Ok so I have been hitting my head on this for some time :banghead:. About two months ago I go driving up guardsmen's pass here in Utah to help pull a friends Firebird out of ditch. Long story short I let my friend get behind the wheel when I went to go check the slack in the tow cables and for some reason he thought it would be a brilliant idea to floor the gas and move the shifter from P in to D consequently destroying the case and along with filling the torque convert up with metal shavings and destroying a few of the one way gears. Wait it gets better I had just had this transmission professionally rebuilt with a lifetime warranty for about 1600$ which is now null and void since the damage was self inflicted. So now here I am almost 3 months latter unable to find a replacement case for my 904
At this point I will take any thing I am looking for another 904 that I can just swap in until I have the money to have it rebuilt as well or if any one has a spare 904 case laying around. Also does any one know if their are any direct transmission swaps for the 258 that do no require any kind of adapter plate or modifications. I have read around the web that a 727 bolts up the same and is the same dimensions and length as the 904 is this true ?
Perhaps my opinions should be kept to myself, but this one defies intelligent :censored: explanation. With friends like this who needs enemies ???
The only caveat to using a 727 is that its bell housing must be for an AMC engine. Someone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking it doesn't matter if it's from a V8 or a six. If your 904 is a lockup you may have problems finding a similarly-equipped 727. Additionally, Eagles were originally equipped with a 998 transmission...a 727 case with 904 internals. Has someone changed out the transmission?
Your replacement transmission must also accept the transfer case. If it has a tail shaft you will need to do some work on it before it goes in. Perhaps the output end of your existing transmission can provide you with the necessary parts and you can save some coin.
Good luck, and please keep us posted.
Well it would have to be a 998 its non lock up with the starter in the 7 o clock position for some reason my transmission shop has had my car for 3 months trying to find a case for it and they keep telling me its a 904 :S this just opens another whole can of worms. So what years Jeep wize can I go pull a 727 from is it only the grand wagoners and the Cherokees with the v8 or do all the Cherokees have the 727 do the 727 not have a the 4wd transfercase on them already or will I have to bolt up the one from my old trany?
Ok I just found a 727 from a 84 v8 jeep grand wagoneer is this a straight bolt up except for the dips stick for the AMC 258 ?
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 11, 2012, 12:53:06 PM
until I have the money to have it rebuilt
I hope you mean, until your so-called "friend" coughs up the cash to have it rebuilt. He should cover every last dime of this.
I believe the 727 out of the Grand Wagoneer will bolt up, but I'd like to hear it from others on the forum as I'd hate to see you spend the money only to find I'm wrong.
The transfer case you use now requires a decision.
The Wagoneers had a two-speed transfer case with either an open differential or "conventional" 4-wheel-drive, while the original Eagle transfer case was a single-speed. The vacuum actuator from the Wagoneer that engages 4-wheel-drive should be usable in an Eagle. You will need to fabricate some sort of linkage so you can shift between low- and high-speed. Your existing drive shafts should be OK as they are. Depending on the transfer case that's behind the Wagoneer transmission you may lose full-time 4-wheel-drive, meaning on dry pavement you have to shift out of 4-wheel drive.
I believe the single-speed original Eagle transfer case will bolt to the 727. Eagles built in or before 1985 have a viscous coupling in the transfer case that allows full-time 4-wheel-drive.
Now for the decision...
OK now we are cookin with gas here
"I hope you mean, until your so-called "friend" coughs up the cash to have it rebuilt. He should cover every last dime of this" seeing as how I just got this person a job he is going to defiantly be paying for any cost I incur during this repair I just need a pile of receipts to throw at him first haha.
Now as for the Decision
I pretty positive it is only the eagles from 80 to 84 that had the full time AWD with out the select drive so would I be able to take the T case and tail from my 998 and put it on the bell housing for the 727 ?
? I need some feed back on this asap I need a car to get to work and need to get this fixed soon I have been driving a expired registered car for the last three months.
I'm going on my experience with an '83 full-size Cherokee...which is about the same minus a few features as the '84 Grand Wagoneer. It had vacuum-shift 2- and 4-wheel select drive. There was a switch on the left side of the dash below the wiper and headlight switches. I'm assuming the 727 transmission you're getting is similarly equipped.
It's my understanding a 727 that originally was behind an AMC V8 will bolt up to the back of a 258 six. If you want to keep your single-speed transfer case it should bolt on to the back of the 727.
My '84 Eagle has select drive...stop-to-shift...a 998 lockup-converter transmission and 129 transfer case...full-time 4-wheel-drive if wanted with a viscous coupler. If you get a 229 transfer case with the 727 you will get the same feature with the addition of low range. There should be an identification tag riveted to the rear half of the transfer case.
Again, if someone on the forum has different information I would appreciate it if that person posts up. :eagle:
You have a 998 which is a basically a 904. A jeep 998 or 999 from a Jeep CJ or YJ with a 258 or 4.0L will bolt right in. Should be very easy to find one.
Use car-part.com to help with your search. I was amazed that there aren't any listed in Utah.
"You have a 998 which is a basically a 904. A jeep 998 or 999"
Perfect that works but what about the 727 from the wagoner will that be a straight bolt in and I can still use the 2x4 and 4x4 select drive I just wont have access to the low range in the 229 or am I stuck in 4x4 all the time ? if not can I take the 128 from the eagle 904/998 and put it on the 727 case with the eagle tail housing ? or would it be best just to use the 727 if its indeed a direct bolt in minus having to adjust the filler tube. I am going to pull it tomorrow if I can but I want to make sure I am getting the correct part before I go running off to pick and pull at 8 AM in my buddy's cargo van
As far as I know it's a straight bolt up. Others will argue, but the 727 sucks more power than the 998 and has a higher first gear ratio, which means you will notice it being slower and taking more throttle to take off from a stop. The 229 requires some mods to work in an Eagle but many have done it, including me. The 128 will bolt up to the 727. Tear A Part in Salt Lake lists an 81 Eagle in their inventory but if it is a 6 with an auto, it will most likely be a lock up transmission. If the transmission is still there. If you install the trans and torque converter from the 81 you would be fine, if the transmission is in working order. I plan on removing my good condition 998 and installing an AW4 from a Cherokee, but don't know when I can get to it. It might be a couple months.
Here are a couple threads about my 229 adventure.
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=35890.0
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=35761.0
Thank you so much eagle freek you tha man. I have already gone to the tear apart off in magna its a 2 dour coupe eagle they have their I started pulling it then realized that its going to be lock up but if thats the case yo are suggesting I can just take the case from that transmission and put my TC and tail housing on the 81 bell housing right ?
Also I have already put the howell TBI FI on my eagle along with having purchased a 258/4.0 conversion head from clearwater on ebay. that will be install after I get the tranny in. that being said does that extra 15 or so HP that the 727 takes to run make that much of a difference even with all the mods I have done ? wont it give me more climbing and towing capability ? if not ill keep looking for a core for my 998
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 12, 2012, 10:58:23 AM
Thank you so much eagle freek you tha man. I have already gone to the tear apart off in magna its a 2 dour coupe eagle they have their I started pulling it then realized that its going to be lock up but if thats the case yo are suggesting I can just take the case from that transmission and put my TC and tail housing on the 81 bell housing right ?
Bellhousing is integrated with the transmission. Just leave the tail housing on the transmission, I don't think they will charge you extra for it. Yes your transfer case will bolt up.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 12, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
Also I have already put the howell TBI FI on my eagle along with having purchased a 258/4.0 conversion head from clearwater on ebay. that will be install after I get the tranny in. that being said does that extra 15 or so HP that the 727 takes to run make that much of a difference even with all the mods I have done ? wont it give me more climbing and towing capability ? if not ill keep looking for a core for my 998
I'm just going by what others who have swapped in a 727 have told me. However, some have said they didn't notice a difference when they switched to a 727. The internals are physically larger and heavy and require more HP to turn and combined with the higher first gear ratio, I honestly don't see how a difference can't be felt. The 998 with a trans cooler will do just fine pulling whatever the Eagle's body and suspension can handle. As long as some moron doesn't slam it into drive from a dead stop and revving the engine.
alright well then in that case I have just found a 904 from a 83 CJ with the wheel drive TC is that also a direct bolt up or not ?
I feel im getting close to a decision here :o
ill have to show you pictures of the old case and sprag that where completely shattered when I go back to the shop later today its amazing that some one with their license would do such a thing especially after telling him while driving up the mounting what I had just had done to the tranny and how much I love this car yada yada yada
Here's a quote from this website on how to tell if it is a lockup or non lockup trans. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/auto/20.html
"With the trans out, and converter off the input shaft, a lock-up will have a smooth area on the end of the input shaft (no splines) for about 3/4", then the splines begin. Also, there will be a thru hole in the end of the input shaft lengthwise. The non-lock-up will have splines to the end of the input shaft and no thru hole. If the trans is in the car, pull the pan, and the valvebody. If it has a "S" shaped hollow tube on the top of the valvebody, it is a lock-up. "
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 12, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
Also I have already put the howell TBI FI on my eagle along with having purchased a 258/4.0 conversion head from clearwater on ebay. that will be install after I get the tranny in. that being said does that extra 15 or so HP that the 727 takes to run make that much of a difference even with all the mods I have done ? wont it give me more climbing and towing capability ? if not ill keep looking for a core for my 998
Once you have a lockup you will wonder how you got along without it. It results in better fuel mileage and less heat rejection into the cooling system. In my mind installing a lockup will be an upgrade. :eagle:
Quote from: eaglebeek on December 12, 2012, 06:15:03 PM
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 12, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
Also I have already put the howell TBI FI on my eagle along with having purchased a 258/4.0 conversion head from clearwater on ebay. that will be install after I get the tranny in. that being said does that extra 15 or so HP that the 727 takes to run make that much of a difference even with all the mods I have done ? wont it give me more climbing and towing capability ? if not ill keep looking for a core for my 998
Once you have a lockup you will wonder how you got along without it. It results in better fuel mileage and less heat rejection into the cooling system. In my mind installing a lockup will be an upgrade. :eagle:
maybe if you drive with atennis ball under mr. lead. otherwise it is an inferior tc that is prone to breaking.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 11, 2012, 12:53:06 PM
Ok so I have been hitting my head on this for some time :banghead:. About two months ago I go driving up guardsmen's pass here in Utah to help pull a friends Firebird out of ditch. Long story short I let my friend get behind the wheel when I went to go check the slack in the tow cables and for some reason he thought it would be a brilliant idea to floor the gas and move the shifter from P in to D consequently destroying the case and along with filling the torque convert up with metal shavings and destroying a few of the one way gears. Wait it gets better I had just had this transmission professionally rebuilt with a lifetime warranty for about 1600$ which is now null and void since the damage was self inflicted. So now here I am almost 3 months latter unable to find a replacement case for my 904
At this point I will take any thing I am looking for another 904 that I can just swap in until I have the money to have it rebuilt as well or if any one has a spare 904 case laying around. Also does any one know if their are any direct transmission swaps for the 258 that do no require any kind of adapter plate or modifications. I have read around the web that a 727 bolts up the same and is the same dimensions and length as the 904 is this true ?
727 from a Grand Wagoneer (or any '80 or newer FSJ with driver's side front driveshaft) does bolt directly in with a few caveats. Flexplate needs to have the dual bolt pattern. Linkage from the 998 needs to be swapped to the 727.
Quote from: mudkicker715 on December 12, 2012, 06:21:10 PM
maybe if you drive with a tennis ball under mr. lead. otherwise it is an inferior tc that is prone to breaking.
Not so much a problem with a 727 setup. The neck of ALL 9XX converters is the weak point.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 12, 2012, 12:35:10 PM
alright well then in that case I have just found a 904 from a 83 CJ with the wheel drive TC is that also a direct bolt up or not ?
I feel im getting close to a decision here :o
Only if it's from a 4.2L with 23 spline output (same as yours for length too)
Quote from: eaglebeek on December 11, 2012, 02:50:44 PM
I believe the 727 out of the Grand Wagoneer will bolt up, but I'd like to hear it from others on the forum as I'd hate to see you spend the money only to find I'm wrong.
The transfer case you use now requires a decision.
The Wagoneers had a two-speed transfer case with either an open differential or "conventional" 4-wheel-drive, while the original Eagle transfer case was a single-speed. The vacuum actuator from the Wagoneer that engages 4-wheel-drive should be usable in an Eagle. You will need to fabricate some sort of linkage so you can shift between low- and high-speed. Your existing drive shafts should be OK as they are. Depending on the transfer case that's behind the Wagoneer transmission you may lose full-time 4-wheel-drive, meaning on dry pavement you have to shift out of 4-wheel drive.
I believe the single-speed original Eagle transfer case will bolt to the 727. Eagles built in or before 1985 have a viscous coupling in the transfer case that allows full-time 4-wheel-drive.
Now for the decision...
You also need to swap the front yoke from the NP1XX in the Eagle to the FSJ NP2XX case (unless it's an NP208, which is 5 inches shorter, so you'd also need a longer rear driveshaft) AND switch the NP1XX tailcone to the NP2XX so your speedometer works.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 11, 2012, 03:35:34 PM
OK now we are cookin with gas here
"I hope you mean, until your so-called "friend" coughs up the cash to have it rebuilt. He should cover every last dime of this" seeing as how I just got this person a job he is going to defiantly be paying for any cost I incur during this repair I just need a pile of receipts to throw at him first haha.
Now as for the Decision
I pretty positive it is only the eagles from 80 to 84 that had the full time AWD with out the select drive so would I be able to take the T case and tail from my 998 and put it on the bell housing for the 727 ?
? I need some feed back on this asap I need a car to get to work and need to get this fixed soon I have been driving a expired registered car for the last three months.
'80/81 Eagles had NP119 (aka New Process Quadratrac, not to be confused with '73 to '79 Jeep Borg Warner 1339 Quadratrac. Only the name is the same) full time 4x4. Late '81 to end of production had NP129 with NP128s (same thing as NP129, but no viscous coupler) around '86. The vacuum front axle with the NP129 (aka stop and shift) went away mid '85 and they went back to non-vac front axles for shift on the fly.
Almost nothing internally on the 9XX will fit the 727 (trans filter is the only thing I can think of) If you unbolt the trans from the tcase at the round patterned joint, the Eagle tcase bolts up to the 727 (but the FSJ low range is a very nice addition for pulling stuff by doubling your power to the wheels)
Someone on here emailed me about the '99 Wrangler 999 bare trans case I have for sale (they have a bolt in rear sprague clutch for strength after '91) which has the hole for a crank position sensor.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 11, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
Ok I just found a 727 from a 84 v8 jeep grand wagoneer is this a straight bolt up except for the dips stick for the AMC 258 ?
If you can find the trans stick from a 6 cyl '80 up Jeep with 727, it's easiest. I re-bent the 9XX one and it weeps now and then which is annoying.
Quote from: Coltonoo on December 11, 2012, 11:21:09 PM
"You have a 998 which is a basically a 904. A jeep 998 or 999"
Perfect that works but what about the 727 from the wagoner will that be a straight bolt in and I can still use the 2x4 and 4x4 select drive I just wont have access to the low range in the 229 or am I stuck in 4x4 all the time ? if not can I take the 128 from the eagle 904/998 and put it on the 727 case with the eagle tail housing ? or would it be best just to use the 727 if its indeed a direct bolt in minus having to adjust the filler tube. I am going to pull it tomorrow if I can but I want to make sure I am getting the correct part before I go running off to pick and pull at 8 AM in my buddy's cargo van
The difference between a 904/909 and 998/999 is this: The rear band is wider inside for strength. (909 is the lockup 904 used with the 4 cyl and V6 in XJs)
Quote from: eaglefreek on December 12, 2012, 12:12:45 PM
I'm just going by what others who have swapped in a 727 have told me. However, some have said they didn't notice a difference when they switched to a 727. The internals are physically larger and heavy and require more HP to turn and combined with the higher first gear ratio, I honestly don't see how a difference can't be felt. The 998 with a trans cooler will do just fine pulling whatever the Eagle's body and suspension can handle. As long as some moron doesn't slam it into drive from a dead stop and revving the engine.
Mine is a little slower on takeoff, but I'm curing that with 3.08 gears instead of the current 2.72s but I'll lose some again when I switch to 235/75R15 tires. I'll actually be equal to 2.89 ratio with stock tires so I'll still gain a little takeoff power.