  that leave both of my hand free to manage the iron and the solder.

[BenM]

My truck is a 1994 Chevy, so it does not have the pressure sensor on the pump. 

Splice and tape will almost always corrod and cause problems later. 

Solder is the best in my opinion.  Use Flux and an extra set of hands if you dont have an aligtor clip.  I made my own "3rd hand" by nailing  2 aligator clips to a board about 2 inches apart.  I just line everything up and clamp down with the clips.  that leave both of my hand free to manage the iron and the solder.

Where I don't solder, I use "Weatherpack" connectors. You need the special crimp tool for them, but I've been very successful with them. There are flat and round styles and they were used many places in AMC cars and Jeeps, several of the emissions connectors on the Eagle are the round style. Cherokees tended to use the flat style.

Don't forget to use shrink tube or self fusing silicone tape over the connections to protect them. Electrical tape just comes apart after a while.

There are several places that supply TBI kits for AMCs now. The lowest I've seen is around $850.

I don't know why some venders eliminated the connection to the distributor. I thought that HEI and Duraspark modules were overall electrically interchangeable.

[carnuck]

My plan is a complete Cherokee tank that already has a sender and pump in it with a "new" filler welded onto the side where the Eagle filler is (I cut that section off a bottom rotted tank). Actually, it'll be pop riveted in place with gas proof sealer.

[Alcoatari]

There are several places that supply TBI kits for AMCs now. The lowest I've seen is around $850.

Unfortunately, I bought the Howell kit almost five years ago, and didn't really find much else at the time. So that's what I've got, and I have to make the best of it. Now that all of my other exhaust and drive train mods are finished, this is my last mod before I can finally smog.