Thinking of doing a 4cyl swap.

[DaemonForce]

Since I seem to have so much transmission trouble with a 6cyl when making very long distance trips I'm thinking of doing a swap to a 4cyl but I'm taking things a bit further.

The Iron Duke is too rare for me but I notice a LOT of people seem to be somehow getting old DJ-5 delivery trucks and making them into powerhouse vehicles for street racing and simple parts hauling. They do a V8 swap and leave the 121 to sit and rot or sell it for about $100-300. Has anyone ever put the late 70s AMC 121 in an Eagle? What all would I have to change to make this work?

[rollguy]

The Iron Duke is too rare for me but I notice a LOT of people seem to be somehow getting old DJ-5 delivery trucks and making them into powerhouse vehicles for street racing and simple parts hauling. They do a V8 swap and leave the 121 to sit and rot or sell it for about $100-300.

That is because those engines have a LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTT of miles on them.   If you got one as a core, you could rebuild it and it would last a good long time.  If you just install a used one in your Eagle, it might be at the end of it's serviceable life.

[rollguy]

Also, you would need a 4X4 transmission that will bolt up to the 4 cyl engine.   Your 998 will not bolt up, as the 4 cyl is either the Chevy, or the later GM Metric bolt pattern  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_bellhousing_patterns.

[DaemonForce]

I don't have a 998 yet. Will a T-5 or T-176 bolt up?

[captspillane]

I suggest a Mercruiser 3.0 boat engine. Its rated at 140 hp and they are extremely common. Just about three quarters of the boats 16 to 19 foot long had them. They have marine grade freeze plugs and some other upgrades.

The Mercruiser 3.0 started life as a 2.5 in 1977. At some point they started producing their own engines and used the same block but overbored it and stroked it. Its still in production today. The 1977 Chevy Monza engine already installed in my Kammback is the exact same block.

The 1979 Iron Duke was a very slight change, the head went from non-cross flow to cross flow and the distributor was moved forward to make room. Its a different casting but shared the same bolt patterns for the mounting points and the Chevy bellhousing pattern. That's the Iron Duke that AMC bought the tooling for from GM. The next year all the GM Iron Dukes had a different casting with different mounting and bellhousing patterns.

If you get a 80 HP Iron Duke Eagle you simply pull that engine and drop in the Mercruiser. All the hardware is the same. Its a bolt on 140 HP upgrade. Your Eagle will already have the 3.54 axles to perfectly match the T5.

[carnuck]

It's too bad the T18A I have for sale has the long input or I'd suggest it for the Eagle. Did you see there is an '80 Cherokee full size 2dr and a '90 Grand Wagoneer for $500 each on CL? Both will be 727 (if the Cherokee is a 6 cyl, it could be the 999)

[BenM]

The 121 VW sourced engine uses a specific transmission set up for the bell housing. The manual trans was a Borg-Warner HR1, so it's not an obscure make but you would have to ask a local transmission guy if they could be converted to 4wd easily during rebuild. It was used with a 904 as well, with the VW group pattern; the 904 would be an easy conversion during a rebuild.

I would suspect that there's a lot of support for it in the aftermarket, my brother-in-law is a VW guy and there are just an incredible number of aftermarket parts for all years of VW.

You could also go with the AMC-150 from a late Jeep. TBI and MPI engines produced as much power and close to the torque of our 258s and it's another engine that's easy to come buy as a lot of guys buy old Wranglers for rock crawling and pull out the 150 for a V8.

The 121 would by far be the smoothest running four cylinder, and it's got a high redline. I'd love to hear someone's experience with one as they sound like they'd be much better then the 151 but were unpopular.

[carnuck]

I have been told by several VW guys that the Audi (It's not really a VW motor) 2.0L RWD engine used in these and postal Jeeps has a different bell pattern than the FWD VW motors. I was looking into it to do a VW diesel conversion on my Comanche using the trans from a 2.0L '79 (only year) Postal Jeep DJ5-G I had.

[captspillane]

Its a good thought and I went to check. The wikipedia article comes straight out and says that its a different pattern than a VW Rabbit. It's apparently a very common question.

I do own a VW Rabbit. It's the slowest most humble vehicle I've ever encountered. My Turbodiesel VW Quantum is considerably better, but still slower than a little girl on a bicycle.

An 80's VW diesel in an Eagle would be downright shameful. You'd be lucky to reach 35 mph. There is some hope for a newer VW since the current generation is very quiet and much more powerful.

[DaemonForce]

I am never going to find the 151. It's just not going to happen. Though the 121 may be a direct swap from the sound of everything. I live in a weird area where all the common stuff to you guys is something I want but it never shows up here. Instead, all the super weird rare junk grabs my attention first and it's kind of what was mentioned:
Buy junk Wrangler
Pull 4cyl
Put in 8cyl
Profit

That's the common idea, right? It's NOT happening to the old Wranglers like I expect. It's happening to these old DJ-5s that probably have over 2 million miles on them or so. Some oddball gets ahold of a sweet decomissioned delivery truck, strips whatever paint is left, pulls the engine(and MAYBE the transmission), puts in a big I6 or V8 block and it becomes a high speed ratrod. After a few months the transmission or starter clunks out. They can't figure out why this happened and they give up looking for parts. The drivetrain gets sold for cheap scrap. This is an incredibly easy fix. I can do it to the late Gremlins, I can do the same to a Hornet or Eagle.

I checked out some old VW vehicles at an auction yesterday and was disgusted by how much is wrong with them. Busted hood latch, busted inner door latch, missing electronics, floorboard leaks...The only thing I liked was the sideways engine and the 5SPD auto transmission. Either is likely to fail at this point so I left them alone. At least I can work on an AMC when it finally blows up and the longer I continue living with a "professional mechanic" of 60+ years, the far greater chance that has of happening very soon. :/

[carnuck]

There's a Comanche shortbox here I was looking at for parts (dollars are too short to get it and my other project can wait) with fuel injected AMC 4 cyl and 5 speed for $700. I need a box and cab rear 1/2 to extend the cab of the longbed standard cab I plan to build up (long box that will become a longcab with a shortbox, using XJ 2 drs on it)

[eaglefreek]

Not trying to be a jerk, but why would you want to go backwards because your trans issue? If you have the 998 properly rebuilt, with a proper torque converter that has a reinforced snout, you won't have any tranny problems for quite some time. The stock 258 is quite anemic, I couldn't imagine an old 4 cyl. in there. If you really wanted to go with a 4 cyl., how about a Ford 2.3l Turbo engine. I don't think it would take much to mate the AMC T5 to the Ford T5 bellhousing. Also, there a few modern 4cyl. that have quite a bit of horsepower. This company has  quite a few options for adapter plates http://quad4rods.com/. Just food for thought.

[Psomion]

I gotta agree with Eaglefreak if the only reason you are doing this is because of the tranny. The 998 is a beefy 904 and there are lots of parts for these. If you look up the TF727 rebuild book (HP Books) they talk extensively about the 904 being built for drag racing. The transmission is of good design. Nothing against a 4cyl swap, but it seems like more work (and money) than fixing the transmission to me.

[HappyPappy]

I suggest a Mercruiser 3.0 boat engine. Its rated at 140 hp and they are extremely common. Just about three quarters of the boats 16 to 19 foot long had them. They have marine grade freeze plugs and some other upgrades.

The Mercruiser 3.0 started life as a 2.5 in 1977. At some point they started producing their own engines and used the same block but overbored it and stroked it. Its still in production today. The 1977 Chevy Monza engine already installed in my Kammback is the exact same block.

The 1979 Iron Duke was a very slight change, the head went from non-cross flow to cross flow and the distributor was moved forward to make room. Its a different casting but shared the same bolt patterns for the mounting points and the Chevy bellhousing pattern. That's the Iron Duke that AMC bought the tooling for from GM. The next year all the GM Iron Dukes had a different casting with different mounting and bellhousing patterns.

If you get a 80 HP Iron Duke Eagle you simply pull that engine and drop in the Mercruiser. All the hardware is the same. Its a bolt on 140 HP upgrade. Your Eagle will already have the 3.54 axles to perfectly match the T5.

[/quote
  My neighbor has a couple of the Mercuiser engines he may willing to part with on has a cracked block, the other one may be seized up, he never opened it up