Just remembering why I was originally shopping for an Eagle with a failed automatic transmission so I had every reason to swap in a 5 speed. Problem is it turns out this "failed" transmission has been rebuilt and works great if you can keep fluid in it.
This thing is worse than any Chevy or Ford AT I've ever had to deal with. I've even got a Chrysler 727 that I could seal up. I did the hammer and dolly thing to repair the bolt hole dimples and installed new gaskets which always worked on other makes.
Has anyone been able to get an AT pan gasket to really seal on one of these? Is there an an aftermarket pan with enough structure to apply even pressure to the whole gasket and doesn't cost as much as the manual trans swap?
I don't run double gaskets in my A998. I use a single standard gasket you get with any filter kit from NAPA or Baxter and it seats correctly. I think I may still be using the pan gasket from the last rebuild so I probably still have the spare somewhere. Either way, I've never had a problem. I'm using the stock pan too. Are you using an aftermarket(shiny with pan plug)?
I went through a lot of trannys for awhile. none of them leaked from the pan.
if you over tighten them they will leak.
Well I'm glad some of you have had success because I have had none and believe me I have tried them all including the double gasket. Don't leak bad but never the less it still drips. Got a pan under both eagles until I come up with a plan but at this point I have none.
I believe a double gasket would be worse. do you extra garbidge to help "seal" it. i hate that crap and never use it
Maybe try some Permatex Right Stuff.
Yep I also tried the right stuff both with a gasket and without. Thought I had it only to find out three weeks later the dreaded drip was back. At this point I am out of ideas but never the less quite fustrated to say the least. Ya know over my life time I have changed trans fluid and gaskets more times then I can count but these two eagles take the cake. I have not given up just out of ideas for the moment.I even went so far to put a bead of the right stuff on one pan and place it on a glass table with a weight and got under the table to check the seal. Wife bout had a fit although. Anyway it looked good so I cleaned it then reapplied the right stuff and installed it. Bolts finger tight plus a half turn. Held for about ten days then the dreaded drip was back. Eagle never left the garage. Any ideas? I'm listening. PS, Not wanting to hijack the original post just have the same problem and am looking for answers also. Thanks!
It takes time but run a tap through all the bolt holes to ensure they are clean and use a dab of blue thread lock. Trans pan bolts are small and under low torque so they tend to loosen. This has worked well for me... before my car turned manual.
Thanks for the tip. The next time I pull the pan again,probably after Thanksgiving I will try a little blue thread locker. I did run a tap on all the holes and I could thread it all the way in with my fingers. Wish I could find another cork gasket instead of those rubber ones although. I think with a cork gasket and the right stuff I will have a better chance of success. I know if I get one to work it should also work on the other eagle. Probably should not be so upset cause both of them were dripping when I got them and both of these eagles have only thirty thousand miles on them. But one would think after doing this five or six times something would work. But I won't give up. One thing for sure I got the cleanest trans fluid around and auto zone loves me!
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?
What do you mean, do I have the ability to read inch pounds. I have a toque wrench that reads in inch pounds and I believe I know how to read. So I should be all set right? And now no thread locker or the right stuff either. Does being confusied count?
Quote from: mudkicker715 on November 20, 2012, 06:12:43 PM
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?
150 inch-pounds = 12.5 foot-pounds :eagle:
Wow, struck a nerve. Those of you that have no leaks or even small enough ones that don't make a mess overnight, count yourselves lucky.
I think what happened to mine is the factory pan seal surface was worked too many times. The car has 168K miles on it and was very well taken care of, no rust underneath, good body panels, welded exhaust, etc. I would not be surprised if the original owner put 167K miles on it and changed fluid/filter in the trans on the regular maintenance schedule, then finally rebuilt the engine and trans and sold it to the kid I bought it from. The kid said he put about 1000 miles on it and then the trans just quit, didn't start slipping or hanging on shifts, just suddenly quit.
He was adamant that it wasn't the transfer case, but when I went to look at it the t-case vacuum lines were a mess and the t-case lever seemed to be centered. I was able to move it into both 2wd and 4wd and could hear vacuum sucking as I moved it. The car would not move at the time of course because the trans was all but empty when I pulled the pan (no metal shavings though). Found out later when I had it home, that after the trans quit, the kid's stepdad had taken it to a "mechanic" friend of his who apparently proceeded to take a bunch of stuff apart and odd things were missing like the trans dipstick ( I thought the kid was the culprit). My bet is either the frequent fluid changes weakened the pan or the friend torqued the fire out of it.
By the way, the double gasket trick didn't cut it either. It held for the first day after adding fluid, then puddled by the second, almost as bad as the single gasket and has been consistent every day after. Hadn't even gotten it out of the garage so its not bolts backing out. Rubber gasket, not cork, and not the 94-ish Cherokee gasket by FelPro someone here had mentioned. Just venting but, Advance Auto parts, which is based here in Roanoke, VA didn't even list the FelPro gasket. I was going to try NAPA next.
Anyway I'm looking to replace the pan, because apparently I couldn't straighten it or its been weakened by by being worked too often, like bending a paper clip until it breaks. If I do have to replace the pan, I don't want another thin steel one, but those structural ones sure are pricey. My hope when I found out this trans was rebuilt, was to get through this winter with the automatic and take my time swapping to the 5 speed before next winter, but this leak is too bad to try that yet.
Sorry to ramble, but I wanted to answer as many of the questions you might have for me as I could.
Quote from: mudkicker715 on November 20, 2012, 06:12:43 PM
I just looked at my tsm from 79. 150 inch pounds. and use no garbildy gook. the thread locker is a sin as when and if itvhas to be rekovedagain it will have to be heated to 500 f. do you actually have the ability to read inch pounds?
Not trying to be an a** or anything like that but as per Permatex the blue is for serviceable applications, is removable with hand tools and prevents vibration loosening. Much like factory thread locked applications.
http://www.permatex.com/products/product-categories/thread-compounds/threadlockers/permatex--surface-insensitive-threadlocker-blue-detail
Quote from: eagleman on November 20, 2012, 08:24:57 PM
What do you mean, do I have the ability to read inch pounds. I have a toque wrench that reads in inch pounds and I believe I know how to read. So I should be all set right? And now no thread locker or the right stuff either. Does being confusied count?
you don't have to be offended so easily. no point was being made to make you feel insuperior.
are you certain its the pan notthe shifter or the dipstick. than running down to the pan looking like a pan gasket leak.
No offence taken, Its just this trans leak is really becoming a sore spot with me and at times I even have doubts on my ability even though I have been turning wrenches for forty five years. Thirty of those was to make a living. I have checked the trans for other possible leaks and have found none so I am totally convinced its leaking from the pan. I have read on here about a aftermarket heavier pan and was wondering where I might find one. Also thought about taking the pan down to our local machine shop and see if they can make me a reinforcing ring that fits around the out side of the pan so as the pan does not distort when tighting the bolts. At this point I'm game for about anything.
I thought about putting a reinforcing ring on the factory pan too.
Today I looked under a Jeep Cherokee in my office parking lot to see its pan. It does appear to be exactly the same bolt pattern, but I was hoping it would have a factory reinforcement ring or be a structural piece. It didn't, but it wasn't leaking either. Not that it would affect the gasket seal, but it did have a deeper sump than these.
I just don't want to put a flimsy steel flange pan back on my Eagle. Next I think I'll check the Jeep marketer's for a pan.
summit racing offers some after market pans for our transmissions that should work well but i will add they are kind of pricey.
Ya know I have looked and studied this pan for a rather long time now and I believe that once installed and refilled with the proper amount of fluid that the fluid level is sitting above the gasket line so when sitting for a period of time its just a matter of time before the fluid either soaks it way through or finds the path of least resistance and then leaks. Might explain why for the first couple of days or weeks before it starts the dreaded drip again. In all of my cases the eagles have never left the garage just sat there with there bellies full of trans fluid,Something to think about anyway. But its just a hunch and I may be grasping at straws. Never the less I would be really interested in finding a deeper pan thats made with heavier material. I know there pricy but trans fluid ain't cheap either and if I eliminate the mess on my garage floor I figure it would be worth it. I did stop at our local machine shop today and he said to bring him my trans pan and he felt sure he could make me a reinforcement ring either out of aluminum or steel. So after Thanksgiving I will pursue this futher also. Hey wishing you all a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving!!
Get a '93 up Grand Cherokee 42RE (6 cyl) silicone permanent gasket and be done with it. My 727 pan doesn't leak, but the oring on the tube does (I think the tube and stick are wrong)
Where did you find this gasket. I am having no luck.
PM sent
I got a TCI aluminum trans pan from Summit ($150). I'm really impressed with the quality of it. I would prefer to have gotten a standard depth pan, but the only thing available was the increased depth for 2 extra quarts capacity. The extra depth required taking the trans mount loose and jacking up the tailshaft to get it past the exhaust crossover pipe, but that gave enough clearance.
It came with a new filter, oil pickup extension, new pan gasket (not rubber), and new stainless steel allen head bolts. You really need the allen head bolts as a traditional hex head would not fit. The bolts are all the same length and while they are probably not too long for the blind holes, I felt better using a couple extra washers to be sure they weren't bottoming out. I also ran a tap through all of the holes.
So far overnight not a single drop leaking out, but I'm going to leave it in the garage to watch it for a few more days. If this stops the leak, then it is definitely worth it.
After a few days the leak has shown itself again. I have not moved the Eagle out of the garage or even started the engine. The TCI pan was a good bet, but apparently not the complete answer. The left, right, and rear of the transmission appear to be sealed, but the front still leaks right in the center. However, the rate of the leak appears to be only reduced by half.
Has anyone else narrowed the source of their leak to the transmission case parting line?
Is this a common leak point?
Only had a leak at that point on one after the car sat for a few days. it was as if the torque convertor unloaded enough to find that place to dump out.
This is right at the vertical casting parting line where it is machined for the transmission gasket surface. It's as if the joint is porous or has developed a crack.
There is a blind bolt hole on either side. I checked the new bolts and they are not bottoming out in the holes, so it is not a clamping problem with the gasket.
I was really hoping the structural pan would take care of this. Just reinforces my hatred of automatics.
This problem is fast becoming the only thing I have left to fix before I can drive it.
Think I may have finally fixed it. Fingers crossed! I took my original pan and placed it on a flat surface. Found that I could rock it side to side. Not a lot but never the less it rocked. So I took the pan and ran two rather heavy beads of the right stuff around the entire mounting surface and around all holes. I then took two pieces of wax paper and layed them on a flat surface and placed the pan mounting side down on top of the wax paper and placed a small brick on top of the pan.Waited about thirty minutes then took a round tooth pick and traced around the pan and all the holes and walked away. I let it sit for two days then went and removed the pan. What I ended up with was a perfectly formed gasket. I placed the pan back on the flat surface and no more rock and found the gasket was thicker on one side then the other so I felt confident that the pan was now flat. Took the pan and ran another bead around the surface and holes,took all the bolts and put a drop of blue thread sealer on them and installed the pan. Snugged all bolts then a quarter turn more in the proper order and got out from under the car.Refilled trans and fired that mother up.Went through all gears several times even engaged the four wheel drive several times. Let eagle run for a while both in neutral and in gear. Car is on jack stands. Rechecked level and added some then looked for that dreaded drip. Found none and now four weeks later still none! D--- I love this car
Good news. An airplane mechanic told me they use Right Stuff on a lot of things and he uses it instead of gaskets on his car when possible.
Right Stuff sounds like it might be the solution for the pan, great idea touse the wax paper and flat surface.
With mine I got the structural pan from TCI which has a thick, rigid, and machined flat surface, but it still did not seal. The TCI pan came with a good dense cardboard gasket, new stainless bolts and tightened up great and it still leaked. I went ahead and tried the rubber gasket and it did work better, but it still leaked. I would try the Great Stuff trick next, but it appears I now have a bigger problem.
In all the attempts to seal the transmission pan, I have left the car in the garage on the smooth concrete so I could get at it easily until I got it sealed. Today after cleaning up the drippings yet again, I got in and started it up (I had finally got the throttle cable and AT kickdown fixed). I ran the engine for about 30 seconds, shifting between Drive and Reverse a couple times, getting that satisfying bump that it was positively going into each gear and then shut it down. I looked back under the car an ATF is pouring out from the bell housing so the trans will have to come out now anyway.
Really hate automatics. Anybody know where I can get all the pieces to convert it to a manual?
Where are you?
Hi Carnuck, I'm on the other side of the country in Fincastle, Virginia near Roanoke.
Definitely not looking forward to pulling this trans out, I was really hoping it could use the existing one for at least the first winter to give me time to find the five speed and all the conversion parts.
I've got a friend that kills cars for a living so I give him a parts list and he'll let me know if he gets anything in that I wanted. He can help with longer term needs, but it usually takes a while. Unfortunately now I will need to get the parts sooner than later.
Do you know of any parts for this conversion available?