Time for a new ignition system?

[amcfool1]

hi, just as a bit of encouragement, Aren't Eagles FUN! they will fight you every step of the way, they are the MOST difficult cars I have EVER worked on, but, man, when you get 'em right, they are pure Rock & Roll! I have, along with my Eagle, a 77 Hornet AMX, a 78 Concord AMX, and a 79 Spirit, the Eagle is EXPONENTIALLY harder to work on, but, in a way, the most rewarding. My last eagle, an 82 Sedan, was the one I had the DUI/2150 motor, also, an 80 block, with 82 head, Crower cam, et, etc. and.. i built this thing for my wife! (it WAS a Limited, leather seats. A/C, power seats, etc), she liked it, and drove it every day for 10 years, then,when it wasn't  pretty anymore, i took it over, and drove it for another 11 years. 21 years, this thing got one of us to work and back, EVERY SINGLE DAY. It'a parts car now, died in 015, going to work one day, the left rear wheel fell off, axle snapped, I literally drove the wheels off that car!
Anyway, I just finished a 3 year restification of an 84 Eagle Sedan, Eagle #2, the "Phoenix". this time, I was going to challenge myself. (Wife no longer interested in driving 30+ year old cars) So, I decided to bring it back to stock, as in stock 84 engine controls, the computer, the feedback BBD, the knock sensor, the TVS, the whole nine yards! And, you know what? It was a major PITA, but...not impossible. I did it. took me over a year, hunting down these obscure sensors, or worse, the information on what they do, etc, but you know, the 84+ Eagles use 8 sensors to tell the computer what to tell the carb, and dist, and of those 8, 6, yes, SIX, are still available new, at your local auto parts store, IF you know what to ask for. Even the Stepper Motor is available as a rebuild! As is the computer!
The point here is not to get you to go back to stock, just to let you know it is available. The point is, over the last 2/3 years, I got a heck of an education, and a new appreciation of AMCs last gasp at survival, the 84-88 Eagles. The final, 84-88 engine management system, from AMC, is actually quite impressive. They JUST didn't take to the next level.
Anyway, this was the beginning of engine computer control, and in 84+ 258s. the computer really did control everything. Those 8 sensors, sent info to the computer, Including, the distributor, which acted as another sensor, then, the computer sent a spark, NOT the distributor. In essence, that old school distributor was acting like a modern "crank trigger", while at the same time the computer was sending signal to the stepper motor on the carb, to maintain a good A/F ratio. Pretty cool, eh? It worked flawlessly, as long as all sensors are alive and kickin'. Not so much, once people start pulling stuff off without knowing what they are doing.
Anyway, enough from me, just a story from America, good luck, y'all, gz

[OverKnight]

Thanks for the encouragement, gz, I could use it at this point.  Not to be boastful, but I can fix almost anything... except this car.  I'm sure we'll get it running well again, but it's taking far more time than it should.  I tip my hat to your accomplishment of returning an Eagle engine to stock condition; I wish I had the time and patience.  Joe would like to keep this car as stock as possible, but we've already replaced the distributor, carburetor and valve cover with non-stock parts.  Since this car is his daily transportation, reliability is very important, so I'd like to take the rest of the unused wires out; it just adds to the confusion, and could possibly be creating additional problems.  He's kept everything we've already removed, so we can add these to the pile.

I sent a second email to Gronk, but no response yet.  We did a partial disassembly of the carburetor yesterday.  Nothing really appeared to be amiss, but I'd like to get a complete rebuild kit, completely disassemble it, give everything a good soak in carburetor cleaner and then reassemble, carefully checking everything.

[OverKnight]

"Not to knock gronk, but the stuff he sold in 012 to the the stuff he sells now, is a different world. some of his carbs had bad castings, and needed to be cleaned out, not really his fault, but, there it is."

This makes me wonder... this is the oldest-looking four year old carburetor I've ever seen.  The interior looks fine (even with the corrosive liquid sold as gas these days), but it's heavily corroded on the outside.  The original carburetor on my '57 Chevy looks better than this.  Perhaps the quality of the metal used in the castings aren't as good as they could be.  Also, someone reviewed Gronk's 2150 carburetor on the JeepForum.com, and pointed out that there were no markings on the carb.  The reviewer ultimately felt it was a genuine Motorcraft carburetor, but these both raise some concern about what we actually purchased in 2012.

I'd feel better about everything if Gronk responded, but nothing yet.  Maybe he'll respond to this thread at some point.  I don't mean to criticize Gronk; it's only been four days since I sent him a message via eBay (probably not the best way to reach him) and two days since I emailed him directly, so it's too early to get on him for not responding.  I'll drop him another email, and maybe give his cell a ring.

[hillbilly]

Gronk's carbs are Motorcraft 2150's and 2100's.

[OverKnight]

I finally reached Gronk this week, by text.  He asked me to send him pictures of the carb, as there are hundred of variations.  I've read that the power valve diaphragm can be damaged from backfiring, which has happened when the ignition wasn't right, so I'm betting this is the main problem.

[mudkicker715]

The carb is not going to show the so called hundred variationw.   But good luck anyway.

[OverKnight]

He wasn't specific about what views he wanted.  I can't believe how difficult it is to get the correct rebuild kit for this carb...

[amcfool1]

hi, if the carb is from Gronk, you probably won't find a kit except maybe through him. Ceteris paribus, the Motorcrafts were very similar throughout the years. for example, the same kit is used for 77-81 AMC, p/n K4321, and for 81-92 Jeep, p/n K6070., this one may work for you. These are about $60. There is also a generic 2150 kit, p/n K450, for about $21.. This may be a good place to start. All part #s from Mike's Carburetors. (www.carburetor-parts.com)  He also sells individual parts, ie diaphrams, power valves, needles/seats, etc, so you can "build" your own kit. The Motorcraft is one of the easier carbs to rebuild, so, good luck!, gz

[OverKnight]

Thanks, amcfool1.  I wish I looked more closely at the carburetor when I last had it apart.  I don't even remember if it has a single or two stage power valve.  I'll look at it more closely and take some pictures tomorrow.  I'll also suggest to Gronk that he provide the part number for the rebuild kit with each carburetor he sells.

[amcfool1]

hi, so how is it going? get the thing together? let us know! good luck, gz

[OverKnight]

Thanks for asking; both Joe and I have been quite busy and haven't been able to follow through on this.  The Eagle's still running poorly, with a lot of hesitation on acceleration.  After emailing Gronk with every address I had for him, I tried texting, to which he responded.  Since there have been many variations of this carburetor, he asked me to send him a few pictures.  I have a horrible old "dumb phone", i.e., not a smart phone, so I asked if I could email him the pictures.  He have me a work email to send them to.  We finally were able to take the pictures this past weekend, and I'll try to send them out tonight.

[OverKnight]

A late follow-up on this thread; we've sent Gronk multiple texts and emails.  After multiple emails, he responded to a text, and said there are dozens of variations of these carburetors, and to send him some pictures (as above), which were sent.  His response (after more requests from me for a response) was any kit would work, and then said, "You have a 2100, right?"  He said he could sell me a kit for $45.00.  Why did he ask for the pictures if his response wasn't gong to be specific, which was the entire reason I first contacted him?  I'd have no problem purchasing a kit from him, but I'd hoped for a more expedient way of getting this than having it shipped from him.  The many different kits cost anywhere from the low $20 range into the mid $60's.  I'm okay with spending a little more and having unneeded parts, but I do not want to buy a kit and find it has the wrong parts or is missing the correct parts.  All I want from him is either a NAPA or Motorcraft part number, or the make, year and model of a car that came equipped with this carburetor.

I'm quite disappointed in his after-sale support

[amcfool1]

Hi, I would start with one of the cheaper kits, ie the K450, or local equivalent, and purchase a power valve separately. Chances are that this carb came on NO stock application. Again, the 2150s are a fairly basic carb, and I don't think there are "hundreds" of variations. There are perhaps more than a few variations, but not hundreds. These carbs were used on AMC 304 and 360s, and on a lot of the smaller Ford V8s. Try a kit for a 81-83 Jeep 304. I really don't think Gronks carbs are original Motorcraft/Autolite carbs, since these have not been produced in decades. I believe these are offshore castings, which is why he can sell them as "New" carbs. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but, offshore QC can be spotty. He probably does not have kits because his line of carbs is simply not "old" enough yet to need too many rebuilds.
he has sold a lot of 'em though, so they must be pretty good overall. good luck, gz

[OverKnight]

Thanks, amcfool1, we'll try what you've suggested.  Since the majority of this thread is no longer about ignition systems, I'll probably restart this thread in the carburetor section.