manual tranny

[IowaEagle]

Excellent informationT5258 it appears you have put a lot of research and study into this.  This info should be much appreciated by those running T5's.  I am going to sticky this so it will not get lost.

[a-haig]

I just got my sx4 a few hours ago, it leaks at the front main seal, and the tranny slips until it gets up to speed. I put transmission stop leak in it and, to my suprise it actually worked within minutes.

and as for my 5 speed wagon, a wondered if fluid was the problem, but I really didnt suspect it to much, with it being summer the 80-90 shouldnt be a problem... I hope.

where did you find stuff on recalls I havnt been able to find anything.

[IowaEagle]

If the front seal is leaking I would keep an eye on it.  Could be the torque converter input lugs cracked and have damaged the seal.

[a-haig]

please explain, Im a little tranmsmission retarded. Ive only learned what Ive I had to work on, and Ive never touched a transmission.

[IowaEagle]

One problem with this torque convertor, and its not just limited to AMC's, is that the input shaft from the torque convertor which goes into the front pump is of a "thin wall" construction.  On the end of the pump are two "lugs" which engage the pump and makes it work. The area where the lugs attach to the shaft can over time crack and cause the lugs to spread which will destroy the front pump seal and if let go long enough also take out the front pump. The leak first starts as drips and then becomes a steady stream as more damage to the seal takes place.  The only repair option you have is to pull the tranny, get a new converter, seal and bushing.  And, while you have it out if the trans needs an overhaul do that at the same time as most of the labor costs you incur is the removal and reinstallation of the transmission -- actual rebuild time and parts costs are pretty reasonable.  Also consider replacing the flex plate -- as the ring gear might show signs of wear after all these years and its best to do it while you have the trans out for other work.

[a-haig]

well good news is a tranny rebuild is going to be free plus parts.

[a-haig]

 where did you find the recall info

something else I found......from a Jeep forum.......



The problem with T-5 is very complex. From what I have read, the T-5 is rated to 265 ft-lb torque, the AX-15 is rated to 285 ft-lb, and the NV3550 is rated (conservatively) at 300 ft-lb. So, if it is nearly as strong as the AX-15, why does it have such a bad reputation?

I hit the website for http://www.5speeds.com/ talk about a shop that knows their T-5s...the guy was very very knowledgeable! He indicated the largest problems (that gave T-5s a bad rap) dealt with a recalled third gear (went from 29 spline to 27 spline).  That upgrade is supposed to help beef the thing up a good deal. Other problems deal with incorrect or improper fluid levels. These non-world class transmissions operate without needle bearings (instead having deep oil grooves). As such, they should only run gear oil.

I have done a decent bit of research on the "correct" fluid to use. A good friend is the Parts Manager at a local Jeep store and works with many mechanics who worked on these, I have looked over Factory Service Manuals from 1982, 1983, and 1984-1986, searched the Factory Recalls, and Tech Bulletins...

When they first came out, AMC recommended using ATF (1982 FSM). However, there was a recall for this in 1982 (Recall Number: 82V125000) indicating that the “ORIGINAL PRODUCTION TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT USED IN THE INVOLVED VEHICLES MAY NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO PROTECT THE TRANSMISSIONS FIRST GEAR.” FSM supplement for 1982 (Tech Bulletin) and the 1983 FSM both indicate to use 90wt in the T-5. By 1984, AMC started using a proprietary manual transmission lubricant. This was affectionately referred to as "fish oil" by the mechanics or AMC manual transmission fluid (Part Number 8983 000 000). This fluid was discontinued by AMC and currently, Chrysler is recommending the use of GL3 gear oil.

From my limited understanding, GL3 is very different from GL4 or GL5. I emailed Valvoline regarding this (as I haven't seen GL3 or GL4 in a very long time). They indicated that the issue is with the type of sulfate used in the lube. Apparently activated sulfate (used in some GL5 lubes) can eat brass synchros. Valvoline indicated: "The Valvoline High Performance Gear Oil 80-w90 can be used for both GL4 and GL5. The real concern is the type of sulfate used in the gear oil. You can not use an active sulfate for GL-4 applications. Valvoline uses an inactive sulfate that will not harm any yellow metal such as bronze. This allows our products to be used in manual transmissions that have bronze synchronizers."

All of this being said, there is an issue with shifting in colder climates. Apparently, the gear lube is almost too thick to allow smooth shifting on cold days, until the lube warms up a little. Many have reported good luck with synthetics, some have cut the gear lube with a little ATF, and some have reported good luck running 20w50 motor oil. I am not sure what the overall best solution is, but the only “Factory” recommended solution is to run 80-90…

I hope this was not too confusing, I have researched it a lot and written a similar dissertation in a lot of other forums. This is a little more concise...
twmattox is offline      Reply With Quote

[IowaEagle]

Its available thru a subscription service.

[monsterbronc]

Its available thru a subscription service.

subscription to what?

As for fluid,
you folks may or may not know, Im a professional diesel mechanic. I work on tractor-trailer semi trucks. recently all truck manufacturers have gone to fully synthetic 50w in the tranny and fully synthetic70-90w in the rearends. I have seen how much better the synthetics stand up to these big engines than the old mineral based stuff. we are getting as much as a million miles out of some of these trucks, and a few still have the original drivetrain,

so my t-4 has 1/2 qt lucas, and is filled the rest of the way with fully synthetic 50w transmission lube.

I used lucas to help it to stick to the parts, (if youve ever messed with the stuff you know what I mean, its like molasas) I actually was having a odd noise in the bronco (T-18 with mineral based 85-140w) took it apart and found nothing, put it back together still made an intermittant bering squeal. just for the heak of it I drained it and dumped in 1 qt of lucas, and filled it back up with fresh 85-140.
hasnt made a sound in the 3 years since, and as soon as I did it it started shifting smoother than it ever had when I bought it almost 10 years ago, the stick almost glides into the next hole.

[IowaEagle]

I forget where you subscribe too for the recall information.   I have stumbled across it before.  They also provide subsribers with the factory bulletins to make repairs.

[BenM]

I wish I still had the link to the Porshe forum I stumbled across where there was a huge discussion on this subject. See, they have a problem where the transmission and axle share the same fluid. One of the GL ratings (5, I believe) is really good for lubricating differential gears because it resists the shear forces, but eats the syncros. The other GL fluid that works really well with the syncros is not good for the diff.
There was one, special, expensive brand name fluid that was close enough to both to work adequately.

The point being that the GL-3, 4, & 5 names are types, not ratings. One is only better then the other depending on application. That quote is very good.

Gear oils are much higher numbers for the same viscosity then motor oils. Dextron was 10w-20 I believe, and Dextron III is 5w-20, and I believe that's similar to a 65w80 gear oil. But I'm pulling these numbers out of fuzzy memory.
 

[v0rt3x86]

Its available thru a subscription service.

subscription to what?

As for fluid,
you folks may or may not know, Im a professional diesel mechanic. I work on tractor-trailer semi trucks. recently all truck manufacturers have gone to fully synthetic 50w in the tranny and fully synthetic70-90w in the rearends. I have seen how much better the synthetics stand up to these big engines than the old mineral based stuff. we are getting as much as a million miles out of some of these trucks, and a few still have the original drivetrain,

so my t-4 has 1/2 qt lucas, and is filled the rest of the way with fully synthetic 50w transmission lube.

I used lucas to help it to stick to the parts, (if youve ever messed with the stuff you know what I mean, its like molasas) I actually was having a odd noise in the bronco (T-18 with mineral based 85-140w) took it apart and found nothing, put it back together still made an intermittant bering squeal. just for the heak of it I drained it and dumped in 1 qt of lucas, and filled it back up with fresh 85-140.
hasnt made a sound in the 3 years since, and as soon as I did it it started shifting smoother than it ever had when I bought it almost 10 years ago, the stick almost glides into the next hole.

Are you using synthetic Lucas? If not, blending the two (syn. oil / non-syn. Lucas) will cause foaming. A guy did a plexiglass gear box to prove it - it looks like a milkshake in about 10 seconds. I would highly recommend fully synthetic Lucas to match the lube used, however keep in mind that part of the wonderfulness of a synthetic fluid is that a much thinner film does the same job as the old molasses and there's less drag on the parts.

[Mr_AMC1987]

I have an 87 which I bought new..  It came with gear lube, in cold Ohio winters, you had to shift VERY fast, or double clutch on the upshift as the thick lube stops the transmission from spinning rather quickly.
  They came out with a service note.  change it to Dextron.

 In my workd.  no way in a manual box. 
I drained it and put in full synthetic 80W90   and it worked GREAT...

Jeff

[eaglebeek]

Its available thru a subscription service.

subscription to what?

As for fluid,
you folks may or may not know, Im a professional diesel mechanic. I work on tractor-trailer semi trucks. recently all truck manufacturers have gone to fully synthetic 50w in the tranny and fully synthetic70-90w in the rearends. I have seen how much better the synthetics stand up to these big engines than the old mineral based stuff. we are getting as much as a million miles out of some of these trucks, and a few still have the original drivetrain,

so my t-4 has 1/2 qt lucas, and is filled the rest of the way with fully synthetic 50w transmission lube.

I used lucas to help it to stick to the parts, (if youve ever messed with the stuff you know what I mean, its like molasas) I actually was having a odd noise in the bronco (T-18 with mineral based 85-140w) took it apart and found nothing, put it back together still made an intermittant bering squeal. just for the heak of it I drained it and dumped in 1 qt of lucas, and filled it back up with fresh 85-140.
hasnt made a sound in the 3 years since, and as soon as I did it it started shifting smoother than it ever had when I bought it almost 10 years ago, the stick almost glides into the next hole.

I'm also a diesel mechanic. My employer has also gone to a fully-synthetic 75-90 gear lube in rear ends. Our experience with partially-synthetic blends was severe foaming.

Our transmissions are all ZF HP590-series automatics and we are also using fully-synthetic transmission fluid.

The rationale was that with synthetics the change interval was extended. When it was done the vehicles had not been in service that long...so we don't have any data on life expectancy.

[eaglefreek]

I have an 87 which I bought new..  It came with gear lube, in cold Ohio winters, you had to shift VERY fast, or double clutch on the upshift as the thick lube stops the transmission from spinning rather quickly.
  They came out with a service note.  change it to Dextron.

 In my workd.  no way in a manual box. 
I drained it and put in full synthetic 80W90   and it worked GREAT...

Jeff

Many manual gear boxes spec Dexron. Heck, I use it in my dirt bike transmission and also as fork oil.