Greetings
Looking for some insight, knowlage and winsom regarding swapping in a NSG370
I read some where that you can only use a 2005-2006 version.
I have a line on a 2005 NSG370 for &650. I asked Novac and they were prompt with an answer of the possibility of it not being clocked right.
Does anyone have some insight to the difficulties or ease of swapping this one in.
Thanks! What a great forum!!
At least one guy did it a few years ago in an SX4. I don't remember which transfer case he used and what issues popped up. What transfer case do you plan on using?
I have a 229 to go in but I also have a 129 I have a 727 to go in but I would really prefer a manual.
Do you know if a spirits pedals wil work?
I'm also on the hunt for the clutch master cylinder.
I don't know much about pedal interchange, but I would assume if it's hydraulic, it will probably be the same. You might have to use a clocking ring as a spacer to make the 129 or 229 work, so the clocking shouldn't make a difference. However, for some reason, Jeep used 3 different transfer case input shaft lengths and you might not have to use a spacer if the TJ the transmission came out of used a long input shaft.
Quote from: captspillane on October 25, 2011, 02:27:33 PM
This picture shows my NSG370 6 Speed to the far left. Next to it is the NV3550 5 speed. There are two T5s sitting to the right of that. The second picture shows an AX15. The third picture shows the crank position sensor hole on the NV3550, AX15, AW4, and TF999. The fourth picture shows the crank position sensor hole on the NSG370. The notches in the flywheel are identical, but clocked differently because the 6 speed hole is on the side. The engine will not run if you use a 5 speed 4.0 flywheel with the 6 speed. I'll have to get a better picture of the AX15 next to the NV3550 next time I'm home.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110455.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110513.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/09-22-10_1901.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/09-22-10_1902.jpg)
Apparently back in 2011 I wrote all the information you're asking for in this thread. Its a sticky at the top of the same section we're posting in now.
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=27.0
The NSG370 (6 speed used in 2005-2006 TJs) uses the same throwout lever and external clutch master cylinder as the NV3550 (2002-2004 TJs) as well as the later AX15s (1995ish to 2002). I purchased an Advanced Adaptors NV3550 slave cylinder and simply popped off the quarter inch thick plastic spacer because I had already bought new NV3550 and NSG370 slaves and saw that they were nearly the same except for that spacer. The Advanced Adaptors kit is special because it replaces the stupid plastic lines with flared line that is easier to use with the Eagle Master cylinder. You must use the actual Eagle master cylinder.
Unlike the earlier five speeds, the NSG370 has a cast bellhousing built into it. A newer Jeep 2007 on will still have an NSG370 but it will not work behind a 4.0 because the bell is different and built in.
The CPS is round and on the side instead of square and on top. They rotated the notches on the flywheel to match. If you don't use the CPS then it won't matter and the AX15 flywheel will work. The Eagle flywheel will not. I got a round CPS from a 32RH to use in the hole because my OBD1 harness has a different voltage level than the OBD2 sensor that is supposed to be there. If you don't use MPI that won't matter.
Spirit pedals do not have the pin on the side. A real Eagle or 4 cyl Spirit will have the pin, but it will be crappy and likely broken. Either way you will need to make a better pin eventually. In that case the Spirit pedals are just as good as real Eagle ones..
4 cly spirit pedals work, that's whats in my sons sx4 now as the original one was broken when we got the car.
I don't get on here much anymore, but thought I could help you out with any questions you had about the NSG370 swap. It isn't an easy task but can help where I can. I completed this swap back in 2006 or 7 (can't remember), and have been driving with it ever since (as minimal as that has been). I should have documented it better, but hind sight being 20/20...
Hi amcman76 thanks, thanks to captspillane and to all that have helped. It's is really a great forum!
I'm sure I'm going to have more questions. Let me run what I have planned.
I have a nsg370 coming from a 2005 jeep wrangler sport.
I'm going to the flywheel and starter from it too just to me sure.
I have a set of pedals from an early spirit and an eagle master clutch cylinder resivoir on the way
Question; am I going to need a "manual" crossmember or is there a need for modifications to the auto crossmember?
I'm going to try a dorman cm39516 master clutch cylinder.
I'm going to take captspillane advice get an advanced adaptors slave cylinder.
And a lux clutch/pressure plate kit
No here is another problem/question. I have an NP229 t/c that's been rebuilt and I would like to install.
Is this a bolt up or is there something additional need? Drive shaft modifications? Any insights.
Currently I don't have plans to change out the 258 but that's likely to change.
I'm really excited to more forward on this project and really appreciate being here. Thanks!!
I used a 242 transfer case and i can see how the additional length would cause a problem with the original transfer case. I had to use a clocking ring to get the tranny up to original height. Crossmember has to be built from scratch. The old drive shaft works fine with the slip yoke on the 242 T-case. Had to use the flywheel and clutch from the 2006 Jeep, Flywheel bolts were hard to find and used old pontiac. Resevoir location for the master cylinder was a pain.
Nice work Jpgreen! What to you think of the 6-speed and 242?
I'm wondering if I'm going to have to plan on havering the full transition to the 6-speed for the spring. I'm trying to gather the parts for the manual conversion. I have a 6-speed lined up with the flywheel and starter.
I'm intrested to know more about the flywheel bolts.
Which flywheel bolts need to be obtained? the ones from an old pontiac?
What's the differance in the new and old bolts! Do you recall the size?
I managed to pull the carb today on my way down to the intake and exhaust manafolds because Im replacing the exaust mansfold. While I have them out I'm go going to pull power brake booster if necessary to fit the clutch .master cylinder.
Thinking about it this morning I'm getting scared by the the 6speed swap.
It's going to be a bunch to swap to manual, afraid I'm getting in over my head.
I'm assuming a 5-speed is less involved.
That's the easiest simplest fit. T5, ax-15, t-10
I would like to use my NP229 or Np129.
Any thoughts??
To answer your questions:
I used the NSG370 flywheel, slave cylinder (plastic and cheap, but hasn't failed yet), clutch, and all flywheel bolts. I used the Spirit master cylinder with remote reservoir. The crossmember was custom made and mounts further back due to the length of the transmission. I used the stock 129 without the clocking ring. I had to "finesse" the floor pan to clear the transfer case. The tranny actually sits a little lower so I had to change the angle of the rear pinion shaft a bit. I had the rear driveshaft shortened and the front one lengthened at a driveline shop.
The slave cylinder was a little tricky being that the hole isn't in the firewall yet so you have to find the proper location. I used a greenlee knockout punch for that. I reinforced the area with 1/8 inch plate. Before making the hole make sure you put the pedals in first to get the right geometry. Don't forget it is not just the pedals but the shouldered bolt for the pedals you will need too. I only got the pedals at first and had a hard time finding a bolt afterwards. You will have to modify the tranny tunnel to get the shifter through the floor and will have to cut a little to get the bolts into the engine block unless you pull the engine a little bit. The bellhousing is super long and the access is poor.
A t5 would be a much easier swap, since it was a factory fit and they are short, but they aren't near as strong and not near as cool. :)
I barely ever get in 6th gear because I haven't swapped out the 2.35 gears yet. I only get in sixth on the highway doing about 75. That is the next step for me is a rear axle swap and front gear swap. However I am contemplating just selling the car since I barely have time for it anymore and it is not exactly a roomy "family" vehicle and maybe get an Eagle or Matador wagon.
Flywheel bolts were Pontiac 389. Of the eagle vs jeep bolts one was to long and one set to short, cant remember the size. As for hoe i like it I also still have 2.35 gears and drove it twice to work with the front driveshaft out in low range. Then carb issues, then electrical problem, then chronic pain and i havent messed with it
AX-15 is a better swap than T5 by far.
Well, I love the idea of the 6-speed but don't think I have the time to fit it.
Is it true the shifter comes up in a different location?
I'm going to have to "shift gears" and try to the ax-15 or T-5. What makes the ax-15 a better swap?
Another question, is the transmission crossmember different for manual vs the automatic? If they are different could the automatic be modified?
It thay are different be on the hunt for one of those.
Thanks for the I put.
they are different crossmembers.
I only had to modify the pre-existing auto tranny shifter hole slightly(to the back and way off to one side (jeep tranny centered and eagle off-center). The auto crossmember wasnt even close, if you did modify it that much it would just look like :censored:.
AX-15 is stronger than T5 by about 1.5. There are different T5s and the Eagle and CJ ones are NOT the World Class version. I doubt they are even as strong as the Turbo 2.3L Mustang, Cougar and Tbird version.
There are 2 different Jeep AX-15s as well. The TJ version has the shifter further forward and tcase is tipped differently too.
I'm curious how similar the cases are between the AMC t5 and the world class. How many parts are interchangeable? Maybe you could build one with the eagle case and world class internals?
There is no WC T5 4x4 output shaft or it would've been done by now. The $3K price wouldn't stop the serious offroaders
Well,
Im really up in the air on which way to go.
I have a line in an 2005 nsg370
1998 Cherokee ax-15 flywheel starter ect
And tracing down a t-5, flywheel starter ect
I'm willing to get into some fabrication
Not I don't want to get to far in over my head.
The rest of the swap (pedels, master clutch cylinder ect)
Seams easyier.
I would like to keep the factory console,
I would prefer to avoid touch extra costs with drive shaft lengths,
How much is involved with the ax-15
Jeep bell housing? It eagle housing?
Piolet bearing seems to have an answer.
Ax-15 do you need drive shaft lengths?
Ugh, just the lead up to the swap is work.
Thanks to all who have posted.
Quote from: DownwardFlame on December 10, 2014, 10:54:18 AM
I'm curious how similar the cases are between the AMC t5 and the world class. How many parts are interchangeable? Maybe you could build one with the eagle case and world class internals?
Its been done. A guy in northerneaster PA used to sell reman units and you could buy it already worked up as a "World-Class." There was a really good write-up on the process that I have saved somewhere and I remember that there was one small detail that could not be upgraded, but most of the stuff was possible. I'm pretty sure they bored some bearing retainers to a larger size and did some other magic.
My opinion is that the T5 is perfect behind a stock engine, even up to a 304 V8. It shifts rather smoothly and has very little inertia, so it is fun and fuel efficient. Very easy to rebuild and cheap to find. If you want to upgrade over 200 HP or if you want to beat on it or tow, then the AX15 or even better the NV3550 is a good choice. The NV3550 is much stronger than an AX15 but it is feels rather clunky in comparison.
It doesn't make too much sense to put so much time into a T5 because even the world class ones suffer from distortion of the housing. Its just too puny in size to keep from flexing. Of course you can buy the really rigid really expensive aftermarket housings but that's just not cost effective given all the other choices out there.
Thankyou captspillane
You have givien me the little bit of guidance I needed to point me in a direction that I can accomplish
It's been a more difficult task funding a t5 than the nsg370 it the ax15.
I'm sure that one will show up.
Are there years or engine sizes that don't swap between eagles?
I came across a 5speed from a 4 cyl that was listed with the notes vin "u" only
Does that mean there were 5 speeds that were only for the 4 cylinders?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that the bellhousing are 4speed and 5speed specific.
If anyone has a line on a 5 speed set up, I'm looking.
Thanks again to all
Hi
I'm curious about the parts I'm going to need for the bell housing and transmission.
As I understand it (as I start my journey on learning about my eagle)
That the 4-speed bell housings bolt are different than the 5.
I'm going for a manual because I much prefer them to autos and for fuel economy.
Its going to be my daily driver so I need to be able to aford to drive it.
So I'm down to finding the bell housing, slave cylinder, clutch through out bearing,
Transmission and cross members. Going with a bolt in for now is going to be helpful.
Any ideas on easy alturnitive sources for a t5 that could be bolted up,
I've read about other cars, other AMC models, mustangs, derangos, and more with t5's but not much about how to prepare one to bolt in to eagles with there transfer cases.
SR4/5 is the only 4 or 5 speed only bells that I know of. T4/5 bells are the same. AX-15 has a 4 cyl (in Dakotas only with AMC 2.5L ) and a 6 cyl bell. (they also have a Toyota bell and some other motors) The most common 4 cyl trans in Jeeps other than Eagles is AX5 which wouldn't stand up to the 4.0L (I thought it was dumb they stuck them on the 2.1L turbo diesel in XJs!)
I would definitely go for an AX-15 over the others.
Thanks sounds good
Seems as if the ax-15 is easier to get than anything else.
I've been doing alot of digging but I'm still kind of unsure of some things.
If I were to put and ax-15 in an eagle
How much fabrication is needed for the rear crossmember?
Will a 229 (with a properly clocked tale housing for speedo)
Would drive shaft modifications be required
How about the bell housing/flywheel? Both from the jeep?
I guess last question what year jeeps would be the best donners?
I thought I heard about the shifter not located properly for some.
I'm looking forward to the swap. I'm prepared to pull the intake and exaust manifold
(Need to replace broken exaust manifold)
I'm going to pull the power brake/master cylinder assembly because its goin to help with master clutch cylinder w/remote resivoir install.
Then I'm going to pull the transmission and transfer case out.
Hope to get all that done in the next 5-days.
Thanks for the help and guidance! Love this forum. Love my eagle!!
Great to be back in the AMC game.
No, the bellhousings are not different between 4 speeds and 5 speed Eagles. Those would be SR4 in 1981, then T4 in 1982 up with the T5 as an option.
I put a T5 from a 6 cylinder into a 4 cyclinder SR4 spot. I included the entire clutch system. The bulge of the fifth gear covers two holes so they used a single threaded bolt on the T5 where the SR4 used to have two through bolts. That was literally the only difference between them externally. You do not even need to remove the bellhousing or disturb the clutch to make the swap. Four bolts slides the input shaft out and then the new input shaft slides in. Done.
Avoid the SR4 like the plague.
Remember that if you have automatic driveshafts they won't work with a T5. You're better off with an AX15 or NV3550 because it matches the same length as the old auto trans.
You can use an AX15 or NV3550 behind a T5 bellhousing. That is the easiest way to install one, and is necessary when you use an AX15 behind an AMC V8 or in a Jeep with mechanical clutch linkages. My CJ8 has this style of install with an NV3550, which is backwards compatible with the AX15 except a very small detail that doesn't effect the adaptor. Advanced Adaptors makes an adaptor plate that goes between the bell and the trans to make up for the 3/4" difference in input shaft length. Splines are the same. Nose diameter is different. You can actually use the same old 4.2L flywheel, starter, clutch plate, throwout bearing, and clutch mechanism. Only this simple adaptor plate and a different crank bushing changes.
This is a good post to read about someone who has already done what you want to do. There is a couple things that he did the hard way of doing, especially his speedo cable, but all around he did it as cheaply as anyone could have possibly done it.
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=21335.new#new