TBI

[rmick]

Anybody else try and do a TBI install on there Eagle. I know Jeep guys have. Here is a good right up on installing TBI.  Might do this this summer http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48769

[vangremlin]

I've been thinking about it also, maybe on my next Eagle

Here is another good write-up. 

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/junkyard-tbi-write-up-1066016/

Someone also posted a link to eBay for the wiring harness you would need, rather than having to mess with pulling and splicing the old one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271305269115?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[rmick]

Was curious if there is enough of an advantage to doing this for a daily driver to make it worth while. Better fuel economy and power range? over a good running carb.  The Jeep guys usually do this for the advantage of extreme angles and never running out of fuel in a carb  Would be good for trips with large altitude changes to maintain the proper fuel air ratio.

[vangremlin]

Would be good for trips with large altitude changes to maintain the proper fuel air ratio.

That's why I'd be particularly interested in it.  I'd be much more "inclined" to take mine up in the mountains with fuel injection.  Plus, because emission inspections are now required for newly re-licensed classic cars, the opportunities for upgrading the system with a different carb or removing the old emissions equipment are limited.  If you switch to fuel injection, that is considered an upgrade and you can remove all the old emissions stuff.  At least that's the way it works in CO. 

[captspillane]

It pains me to see someone buy a Motorcraft kit for $400 and then report 11 mpg in their Eagle and terrible idle issues. For about $600 I'll have that same Eagle running perfectly, starting immediately, and averaging 25 mpg with TBI. An automatic Eagle is capable of 28 mpg on the highway and should never get less than 22 mpg, even driven aggressively in traffic.

I'm doing the majority of my Eagles with TBI. I have already installed and removed the Howell system from my green 1980 Sport wagon. It was TBI for about a year and I removed it at the end of this summer to CNC copy the adaptor before this next summer. The positive difference is huge and it is very simple and cheap. The only reason to go MPI is if you are pushing for power over economy or if you already have a whole donor XJ to work with. Economical daily drivers are better off TBI than MPI usually.

My CJ8 was owned by the JP magazine guys and in 2004 they purchased two new kits, one a Howell MPI kit based on the 1992 High Output 4.0 system and the other the Howell TBI system based on a GM TBI. The Howell kit cost $3200 and the Howell kit cost $1300. They put both systems on my Scrambler and ran them 100 miles to record the difference. It was a huge benefit over a carb but there was nearly no difference in performance between the two. When I bought my CJ8 it still had the MPI installed and the Howell kit was still boxed up neatly and basically brand new.

When I installed it on my Green wagon I did find that the Howell kit is flawed. The included fuel pump is very noisy and unreliable when installed by Howell instructions. If you run out of gas you need to loosen the input clamp and get the air out, or you won't be able to start and the pump will burn up and die. Been there, done that. Howell wants $140 for another one. They give you flex line to get from the pump up to the TBI, which a stone punctured and I got a nasty fuel leak one day from it. If you buy a stock Chevy unit for like $30 off rock auto it goes right into the AMC fuel tank where it belongs. It will autoprime, it will stay cool and last a long time, and it will be totally quiet.

Also they rely on the TBI pressure valve to knock down the fuel pressure. It returns through the original AMC vent line. Since the vent line is a small diameter and prone to rusty out from moist vapor, that can be a big problem. My Eagle hissed badly and ran terribly until I replaced the vent line. Ideally you should have the fuel pump in the tank then a pressure control outside it. The pressure should get to the TBI closer to the right value so that you're not pushing a huge volume of gas through the tiny vent line.

I also found that the Howell spacer is prone to air leaks because they made their bolts recessed with huge holes that provide a hole from outside inside. The instructions simply state you're supposed to RTV the crap out of it. I got another company's adaptor that is no longer sold but has precise flush mounted flat heads that easily seal with a very small amount of RTV on the gasket. I'm making my own adaptor using the proper hole design and the nicer shape of the Howell one and I intend to sell them here on this site.

The Howell kit also eliminates the spark control and has a special program on it to make it run properly without that. I'm going to follow the Binder Planet plans and simply use a GM factory program and incorporate my Skip White HEI distributor into the spark control. I happen to also own a Scout and I bought a full TBi system for it from another guy on the Binder planet. In a couple years I'll be able to post pictures and details about an IH 345, AMC 304, AMC 360, 3.0L Iron Duke, and a couple AMC I6s all happily running with TBI. It's a good way to go.

[IowaEagle]

Thumbs up added for your great, tested, information.

[rollguy]

Thumbs up added for your great, tested, information.

Although I don't usually like reading long posts, you always have the most interesting and informative posts on this site Capt'.  I find that it is information overload every time I see a post from you, but after reading, I am thankful I took the time to read.  Thumbs up added.

[Prafeston]

Agreed, it can definitely be too much at times!

Sure wish I had all that knowledge in my head though!

[IowaEagle]

I could probably spend a week just going thru his posts and getting them into the Eaglepedia.  On my list, which keeps getting longer.

[captspillane]

My long posts are rarely read by anyone but they are practice runs for the finished product. Thanks for showing some appreciation for them. I'm not much for chitchat or for people too lazy to google stuff on their own. I'll either ignore questions or write a long answer, not much in between.

I registered a website recently: www.captain223.com. I barely put anything there just to have something there. When the website gets a little further developed I'll eventually just post links to articles, not attempt to write a new article length post each time. Long term I will be collecting all these long posts, rewriting them, and organizing them as a go to guide on different subjects.

 For now I've been reposting the important ones in my project thread "Perkiomen Project Pics" to make them easier to find later.

[IowaEagle]

Thanks for doing this Capt.  We cannot have this valuable information archived in too many places, case in point, had not others saved stuff from the Nest I don't know where we would be today.

[TLC87Eagle]

Great info. Every time I thumb through a 4WD hardware catalog, I always stop and ponder about getting one of these setups...

http://www.4wd.com/?t_pn=FST30295-KIT

But I am always turned away by the price. Plus the only reason I would get it would be for performance increase and maybe smoother idle and faster start-up.
I already get about 26mph driving easy on the highway, so I doubt I could improve on that much.

[captspillane]

That kit is $1600 and you get a TBI that has never been on any production car. That's foolish. My kits use all factory parts from the tried and true GM systems used for about a decade of GM car production. The solid metal adaptor is really the only thing you can't easily replace or find online technical support for. The Howell system does the same thing for $1200 but didn't do it too well. For me to do one of my cars with totally brand new stuff I'll spend about $600. Doing it with junkyard parts is closer to $200 but very labor intensive and not worth the hassle of selling to others. I figure on selling kits to others for about $700 once I've gotten it down to a science on my own cars.

I'd be willing to do a kit for someone this very week but it would be about the cost of the Howell kit. I'd need more profit built in to justify working on someone else's car while mine sits stagnant in a building I pay rent of $600 per month.

[vangremlin]

Someone is making the adaptor and selling it on eBay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-AMC-258-4-2-DIY-GM-4-3-TBI-Fuel-Injection-adapter-system-/350916904548?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b4470664

[rmick]

With all the great info I will start hitting the local salvage yards and find the stuff I need to do this. Shouldn't be any harder then the 4.0 swap I did in my 72 gremmy. You can also use the Howell instilation info as well http://www.howellefi.com/pdfs/jeep_kit.pdf Will try and make my own adapter plate and modify the harness from the donor vehicle