AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Question and Answer => Topic started by: Kinser94 on March 20, 2014, 12:16:56 PM
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My 81 sx4 with a 4.2L is dead, I have power to my dome light and headlights but nothing else, about 2 weeks ago the starter went out, so I replaced on my lunch break at work (I work at autozone). then it started just fine for 2 days then on the third day I started it in the morning and ran an errand came home and about an hour later I went out to start it again and absolutely nothing. I have replaced the starter again, the starting solenoid, my wires to my battery and starter, and my ignition switch, I don't know what else to do, I traced my wires and tested for continuity and they are good, then I checked for voltage out of my starter solenoid and the upper right post which I believe is my ignition wire is only getting 2.8 volts, my battery is 100% charged and everything is tight, so I took a jumper wire for the battery to that post and my dash lights came on (battery, emissions, and seatbelt) but still wont start, any experience or thoughts on this?
I have a Chilton repair manual but it seems to lack the cluster panel wiring diagram, I also swapped the cluster panel out of my 82 station wagon to my 81 sx4, but that was after my sx4 died. I did notice that when I have the jumper wire hooked up to my solenoid and my turn signal lights are on my battery emissions and seatbelt flash as one, I think I hooked something up wrong but all the wire colors matched up, any thoughts on this problem as well??
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Did you check the ignition wire when cranking? It goes through the oil pressure switch and doesn't give voltage until there is oil pressure. However, since you don't have dash lights also, I would suspect possibly a ground issue since your dash lights are blinking with the turn signals with that jumper wire.
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I had a fuseable link that killed all power to the car once.
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I had a fuseable link that killed all power to the car once.
Me, too. :censored:
There are several "hot" wires attached to the fender-mounted starter solenoid battery post in addition to the positive cable from the battery. I suspect your problem is one of those wires, which likely goes through a fusible link and then to whatever it powers up. The fusible link is easily found once you remove the split loom from the harness. It may be discolored or distorted where it burned.
You can purchase fusible link at your friendly local purveyor of parts, or you can cut it out, replace it with standard primary wire and wire in an in-line fuse holder. :eagle:
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Any idea on what they may look like?
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What makes a fusible link obvious is that it"s spliced into the harness. You will have to break into the wiring harness to find it.
On the right or passenger side you should find a harness that's bundled together with split loom. Split loom is stiff plastic and is wrapped around bundles of wires. It's taped at each end and anywhere that a wire comes out of the loom to go to something along the way. It is removed by cutting through the tape and peeling it off from around the bundle. You will see how it's split so you can do just that.
After you make the repair you can put the bundle back into the loom. There may be short pieces branching out from the main harness. When you take it apart don't forget where each piece goes. :eagle:
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I had a similar problem and thought for sure it was my starter.
After replacing several things and lots of frustration turned out to be the ground strap from the engine block to the body was broken.
Another time it turned out to be the positive battery cable, it looked fine on the outside but inside the insulation it was all green and corroded
Electrical stuff can drive you crazy and many times it turns out to be something simple
Good luck and keep us posted
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The ground strap is also on the passenger side in the engine compartment. It runs from the block to the frame and is just behind the alternator.
I should add that to find the fusible link start at the starter solenoid and follow that bunch of wires down to where they go into the bundle. :eagle:
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Also, there is a ground point on the firewall between the brake booster and the engine valve cover. Several black wires are grounded there. Clean the connection.
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You could add another ground wire from the motor to the body too. It's never a bad thing. Sounds like you have 2 things happening. Maybe the NSS isn't working. More likely the fusible link at the battery is bad. The fast and ugly way to "fix" it is to disconnect both battery cables and add a #10 wire from the battery + terminal to the main terminal on the alternator. MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE IT"S NOT WHERE IT CAN MELT OR SHORT! Put the positive cable on first then tap the negative to make sure there isn't a short somewhere. (check the new wire for heating up) Then try starting if it's fine after a minute.
This is an emergency getcha home only fix! Keep checking the wire for heat up. Something caused the fusible link to blow. It may have been just corrosion inside the wire.
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I cut all of the electrical tape covering the harness inside the engine compartment and couldn't find and split loom but I also noticed that I'm only getting 3 volts directly from the upper right post of my starter solenoid i don't know if that is too low or what
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The small post? If the battery is at 12.6, then yes it's too low. It should be 8 (not running)-10 (running) volts
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Ok, so should I replace my battery cable then? Or what would cause it to be that low?
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Which one are you calling the upper right post? I don't have my eagle at work and can't remember how it mounts on the fire wall. Here is a pic I found on the net, which on are you measuring the 3v?
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/spf150/Eagle/11262012003.jpg)
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You have two in the pic. The Eagle uses the bottom style. One contact is labelled S which is for start. Power to it makes the contact inside engage from one big cable terminal to the other. The other is labelled I for ignition and it has resistored power when the key is on (8-10 volts). When you apply power to the S terminal, the contact that engages both big cable terminals also touches the I terminal, giving full power from the battery to the ignition coil while cranking.
That is because the voltage through the system and resistor drops and it needs to boost for the coil to fire while cranking. If that contact wears off (I terminal) then your voltage doesn't pop up, which can make it harder to start, or not at all.
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The post with he red and yellow wires coming off it, is the one I'm referring to
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The post with he red and yellow wires coming off it, is the one I'm referring to
That should be the "I" terminal and with the key in the off or run position, there should be no voltage. When in the start position(turning all the way to power starter), it should have 12+v coming out. Check to see if there is an "I"on the solenoid next to the post. Sometimes the aftermarket ones are reversed. The other one is the "S" terminal and should only get 12v fed to it when the key is turned to the start position.
The "I" terminal feeds full battery voltage to the coil for easier starting and then when the key goes into the run position, lower voltage is then fed to the coil through the oil pressure sensor and then through a resistor wire.
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The "I" terminal doesn't have power of it's own but the wire to it has ignition power when the key is on.
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I is the lower solenoid in the picture that I have and the little post to the left in hat picture is the one I was talking about, I have added 3 grounds now and replaced the neutral safety switch gone through all the engine siring harness and have tested and traced every wire and they are all good, except I did try taking a jumper wire from the battery and pu it to the positive terminal on the ignition coil and when I did that my dash lights came on but everything keeps pointing to the starter solenoid being bad even though it is brand new and has been replaced for a 4th time now because it isn't getting enough volts to the ignition terminal on it, but if someone could post a picture of what the fusible link would look like that would be helpful, I have tested everything that even remotely looks like a fusible link and they are all good
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ProTip :
A battery can still show proper voltage and be bad. They have cells in them, if one blows open then the battery becomes unserviceable. It can show proper voltage all day long, but the current needed isn't there.
Car lights come on, it'll show strong voltage...you're scratching your head thinking wtf is wrong? What gremlin took a deuce in my electrical?
Before wishing for a unicorn horn to touch and heal it, go snag another battery and pop it in. Dollars to donuts that this will solve it.
Happened to me twice, and a friend just 2 weeks ago in his new Nissan pickup. He argued with me right up until we got to Canadian Tire and have the battery tested. Said there should be a bulge, or acid coming out of the top, or some sign. Nope, battery looked new.
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Thanks for that advice, but the battery is the first thing I tested because I work at autozone I know the basics to check an I put on new cables, tested my neutral safety switch using the instructions in my chilton repair manual, we finally go it to turn over this morning by jumping the 2 big posts on the solenoid and two screwdrivers but we also noticed, that's coil isn't sparking, I tested it with ohms and it was within specs. I don't remember if I already mentioned this but I added 2 new grounds and still nothing
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Did you test to make sure you have voltage at the coil while cranking and/or with the key in the run position?
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Well I finally figured it out , one was a blown fusible link and the other was my neutral safety switch went out as well just thought you guys would like to know. I fired her up last night and tomorrow I'll finish swapping the front axle and transfer case