Fuel pump specs

[DaemonForce]

I used to have issue with my mechanical fuel pump but lately I've been experimenting with secondary fuel sources that do not correspond with the intended specs of the fuel pump design: liquid petrol. Instead, I'm trying to work with fuel sources that are already in vapor form and possibly something else later on. I believe the original design of these pumps was that a liquid fuel would pass through as well as lubricate the pump.

My concern is that a vapor fuel will fail to lubricate the pump and burn it up after a short period. Because of this, I'm trying to figure out if it's safe to feed a vaporized fuel through the same pump or eliminate the pump setup entirely. I know this would be much easier to skip if I just had an electrical fuel pump but I have other things that need to be in check. Any ideas?

[standup650]

Sounds like your either going to go with propane or fuel injection. if you are trying to move vapor you need a propane setup. and i would only use petrol in a vapor form at the fuel injector other wise your just driving a big bomb.

[carnuck]

Heat the fuel AFTER the fuel pump. No more than 160 degrees or it vapor locks. After 200 degrees, it can burst lines at your filter and catch fire (your don't want to know how I know that)

[DaemonForce]

Sounds like your either going to go with propane or fuel injection. if you are trying to move vapor you need a propane setup. and i would only use petrol in a vapor form at the fuel injector other wise your just driving a big bomb.

It's pretty similar but the general idea defeats the onboard fuel pump, carburetor and the multipoint injection setup. As of today I am in the market for an ancient AMC injection manifold that I might be able to tear off of a Comanche and then repurpose it for mechanical injection. The problem I'm facing at the moment is that I need to decrease the pressure of the vapor fuel rather than pressurize it(dangerous). Throttle body setup might be feasible. Before I get to any of that I need to first disable the engine's mechanical fuel pump without destroying it. Any ideas on how to do that? I want to avoid replacing it with a junk electrical pump if possible. :/

Heat the fuel AFTER the fuel pump. No more than 160 degrees or it vapor locks. After 200 degrees, it can burst lines at your filter and catch fire (your don't want to know how I know that)

Flash arrestor. :/

There is no preheating here. The vapor is incredibly combustible at normal engine temps and the rate at which it is finely structured makes it and the engine incredibly powerful. The only heating that should be going on is within the engine itself. If anything I need a cooler for the intake manifold.

[Jurjen]

Combustible gasses can be mixed in the airflow.
Simple LPG systems kept the carburator and put a venturi in the air inlet tube.
The gassified LPG was t'eed into the venturi to make a combustible gas with the right mixture, this way the throttle in the carburretor still has the same function.
To make the system complete two electric shut-offs were added: one for the LPG and the other in the fuel line. A switch was used to select either LPG or gas.
To vaporize the LPG without freezing up the lines a evaporator was added that used the water from the cooling system to evaporate the gas.

I hope that you are not thinking about a hydrogen generator in your car, that doesn't bring you anything!

[Jurjen]

The principles of gaseous carburation, start on page 3.
http://www.carbturbo.com/installation.pdf

[DaemonForce]

Combustible gasses can be mixed in the airflow.
Simple LPG systems kept the carburator and put a venturi in the air inlet tube.
The gassified LPG was t'eed into the venturi to make a combustible gas with the right mixture, this way the throttle in the carburretor still has the same function.
To make the system complete two electric shut-offs were added: one for the LPG and the other in the fuel line. A switch was used to select either LPG or gas.

I guess it can't be avoided then.

I hope that you are not thinking about a hydrogen generator in your car, that doesn't bring you anything!

Oh and why is that? It seems to be a great fuel to me.

.....

Unfortunately I can't use it exclusively which means it ends up being a mixture with petrol. I'm trying to get off of the petrol. I'm using something else entirely and I need to get rid of the onboard fuel pump!

[Jurjen]

The hydrogen is OK as a fuel. On board hydrogen generators take more energy than they can produce in the form of hydrogen (law of conservation of energy).

Whatever fuel you have in mind, you could just by-pass the existing system.

[carnuck]

If you're using the alternator to make it, then it takes very little extra energy to make HHO at highway speed. Same with sitting at a traffic light. That is assuming less than 20 amps needed to make it?

[Jurjen]

The problem is producing it with an ICE with 25% efficiency and alternator with maybe 60% efficiency. Again you burn the HHO in the ICE that is running with 25% efficiency.
You losing energy (in the form of heat) all the way.

HHO produced by solar energy would be something else.
Storing it is another problem, it needs 3000 psi to go liquid (LPG only needs 150 psi).

A very nice process  would be to reduce HHO (produced with solar energy) with CO2 (carbondioxide taken from the air) to Methanol. Methanol will burn in both ICE's and fuel cells and the existing distribution network could be used. It will burn into water and carbondioxide again. Nobelprize winner professor Olah has written some good publications about this subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_economy

[DaemonForce]

If you're using the alternator to make it, then it takes very little extra energy to make HHO at highway speed. Same with sitting at a traffic light. That is assuming less than 20 amps needed to make it?

Roughly 14A.

The problem is producing it with an ICE with 25% efficiency and alternator with maybe 60% efficiency. Again you burn the HHO in the ICE that is running with 25% efficiency.
You losing energy (in the form of heat) all the way.

The current efficiency rate isn't my concern. This is just a test right now anyway. If this goes well I might alter my spare engine.

Storing it is another problem, it needs 3000 psi to go liquid (LPG only needs 150 psi).

I'm not concerned with condensing a vapor or storing it as a liquid. The production rate defeats this problem entirely. LPG or ammonia mix is what I have in mind as the main fuel. It's not a big improvement but it's the best I can do under current conditions. It would be nice if I could do a bioalcohol mix.

A very nice process would be to reduce HHO (produced with solar energy) with CO2 (carbondioxide taken from the air) to Methanol. Methanol will burn in both ICE's and fuel cells and the existing distribution network could be used. It will burn into water and carbondioxide again. Nobelprize winner professor Olah has written some good publications about this subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_economy

Again with the liquid...I've been reading similar data on this matter but the direction always goes way out of focus.

[rohnk]

Found this in the fuel systems forum. Propane conversion info.

http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=31793.0

[DaemonForce]

Found this in the fuel systems forum. Propane conversion info.

http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=31793.0

Thanks. It looks like there's no way around the fuel pump issue though. I'll just have to seal it off with some electronic pump.

[Jurjen]

You would just need a fuel shut off valve:

http://12voltfuelvalves.com/12-volt-fuel-shut-off-valves.html

[standup650]

maybe this helps
http://www.snowperformance.net/