Perkiomen Project Pics

[captspillane]

Here is the low-down on AMC coil springs. Each number gets progressively stiffer. These are all the options available from Moog, Raysbestos, and ACDelco for 1970-88 AMC Eagles, Gremlins, Javelins, Concords, and Spirits.

All these coil springs have an inside diameter of 5.02" and a load height of 9.5."

Most of them have a coil bar diameter of 0.69." None of them have a larger diameter. Some Light duty applications have smaller diameters. The smallest bar diameter available is 0.656."

The "Free Height" varies from 14.69" to 16.59." Changing the free height is the primary way that AMC accounted for small differences in weight according to the options and size of the vehicle. No coil springs are listed as available for Eagles because the factory Eagle springs varied slightly in free height from right to left to account for the offset engine. In practice the difference is negligible and I have given up on old plans to mix different springs from this list to make my own Eagle mismatched pairs..

I included the load rating for the Moog part numbers in parenthesis. I don't have that number for the Raysbestos and AC Delco part numbers. Moog only has four sizes total with the necessary 5.02" and 9.5" dimensions. [3140 at "1490" load rate, 3112 at "1591," 3156 at "1690," and stiffest 3118 at "1789" load rate]. Searching through Rockauto, I found that they only show three, sometimes only two, of the four sizes anywhere. I found the other size directly from Moog's master list.

Incidentally Rockauto has many flaws in their listings. The same car and options come up with different choices depending on what year you try. The biggest one is that they show springs for a '73 401 Javelin that are smaller than a '73 360 Javelin and not even listed as an option for '72 Javelins, even though we know better. There is a huge difference in weight from a 401 to a 360 and the listings are obviously swapped. No where does Rockauto identify Moog 3118 even though that is the appropriate size for a 401 Javelin. I don't know if that part number or an equivalent is even in production. The aftermarket takes some liberties compared to what AMC actually made a few decades ago.

Captain Spillane's Comprehensive List of Available AMC Coil Spring Sizes
Stiffness increases as the Number increases

1) Bar Diameter 0.656" and 14.81" Free Height:
Raysbestos 5851090 and AC Delco 45H0090
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L stickshift w/AC
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L Auto w/o AC

2) 0.656" and 14.94"
Raysbestos 5851089 and Moog 3140 and AC Delco 45H0089
(Moog 3140 has a Load rate of 1490)
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L Automatic w/AC
E.G. AMC Concord with 4.2L stickshift w/AC
E.G. AMC Concord with 4.2L Automatic w/o AC

3) 0.687" and 14.38"
Moog 3112
(Moog 3112 has a Load rate of 1591)
E.G. AMC Concord 4.2L Automatic w/o AC
E.G. AMC Spirit w/304 V8 stickshift w/o AC

4) 0.690" and 14.69"
Raysbestos 5851077 and AC Delco 45H0077
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/o AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/304 V8 w/manual trans w/o AC
E.G. AMC Javelin 4.2L Automatic w/AC

5) 0.687" and 14.92"
Moog 3156
(Moog 3156 has a Load rate of 1690)
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/304 V8 w/manual trans w/AC

6) 0.690" and 15.02"
Raysbestos 5851161 and AC Delco 45H0161
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/360 V8 w/auto trans w/o AC

7) 0.690" and 15.38
Moog 3118
(Moog 3118 has a Load rate of 1789)
E.G. AMC Javelin w/360 V8 w/auto trans w/AC

8.) 0.690" and 16.59"
AC Delco 45H0082
E.G. AMC Javelin w/401 w/auto trans w/AC

[captspillane]

That post previous to this one was a copy of a pretty old post of mine that I'm currently using to put together a rockauto order right now. I find myself going through my own postings pretty often and this project thread has become for me a place to get the useful ones all together in one spot. Current pricing as of October 2014 is:

2) Moog 3140 (1490 lb load, 0.65 bar, 14.94 in height, 276 lbs/in spring rate): $66.79 (Closest to factory Eagle coils)
3) Moog 3112 (1591 lb load, 0.68 bar, 14.38 in height, 307 lbs/in spring rate): $70.12
5) Moog 3156 (1690 lb load, 0.68 bar, 14.92 in height, 311 lbs/in spring rate): $63.89 (The ones I usually use)
7) Moog 3118 (1789 lb load): Unavailable

4) Raysbestos 5851077 (1591 lb load, 0.69 bar, 14.69 in height, 307 lbs/in spring rate): $77.79
AC Delco 45H0077 (0.69 bar, 14.69 in height): $84.89

6) Raysbestos 5851161 (1690 lb load, 0.69 bar, 15.02 in height, 311 lbs/in spring rate): $70.79
AC Delco 45H0161  (0.69 bar, 15.02 in height): $81.79

8.) AC Delco 45H0082 (0.69 bar, 16.59 in height): $76.79

[captspillane]

Random MOOG Coil Spring Specs:
I put this list together tonight for a couple different Eagle related reasons. First I'm curious about making a better version of front shock coil-overs to assist tired old original springs without needing to remove the old ones (thus the 800 pound load options mixed in, which is about a third of the ideal load value). Second I'd like to make my own spring perches for use with a spacer block for an easy "body lift" that would require a spring about 17 inches free height versus the stock 15 inch but have about the same load rate. Third I'd like to think about subframe repair options that could require the one inch smaller diameter spring that I found quite a few factory options available for. I figure this list took about an hour to compile and someone else may have use for the same information.

I bolded the one I'll probably buy soon to experiment with. The load rate is the most important number, and I figure the factory Eagle at around 270 lbs/in is a little too soft for me and the 311 lbs/in was just about perfectly stiff in my past 4.2L rebuilds. That made it easy to select the one with 17 inch free height and 303 lb/in. It comes to a price much cheaper per pair too. I'm also very curious about just how stiff it would be to try the 460 lbs/in option in a 4.2L Eagle, which even happens to be cheaper yet. It may also be perfectly stiff paired with the extra weight of the 401 V8. I prefer stiff suspensions in cars like my '92 XJ or former 2006 TJ Rubicon but obviously not stupid stiff like my Scout currently is.

These advertised load numbers are only useful for comparison and the actual load rate will vary with the resting weight of the vehicle. To get the same intended ride characteristics and true observed load rate the published load rate chosen from this list has to be adjusted along with engine and AC choices. I like that this smaller coil diameter size has much more options available to choose from and a half inch change in radius is reasonable to still look like the factory coil options.

The first number in total load rating for the spring depends on the difference between load height and free height, which I didn't record. The load height for AMC coils is intended to be 9.5" regardless of the free height. The other spring I selected, Moog 5276, had an intended load height of 10.5", which is consistant with the goal of lowering the crossmember and upper control arm pivot point by an inch with a spacer block and new subframe mounting holes without changing the height of the top of the shock tower.

I don't mind making significant changes as long as the geometry stays the same as AMC originally engineered. I happen to be boxing in the old subframe with a stronger one with the same profile but an inch lower in depth. The factory strut rod bracket, crossmember, control arms, ball joints, and all the complex stuff will be in the same place relative to each other as they have always been. I've had too many shock towers rust through where they connect to the subframe so I'm incorporating new bullet proof mounting holes for the upper control arm. The only reason a new spring perch may be necessary is because of the smaller 4.09 ID coil spring and I may be just making a single CNC cut spacer block that bolts to the old shock attachment holes and adapts the old spring perch to the new coil size as well as providing new holes higher up for the original front shocks to bolt to. Long term I'd like to have the spacer block be the fast, dirty, and cheap option with a roller bearing pivot perch as another option.

Part of the motivation to provide one inch of lift is to put the front axle one inch lower under the engine. This gives me room to use the heavy duty front axle from a 2002 Chevy 1500. I already have one and it measures to about a half inch less in total width than the original Eagle axle. That is perfect to give me room for a simple bolt pattern reducer at the CV joint flanges. I'm also curious about giving clearance for the larger easier to find Jeep oil pans because I'm running low on Eagle oil pans that haven't rusted through. I'm hoping I can lift an inch at the crossmember and also lower an inch at the same time thanks to the angle of the control arms to give the same factory bumper height with just an inch of ground clearance lost. I don't actually like lifting Eagles but it may be a necessary evil that I will end up doing often in the course of rust repair. I also see another possibility of cleanly eliminating the 1" front wheel spacers I use with the deep factory alloy rims by pushing both control arms out an inch during this subframe modification.

It happens to be the coil spring from a '70 to '85 Chevy Camaro. The stiffer spring I'll probably use with my 401 V8 SX4 is from a '71 Cadillac Deville with a 7.7L V8. What is pretty cool is I then looked up those cars identified by the constant rate options I went through in this list and found additional variable rate spring options. That also shows some promise to make my car have exactly the ride quality I want in the huge range of uses I want to drive it for.

On a related note I think its amusing that someone recently bought tired old four cylinder springs to "lower" their six cylinder Eagle. When you lower a vehicle you need to increase spring rate to decrease how much travel your suspension moves as you hit bumps. It would make more sense to buy a much stiffer spring with a higher load rate then cut down the free height if you want to lower your car. Being stiff is better than being floppy and smacking the bump stop in a jolt at every pothole.

AMC COIL SPRINGS
Moog 3140: 1490 lb load rate, 0.65 bar, 14.94 in height, 276 lbs/in, 5.02 in ID: $66.79
Moog 3112: 1591 lb load rate, 0.68 bar, 14.38 in height, 307 lbs/in 5.02 in ID: $70.12
Moog 3156: 1690 lb load rate, 0.68 bar, 14.92 in height, 311 lbs/in, 5.02 in ID: $63.89

SORTED BY COIL DIAMETER FIRST THEN PRICE PER PAIR SECOND
Moog 2278: 868 lbs, 0.60 bar, 11.00 in height, 435 lbs/in, 3.42 in ID: $76.79

Moog 5230: 1884 lbs, 0.60 bar, 18.25 in height, 251 lbs/in, 3.62 in ID: $60.79
Moog 5244: 2124 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.75 in height, 315 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $66.99
Moog 5370: 2022 lbs, 0.64 bar, 15.94 in height, 357 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $68.79
Moog 5256: 2174 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.91 in height, 315 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $76.99
Moog 5234: 2025 lbs, 0.62 bar, 17.81 in height, 297 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $78.79
Moog 5272: 2279 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.99 in height, 327 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $78.79
Moog 5374: 1957 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.17 in height, 317 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $79.79

Moog 5032: 3125 lbs, 0.75 bar, 16.44 in height, 460 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $45.79
Moog 5276: 1981 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.05 in height, 303 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $49.79
Moog 5006: 2480 lbs, 0.68 bar, 16.88 in height, 355 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5030: 2900 lbs, 0.71 bar, 17.05 in height, 419 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5044: 2360 lbs, 0.68 bar, 18.06 in height, 334 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5332: 2308 lbs, 0.65 bar, 18.25 in height, 298 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $63.79
Moog 3226: 834 lbs, 0.51 bar, 17.25 in height, 134 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $64.79
Moog 5330: 2300 lbs, 0.67 bar, 18.52 in height, 306 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $65.79
Moog 3224: 719 lbs, 0.51 bar, 16.39 in height, 134 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $68.79
Moog 5378: 2062 lbs, 0.67 bar, 18.51 in height, 294 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $69.79
Moog 5376: 1886 lbs, 0.67 bar, 17.92 in height, 319 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $76.89
Moog 5278: 2083 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.50 in height, 298 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $77.79
Moog 5270: 2550 lbs, 0.70 bar, 17.94 in height, 362 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $80.79
Moog 5268: 2450 lbs, 0.70 bar, 17.62 in height, 370 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $82.99
Moog 5282: 2810 lbs, 0.71 bar, 17.50 in height, 411 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $106.99

Moog 2203: 515 lbs, 0.47 bar, 15.42 in height, 95 lbs/in, 4.25 in ID: $60.79

[carnuck]

Just to add to your collection: (Javelin, etc. Only listing)
Part Number: NCP 2772078
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 6.8
Coil Spring Free Height : 14.69"
Coil Spring I.D. : 5.02"
Coil Spring Load Height : 9.5"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Pigtail End
Design Load : 1591
Spring Rate : 307
Wire Diameter : .69"

'77 Matador:

Part Number: NCP 2772098
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 7.12
Coil Spring Free Height : 16.59"
Coil Spring I.D. : 5.02"
Coil Spring Load Height : 9"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Pigtail End
Design Load : 2013
Spring Rate : 272
Wire Diameter : .69"

Pacer springs (only AMC they are listed for but LOTS pf GMs)

Part Number: NCP 2773108
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 8.95
Coil Spring Free Height : 15.38"
Coil Spring I.D. : 4.09"
Coil Spring Load Height : 11"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Square End
Design Load : 1520
Spring Rate : 347
Wire Diameter : .672"

[captspillane]

This is basically the same exact thing I was planning to do with all those new coil springs I posted. It is awesome to see someone else thinking the same thing and even doing further research than I have time to do. Thanks!

Here is something else I found the other day

It's a hybrid coil over set up that still uses the factory upper spring mount. It would give you a couple inches of adjustable ride height and roller perch (kinda). I've been considering going this route on my mustang. The guy made a list of part numbers, and I looked them up on summit racing. It would cost about $560 to get the parts (free shipping!). The cool part, is that since your not making any changes to the factory components, i could have them installed in a couple hours and could easily have it back to stock just as quickly.

[rootsyliving]

You have that list of part numbers. Looking to better the ride on my eagle.  You say this will all work without altering the other stock components.  Mostly street driving with occasional sand off roading

[captspillane]

I often copy a second copy of my own posts and other ones that I want to find quickly into this thread. If you're asking me for first hand experience please notice that it is a quote with the person who originally posted it given credit at the top.

I have been gone for quite a long time for a number of rather good reasons. I'm still on this side of the ground and usually on this side of the bars.

[captspillane]

This is great information well worth saving.

They are for '62 -'67 Chevy II/Nova, Pontiac Acadian. '68 Nova is 1.5" inch shorter with different ends

NS 5756 specifications
Lower Mount : SP
Shock Compressed Length : 10"
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Extended Length : 15.5"
Shock Travel Length : 5.5"
Upper Mount : S4
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P1137 & P423

RR 94104 (listed for the Eagle at NAPA)
 Attributes:
Lower Mount : Special Mount
Shock Compressed Length : 8.5"
Shock Extended Length : 12.875"
Shock Travel Length : 4.375"
Upper Mount : Stem 3/8" x 16
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P423 & P840

If you already have good shocks but need an inch or so length, there is shock extenders. I needed 3" longer for my Comanche so I made my own with water pipe that I tapped the inside to fit the shock and exhaust stud I was using as an extension.

I can post a pic (on my Comanche) I also had to use chain clamps the pipe to keep the studs in because they were turned undersize.

If the Chevy II ones are too long and the listed shock is too short, then the other option is

NS 5809 or RR 94061
Lower Mount : SP
Shock Compressed Length : 9"
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Extended Length : 13.625"
Shock Travel Length : 4.625"
Upper Mount : S4
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P1136 & P423

[captspillane]

Here are some photos I promised a long time ago. These are taken from my June 2014 meet. The grey wagon is a guy in high school who works at his father's speed shop. They have a very nice AMC Javelin with mustang T5 conversion and an award winning hill-climb AMC Gremlin. He built a turbo system for his wagon. He had just finished it that week and was already planning a number of improvements.

[captspillane]

My Kammback is back in the shop this week. It is a budget build. I have less than $1,500 into this car including a really long list of parts. I put a Hornet front end on it from a '77 I've had around. I've modified station wagon rear bumper flares for it. I had the local shop rebuild the rear axle for $400. I bought it for $500 and drove it home after about four hours of rebuilding the front in a parking lot. I replaced the SR4 four speed with a T5. I spent a great deal of time fixing the damage from the front axle falling off on the previous owner. I bought new tires for it. I swapped the transmission in 2012. I painted it in 2013. I finally put the new tires on it in October of 2014. I'll finally be finishing the trim this month.

All of these pictures are over a year old.

[captspillane]

Some work coming together currently:

[eaglefreek]

Nice.

[Prafeston]

I missed the pics of the Kammback all painted! Very cool! I like the look of the Hornet front end. Looks a little off on the match up by the door though.

[captspillane]

Looks a little off on the match up by the door though.

That's an understatement. This one had a crash against the door in its past and the passenger side fitment is affected. I might end up having to swap doors out if I can't get it closer. The hood is also affected and it used to stick up considerably on the passenger side. Looking at the last picture in primer grey when I first got it you might be able to spot how the back passenger side corner of the hood sticks up about a half inch above the fender. I had to work with the hinge for awhile to bet it back to an okay position.

You might also be looking at the way the Hornet fender doesn't line up with the rocker. That is because the Hornet opening isn't cut out yet in those pictures. I had to cut back to make the fender line up with the rocker then cleaned up the edge and hid the work behind Eagle fender flares. None of the trim is painted and most of it is still missing. I just put it in the garage to finally finish the trim and fender placement.

[captspillane]

Here are two videos I just uploaded from the first Perkiomen Solstice Meet in June of 2013. My daughter was only three weeks old then. 

The idea behind the annual Solstice Meets is to make videos and conduct activities that teach and encourage the restoration of these cars. As the meets grow in scope and attendence I will be doing things like rebuilding transmissions and describing mechanical parts in detail one at a time. All of the knowledge and resources created during these meets will be posted to encourage people like the younger version of myself who want to fix their Eagle up and just don't know what they don't know to start.

It's slightly shameful that it took almost two years to post them but it should also be encouraging to those people waiting for me to follow through with the many projects I've undertaken. It should only be another year or two before I catch up and get them all done.

How to Determine Axle Ratio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-M_J00romA&feature=youtu.be

How to operate a Valve Spring removal tool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92D_TPxkb8&feature=youtu.be