Hey everyone:
I'm having starting issues on my '84 Eagle, and don't want to clutter up my project thread with basic repairs anymore than I already have. Also, didn't know what category starters fall under............tranny's maybe? Anyway, the symptoms are clicking from the solenoid, and no crank. After replacing the solenoid, and making a ground wire to rule out the NSS, I pulled the starter. I found two small bits of metal inside, that I believe are just part of the starter case opening, near the gear drive. I think that can just be smoothed up with a dremel. From what I could see, the gear drive nor the flywheel have any missing teeth or damage. I tried to "bench test" it with jumper cables, but must have done it wrong. I picked up a used starter from a '84 Bronco with an I6, which I thought I saw somewhere in searching would work, but it's a different size. I tested it with the jumpers in the same way, to no avail, but it did work when it was bench tested at Napa. Maybe what I saw was that the brushes are the same for both starters? I'll post pics tomorrow, if needed. Thanks for any help!
You should be able to get the right starter numerous places, but if not let me know, I got an extra when I picked up the SX4, I must have brought back an extra half car... It might cost more than it's worth for shipping though.
Doc
AMC Motorcraft starters are still readily available.
The Ford starter isn't the same as the AMC one although they look alike. The AMC drive gear is longer and so is the nose. Bolt pattern and offset are different too.
Got a reman to put in tomorrow. The old one had a couple of broken bits of metal that looked just like a stop ring for the drive. Clean flywheel and teeth.....................will probably have it running soon!
Good to hear the ring gear was OK
Alright then............I'm not sure what the problem is. ???
I replaced the solenoid and starter, bypassed the NSS ground to solenoid, and cleaned/tightened the ground to block. Even turned over the engine manually from the crankshaft pulley with just a combo wrench. It seemed to turn over pretty easily, and I had hoped that if the ring gear did have missing teeth that I just couldn't see, manually turning over the engine may let the teeth mesh up again. Nope..............all I'm getting is clicking from the solenoid. Am I missing something basic?
How is the battery and it's connections? I forget, was the new starter bench tested before you got it?
Quote from: IowaEagle on March 18, 2012, 04:39:51 PM
How is the battery and it's connections? I forget, was the new starter bench tested before you got it?
The battery was charged up to 13V+, both terminals clean, ground to block cleaned/tightened, positive cable too since I replaced the solenoid. My wife picked up the starter, and didn't bench test it....................I considered that being the problem too, as I've had several probs with reman starters in the past. The power cable to the starter was only wiped off, and I haven't found or cleaned the block to body ground yet.
Maybe not so basic starter Q's now.
New solenoid: has had frequent changes between the NSS and ground to battery, reads 12.5V, and bypass does nothing.
Reman starter: Should do the trick, but never bench tested. I'd rather NOT have to pull it again, but it's looking like I might have to.
Battery: Holding at 13V, whistle-clean terminals, and jumped by a huge brand new Interstate.
Flywheel: Looked fine when I peeked in there real quick. Also easily turned over with just a wrench on the crankshaft.
Grounds: they're all clean, that I know of. Neg cable to block, and the strap just below it to engine mount. Both of these were only finger tight, and grease galore. :censored: plastic valve cover
So, I'm not sure where to go from here. Test the starter, look for more grounds, starter shims, distributor possibly?
I still think it might be a bad starter. Probably not an issue, but how is the ground from the fire wall to the engine?
I haven't seen that ground yet, maybe I'll pull off the air cover to see better. I'll pull the starter and have my wife bench test it soon too. Back to work tomorrow, so probably another week at least.............. :banghead:
Well, I still haven't found "THE FAMOUS FIREWALL GROUND"!
I've searched quite a bit, and the only info that I could find is that it's near the brake booster, but couldn't find it even with the air filter housing off. Would it be a strap or wire, what's the engine mounting point, and is it accessible from top or bottom?
I'd very much appreciate any insight from you guys. :hello2:
take your jumper cables and connect them to a good battery then clamp - to block and touch + to starter + terminal this will tell you if the starters any good.
Quote from: standup650 on March 26, 2012, 11:25:48 AM
take your jumper cables and connect them to a good battery then clamp - to block and touch + to starter + terminal this will tell you if the starters any good.
Will do........I had tried that with the old starter, but to no avail. Same test should tell me if it is still a bad ground, too. I'll report back.
Thanks, Mernsey, now I know what to look for!
I ran a wire direct from battery to a mounting screw for some canister on the upper pass side. It was a bit small, 12ga, but all I had on hand. After that didn't work, then I ran jumper cables right to the starter. First ground on the chassis nearby, then on a starter mounting bolt. Got sparks, but that was all, so I'm thinking I'll have to pull the starter for a bench test. :censored:
These type of starters can pass bench test, yet fail under load. Get a breaker bar and with the key turned off (very important because I left the key on one time and got a big bruise from the ignition kicking the motor backwards) turn the motor and listen for a clunk from the starter. If you do, then the snapring shattered in the nose and the drive stuck engaged with the contacts open so it can't engage. When you hear the clunk, try the ignition again. It may go. If so, the starter needs to be fixed, but mine did that for 3 months before I got tired of it and pulled it.
Just tried turning the crankshaft again, but no noise from the starter, let alone a clunk. Hopefully this repair isn't a sign of what's to come.........................it's a really nice bird, apart from the interior! All that I can do now, that I know of, is to pull the starter and have it bench tested or replaced if they will. Oh well, doing that will seem minor compared to what I just did..................replaced both front axles in the Subaru. :P
Quote from: BaldEagle on March 26, 2012, 01:30:26 PM
Thanks, Mernsey, now I know what to look for!
I ran a wire direct from battery to a mounting screw for some canister on the upper pass side. It was a bit small, 12ga, but all I had on hand. After that didn't work, then I ran jumper cables right to the starter. First ground on the chassis nearby, then on a starter mounting bolt. Got sparks, but that was all, so I'm thinking I'll have to pull the starter for a bench test. :censored:
all it did was spark no spin? it doesn't need to be out to bench test it, you just did it. the starter grounds threw the casting so if you grounded to a mount bolt then thats right. the second you touch the + cable to the + lead on the starter, it should have tried to start. sounds like a bad one. your not near nh are you? if you were id take trip
Quote from: standup650 on March 26, 2012, 07:25:07 PM
all it did was spark no spin? it doesn't need to be out to bench test it, you just did it. the starter grounds threw the casting so if you grounded to a mount bolt then thats right. the second you touch the + cable to the + lead on the starter, it should have tried to start. sounds like a bad one. your not near nh are you? if you were id take trip
I'm in Oregon, but thanks for the offer!
Got it pulled today, so I'll have a replacement in the next day or two.
That HAS to be it....................everything else is done. ;D
Good luck man! My fingers are crossed for you.
As long as the motor was turnable it should be the only problem. Did you try battery cables to the starter on the ground? Sadly I have at least 3 of those starters kicking around I'll probably never use. The AX-15 bell won't align with that style starter, so I'll have the new and used one for the Honcho and the 998 is coming out of the Spirit (just before the converter goes south altogether) to be replaced with an AW4/NP242 from my buddy's XJ.
I did try battery cables direct to the starter, but with no effect in the least. I have a "new" starter now, and both did bench test just fine. I'm starting to wonder if the battery provided isn't large enough. It charges up to 13V+ just fine, but is so small, maybe it doesn't have the cranking amps needed? I did also try jumping with a running Bronco, (truck, not equine) :rotfl: but that didn't work. My cables are good, heavy gauge ones, but quite old and have rusty clamps. I think at this point if the new starter doesn't do the trick, I'll install one of my large Interstate's directly in the Eagle. Even the smaller one in my Subaru has something like 675 CCA. Update as soon as I can get this done around work. Wish me luck.................I can't think of anything else to check!
Is the motor able to turn over by hand
if that battery spun the new starter on the bench and wont spin the one in the bird (when you put the cables on the starter) then i would say its the starter. I use Interstate deepcycle batteries (marine) in all my rigs. I understand it might be over kill but they last forever and i've never had a dead batt. I can use my electrical stuff for a long time and not worry about it starting.
Quote from: standup650 on March 28, 2012, 10:32:22 AM
if that battery spun the new starter on the bench and wont spin the one in the bird (when you put the cables on the starter) then i would say its the starter. I use Interstate deepcycle batteries (marine) in all my rigs. I understand it might be over kill but they last forever and i've never had a dead batt. I can use my electrical stuff for a long time and not worry about it starting.
The battery in the Eagle is an old, small Napa premium. It has never spun a starter with my jumpers, but the starter did engage strongly from another battery. I totally agree with the Interstate batteries: mine aren't deep-cycle, but as large as will fit in my rigs, with high CCA.
Got her running today :occasion14:
It was just the battery, ultimately.
Swapped out one from my Subaru, and it cranked...ran pretty smooth for only having 1/4 tank of year old gas in it too!
At least now I shouldn't have to worry about the starting system for a while.
:hello2: congrats man!