Howdy all,
Going to be pulling the engine, transmission and t-case from the XJ soon, just need a bit of help.
1 - Should I use the existing Eagle crossmember?
2 - What transmission mount should I use?
3 - For the shifter linkage I noticed that the XJ has sort of a plate bolted over the tranmission mount. Is this something I can put into the Eagle, or will something else have to be fabbed up?
If anyone can offer some insight I'd appreciate it.
I haven't done it in an Eagle yet (unless you count SOTE) but a custom crossbar seems to be the way to go. I did that in two of my Jeep J10s (ended up parting the one out). XJ mount is similar to the Eagle one, but it's taller, as is the trans tailstock.
Might have to modify the Eagle transmission mount bar, possibly lower it. Think I should snag a XJ or Eagle mount to use?
1. I modified the XJ crossmember. I cut it and welded some angle iron that I fabbed up and it bolts in to the stock location. I'm out of town until Sunday and will try to remember to take a pic of the crossmember when I get home.
2. I used a mount for a Volvo to try to get the crossmember up as high as possible. http://www.ipdusa.com/products/8890/101170-hd-manual-transmission-mount
3. No idea. I used the existing transfer case shifter from the NP229 that I already had installed. If you don't use it, you'll have to figure something out to shift the case.
The transfer case shifter is directly up through the floor. I image I'll have to cut the floor and make something to steady it up.
As for the cable shift on my AW4 I'll figure something out.
I used an transmission shifter from a XJ. I tried for quite some time to make the stock one work, but couldn't. You might want to look into the transfer shifter cable available from Novak. http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/shifters/sk2xc.htm You will have to install a Jeep transfer case shifter though.
I finally got the pics of my crossmember.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-6839-1405612943331_zps3085690b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-6839-1405612943331_zps3085690b.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-1504-1405612896678_zps97ed31e5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-1504-1405612896678_zps97ed31e5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-21503-1405612966360_zpsfadcd0c1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-21503-1405612966360_zpsfadcd0c1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-16547-1405612919728_zpsa2d5813f.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/photobucket-16547-1405612919728_zpsa2d5813f.jpg.html)
Nice! The hang down on each side should be cut down unless you plan rock rails? Building a skidplate?
Are you talking about here?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/7d8753d9-e0ec-4c0d-87f4-aa0914fadd97_zps694094f2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/7d8753d9-e0ec-4c0d-87f4-aa0914fadd97_zps694094f2.jpg.html)
If so, the "hang down" is exaggerated in the pics. It's only about 1/4". Enough to have some room to get a weld. It is still higher than the bottom of the crossmember and transfer case. I got some 1/4" plate aluminum from the scrap yard that I will use to make a skid plate someday to protect everything.
I've read that some people use the stock Eagle crossmember and drill for the XJ transmission mount. Might have to take that into consideration.
I don't see how the Eagle crossmember would work. I tried and it wasn't even close to being able to work.
Drilling holes in it to fit the XJ mount is what I saw.
The aw4 is longer than the 998 and the mount is further back. The crossmember needs to be moved back about 2 or 3 inches and I didn't see a way to make the 998 crossmember work.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-05_14-36-53_621_zpsc58c2415.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-05_14-36-53_621_zpsc58c2415.jpg.html)
I imagine they used what they had. Drilled more holes and mounted everything onto the Eagle cross member and put it where it had to be.
The post is around here somewhere.
We added a piece of square tubing on each side between the frame and XJ or MJ (forget which) crossmember we put in. Max98059 welded the tubing to his car. I would figure where the crossbar needed to be and drill holes in a piece of rectangular tubing that over lapped both sets of holes.
From another thread:
Quote from: Baskinator on September 19, 2014, 10:32:49 PM
Probably better for a different thread, but I would be quite interested to see what you did to wire up the AW4 since it's electronically controlled.
I used a TCU from a Renix era Cherokee. Those TCUs provide 5v power to the TPS. If you use a later TCU and have a carbed engine, you'll need to provide a 5v source to the TPS. I went to the junkyard and cut out what I needed from a harness.The TCU is mounted inside the dash on the passenger side. I pulled the TCU and from the outside, pulled out the wiring harness that had the connector for the TCU. Getting the transmission end of the harness off, can be a bear. The transfer case linkage gets in the way. I was lucky and found a 2wd XJ which made it much easier to remove. After removing the connectors from the transmission, at the firewall I took apart the loom as much as possible and cut the rest of the wires. There will be some power wires, ground wires and the wires going to the TPS. I took the TPS and connector with a few inches of wire. I made a bracket for the TPS to hook up to my carb. I used the bracket from the Jeep that holds the throttle cable and TV cable to mount the TV cable. I cut it and welded it to the bellcrank for the throttle. Off the top of my head, there only a few wires that will need to be terminated. 3 wires ran to the TPS, a couple power wires, one to constant and one to a switched source, a wire to the brake switch that senses 12v so it unlocks the converter, a few grounds, and NSS. I ran the TCU harness through the hole in the firewall where the wires for the carb computer went through. The XJ's oval grommet wound up being the same exact size as the Eagle's. Once again, I'm out of town till the end of the month and can't get any pictures.
That's pretty much the same as mine. Renix is much easier to pluck it from. I used the leftovers from the harness of an '88 XJ I parted some time ago. SOTE will go EFI later but for now has a manal controller (someone stole the 4.2 and AW4 that was pulled for rebuilding)
Did you use the existing transmission Mount holes and create a bracket to mount off of those? I think that's what my end plan will be.
As for the wiring, the body is rotted enough on the donor that I'll just rip holes in the :censored: to get what I need.
My mechanic friend and I are going to fab up all the other stuffs, cut holes, make brackets and stuff, to fit it all in.
First, I'm going with the FSJ and using the 6 cyl trans mount holes. On SOTE, we used the XJ member and added a spacer to the floor. For my Eagle I plan to make an extender plate from the Eagle mount or build a crossbar.
Couple questions,
1. What did you do for the shifter and driveshafts?
2. What gear ratio were you both running? I don't think the overdrive would work very well with my 2.35 gears
Quote from: Baskinator on September 21, 2014, 02:25:04 AM
Couple questions,
1. What did you do for the shifter and driveshafts?
2. What gear ratio were you both running? I don't think the overdrive would work very well with my 2.35 gears
1. I used the shifter from an XJ. It's not 100% done. I wasn't able to figure out how to mount the indicator plate and just have a rubber boot over the shifter. I installed a 242 transfer case. I think there will be some major interference with the floor if the 129 is used. I had to have the front shaft made longer and I got a rear shaft from a 2wd ZJ shortened.
2. 2.35's definitely won't work. I have 225/75/15's and had 3.07's before the install and they weren't up to the task. It would jump in and out of OD until after 70 mph. I've got 3.54's now and feel that would be the highest that should go with an AW4. 3.73's if a lot of towing will be done.
I agree with those gears. I think a 3.2x may work in a pinch (found some out there but aren't going to touch it).
From my measurements, the transmission mount will be back a few inches. I think I'll fab up a plate to bolt into the stock position then drop a bit and allow the XJ transmission mount to work.
Driveshaft in the rear should be fine as is. Front with a 242 I think would have to be lengthened...231 should be fine as is.
4x4 shifter will need to be accounted for with some fab work (hole in the floor needs to be cut).
AW4 shifter in the XJ is a cable shifter. Should be able to gussy that up with relative ease I hope. ( http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Transmission_and_Transfer_Case/Transmission_Automatic_Shifter_Adjustments.htm )
Wondering how similar the transmission hump is on the XJ with the Eagle. The XJ has a "plate" over that area that has all the needed cut out areas, as well as the mount for the shifter. I might try to tap that out to see how well it'd fit...would make the conversion a LOT simpler. It situates the shifter above the tunnel, no hole needed so I could weld that shut.
Here's a link to what I'm talking about : http://blog.choppedoctopus.com/2012/11/jeep-cherokee-xj-rusty-floors.html
Quote from: Nightpath on September 21, 2014, 03:58:34 PM
Driveshaft in the rear should be fine as is. Front with a 242 I think would have to be lengthened...231 should be fine as is.
Maybe if a SYE is installed. Otherwise you have a slip yoke on the 242/231 and a slip on the Eagle driveshaft. You can't have both.
Quote from: Baskinator on September 21, 2014, 02:25:04 AM
Couple questions,
1. What did you do for the shifter and driveshafts?
2. What gear ratio were you both running? I don't think the overdrive would work very well with my 2.35 gears
I'm going column shift but the Eagle one could be modded or use one from an XJ. On SOTE the Eagle front shaft worked after swapping the tcase yoke to match.
I swapped to 3.08 for the 727 I put in and that should work well with the 235/75/15s on the wagon (Brown Betty) when I switch it. I just got a '93 Grand Cherokee for parts (4.0 with 1 year only AW4 and NV242 instead of the usual 42RE/NV249 I dislike) It doesn't have a speedo cable so I need to deal with that. Probably that one will go into my Honcho with the 304.
2.72 would be okay with stock sized tires (I felt it needed an O/D before I did the swap and even with the bigger tires and lift, it needs O/D for freeway driving) If you ran undersized (height that is) tires then an O/D could be run. I had the lockup 998 in my '84 wagon with the Meximotor and cruised the freeway at 70 mph+ no prob with 235/75/15 tires and 2.37 gears.
SOTE ran 3.55 XJ axle in rear and 3.43 Eagle in front. (242 with 4x4 offroad only)
Quote from: eaglefreek on September 21, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Nightpath on September 21, 2014, 03:58:34 PM
Driveshaft in the rear should be fine as is. Front with a 242 I think would have to be lengthened...231 should be fine as is.
Maybe if a SYE is installed. Otherwise you have a slip yoke on the 242/231 and a slip on the Eagle driveshaft. You can't have both.
On SOTE we put the YJ slip yoke on the Eagle shaft and a hose clamp on the slip joint to make it the right length.
Quote from: captspillane on February 01, 2012, 08:20:02 PM
I installed a NP242 into my Red SX4 with this rear driveshaft. I've driven it for several years this way and there are no noticeable vibrations or problems. I found out that the XJ slip yoke is directly compatible with the stock eagle universal joints. It pops right off the junkyard shaft and directly onto the original Eagle driveshaft. You can't drive it this way until you disable the original slip joint, however, or the driveshaft will slide right out the back of the transfer case. I initially used two split PVC pipe halves held on by four hose clamps to figure out how much pipe I needed to add. I then found a piece of old steel handrail that had the perfect inner and outer diameter to slide perfectly and snuggly into place.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0870.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0871.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0873.jpg)
I'm a junkyard dog and try to save money where I can, but there are certain things I choose to do what I think is the right way. The 2wd ZJ driveshaft cost me $20 and it was just under $100 to have it shortened and balanced including new u-joints. But, I do realize there are more than one way to do things.
The driveshafts on the front and rear, barring the length, would be interchangeable correct?
I have the stock XJ ones, as well as a few front and rear driveshafts from the SX/4 to put into play. I can also snag more Eagle driveshafts if required (would rather not though, old rotted cars + climbing underneath isn't fun)
I think for the AW4 + NP231 going in I should be relatively good to go with whats on there now without sawing :censored: apart or adding new parts in. Until I get a NP242 ;)
The NP242/249/247 transfer cases share the same bolt pattern in the center of the case as a 219/119/229/129. The entire front casting has the same dimensions and is basically identical for all of those. You use the short Eagle front yoke to match the Eagle driveshaft. The Jeep front yokes are much longer and use different U bolts, which is a way of making up for longer transmissions too.
The NP231 transfer case only shares the same bolt pattern in the center with the 208 and maybe the 241. It is entirely different than the others I use. I wouldn't use one at all, but if you do you might have a small difference in the position of the yoke and I do not know offhand if the yokes are interchangeable with the Eagle front yoke. They probably are.
The front slip yoke in the Eagle driveshaft is only there to eat up vibrations. If it locks up your front axle bolts will vibrate free in a hurry. The good thing is that the entire travel is about an eighth of an inch, so you have several inches of adjustability built into the stock front driveshaft.
You also have two different lengths you can scrounge around for since T5/SR4 Eagles are about 3" shorter than Automatic Eagles. Likewise the longer rear driveshaft from a stickshift Eagle could probably work as is without a pipe in a slip yoke AW4/242 combination. It is pretty convenient that the length of the pipe I used is about the difference between them. My goal is to never create a custom length driveshaft for any of my conversions and to just make a list of possible front yoke/driveshaft/ and drivetrain combinations that work as is.
This got me to thinking. I'm going to trade the 231 for the 242 transfer case. May as well get it in now and have that AWD availability that came stock on my delicious old purple dinosaur ;)
Just be careful about the spline count! AW4 was 21 spline '87-08/'90 and 23 spline after that. AX-15s are all 23 spline. BA 10/5 is 21 spline. The 4 cyl cases are 21 spline for std and AW4, but 23 spline for 904 (most are 909, which is the lockup version with the slot for crank position sensor)
So it would make more sense to swap to the NP242 over the NP231 since the stock Eagle parts I have that are needed would match up for a correct installation.I already have a swap lined up lol.
So when I do the install of the new engine, transmission and transfer case what should I be aware of? The front driveshaft has to be lengthened (or "shimmed" to keep it from compacting and sliding out) with either NP242/231 correct? The transmission mount has to be slid back and lowered a snort, but the rear driveshaft should be good as is.
I have front and rear SX4 driveshafts (rear driveshaft is from a standard). Would the rear driveshaft (has a slip joint) be able to be used in place of the front driveshaft on the Eagle? If memory serves me right, when I compared the driveshafts I have sitting at home it came out a few inches longer and the ujoints looked the same.
The Eagle front driveshaft is a much smaller diameter than the rear. There isn't much room there especially with the 4.0L exhaust. Honestly, your just going to have to do it and figure it out as you go. Once you get everything into place, you'll see what needs to be done. This won't be a weekend project unless you have mad fab skills.
I don't have mad fab skills but the guy helping me does. Mad, deliciously succulent fab skills. The guy can take a pop can and make it into a friggen snow plow with a disco ball.
I just keep getting anxious for the swap, trying to iron out any potential bugs. It's why I have 80 different posts here on different things lol. :rotfl:
I have a whole recycle bin full of pop cans, can he make me another Eagle? :o
Quote from: Nightpath on September 24, 2014, 12:49:51 PM
The front driveshaft has to be lengthened (or "shimmed" to keep it from compacting and sliding out) with either NP242/231 correct?
Would the rear driveshaft (has a slip joint) be able to be used in place of the front driveshaft on the Eagle? If memory serves me right, when I compared the driveshafts I have sitting at home it came out a few inches longer and the ujoints looked the same.
The rear driveshaft is considerably longer and a much thicker diameter.
The front driveshaft does not have to worry about compacting and sliding out. That is only for the rear driveshaft because two slip joints add up and slide out the back of the transfer case. In the front you have a yoke on either side, not a slip joint.
If you just swapped the stock NP129 for a NP242 you would use the Eagle front yoke and not need any other changes up front. In the rear you would need a 3" spacer. Since you are doing an AW4 swap at the same time the transmission will be 3" longer. Hopefully that eliminates the need for a spacer in the back. I'll be able to tell you for sure in about a week since this is how I'm currently doing my AW4 install. In the front you have an inch or two of adjustment in the slip yoke but it is probably not enough to make up for the longer transmission. I plan on using an XJ front yoke which is an additional inch or two longer than the Eagle one. The added length of those two together should make the front driveshaft work as is. The XJ front yoke has different Ubolts that may provide complication. I think they are meant to go through unthreaded holes and have nuts instead of bolts that thread in.
A Chrysler 8.25 would eliminate any need for a spacer in the rear as well due to it being longer than the stock axle or D35.
I lucked out on my XJ, it has SYE
The XJ front shaft is double cardan and has bolts that come from the tcase side that go into the toke of the double cardan (I can add a pic since my MJ's front shaft is off right now due to the trans change and upcoming front axle swap to 4.10s)