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  • November 23, 2024, 02:02:56 PM

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Author Topic: Iron duke question  (Read 19049 times)

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Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2011, 02:38:58 PM »
Not iron duke but chevy 151. Looks just like my inboard outboard omc, which has a chevy 151.
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Offline BenM

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2011, 04:36:55 PM »
It's definitely an SBC pattern, and it has the lifter-cover. I'm thinking a pre-crossflow 70s head. Maybe someone had one sitting around for a rebuild?
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NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2011, 04:41:29 PM »
Quote from: BenM on November 07, 2011, 04:36:55 PM
It's definitely an SBC pattern, and it has the lifter-cover. I'm thinking a pre-crossflow 70s head. Maybe someone had one sitting around for a rebuild?

Not necessarily. My inboard outboard omc boat is a 79.
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Manitowoc WI

Offline captspillane

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2011, 07:56:08 PM »
I digged through a box of reciepts that came with the car. Two of them were from a parts store that listed the car used as a search tool. It said 1978 Chevy Monza. If thats the car the engine came from, it is an Iron Duke with a different head casting.

I've never even heard of a "Monza" before. There isn't any for sale on ebay for me to sneak engine pics from. It seems that some earlier Iron Dukes share a similar head as a SBC with the intake on the same side as the exhaust. I haven't been able to confirm this.

I absolutely love that I can see the fuel pump and that it has an HEI distributor in easy view. Our Eagle Iron Dukes are incredibly cramped on the passenger side.
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Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline captspillane

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2011, 08:36:26 PM »
I think right now that the engine is actually a marine engine. I think the Monza had the carb on the same side as our Eagles did. The other possibility is a SBC Head. Here is a link to a Monza forum where they discuss precedence of people using a SBC head on an Iron Duke short block.

In this thread they also mention GM marine engines being readily available with a displacement of 181. It would be awesome to know if the GM 181 marine engine will bolt right in to replace an Iron Duke. Indeed thats what I might have in this Kammback.

They also mention that it would be non-crossflow, which I take to mean the intake and exhaust on the same side, which matches what I have. The exact quote was "Just a note, that is a " non crossflow " head that will work on the 68 - 70 Nova 153 and the H Body 77- 78 151." If "H body refers to Monzas, then maybe it is indeed a 1978 Monza and only those two years have this head design. The Monza pictures I found didn't show an engine like mine.

http://forums.h-body.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=916&start=45
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Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline captspillane

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2011, 10:33:06 PM »
Mystery solved. My Kammback has a 1978 Chevy Monza engine in it.

The Iron Duke was first offered in 1978 to replace the 1977 Vega engine. The all aluminum Vega engine had a very bad reputation, so the name "iron duke" was meant to keep people from confusing the new engine with the old. In 1977 and in 1978 the Iron Duke had a non-cross flow head and Holley carb. It was 1979 that the crossflow head and Rochester carb appeared. The block and camshaft was slightly different too, since the distributor was closer to the center of the engine. The Iron Duke is essentialy half of a Pontiac 301 V8, to the point that all the bearings are the same and even that a V8 head will bolt up.

What I've learned alot about just now is the Iron Duke marine engines. The 2.5L marine engine gets a true 120 HP while the 3.0L Marine Engine gets a true 140 HP. Mercruiser 140 is another name for the 181 3.0L engine. Thats a huge difference from the automotive rating of 80 HP! The 181 engines are apparently extremely common too.

The best part is that the 151, 153, and 181 all share the same bolt patterns. In other words a 3.0L Iron Duke marine engine is a perfect swap candidate for an Eagle. Notice that the marine engines are not cross flow, they have the intake on the same side as the exhaust like this Monza engine.

The new S10 Iron Dukes sound great because they are fuel injected, but it turns out its the 181 marine engine adapted with megasquirt thats the ideal Iron Duke race engine. The S10 Iron Dukes never came close to 140 HP. Thats great news for us, since this means the ideal Iron Duke has the same bellhousing and motor mount pattern as our Eagles. Even better, its readily available for cheap. I can't believe this hasn't been discussed here on the forum already.
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Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline rollguy

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Re: Iron duke question
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2011, 11:16:55 PM »
Quote from: captspillane on November 07, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
The new S10 Iron Dukes sound great because they are fuel injected, but it turns out its the 181 marine engine adapted with megasquirt thats the ideal Iron Duke race engine. The S10 Iron Dukes never came close to 140 HP. Thats great news for us, since this means the ideal Iron Duke has the same bellhousing and motor mount pattern as our Eagles. Even better, its readily available for cheap. I can't believe this hasn't been discussed here on the forum already.
The S10 engine would have the wrong bell bolt pattern as well.  Eggs to you for the marine engine info!
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1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)
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