AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: Senor_taco on February 12, 2012, 09:34:14 PM
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I need to get something better than the crappy carter bbd thats on my eagle. I have been reading up on the subject and so far the motorcraft 2150 seems like my best option. The Rochester carb is also supposed to be good though. I need the one that is the easiest and cheapest to set up. Is there anything that just bolts up without alot of hassle? Is there a preferred cfm? Any help is appreciated. Until then I will occupy my time using my usual problem solving method. :banghead:
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you need GRONK he has what you seek
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Whats nice about Gronks set up is its a plug and play set up...I couldnt be happier with it. Me and Gronk did find out on mine though if you have an earlier Eagle with the smog pump the carb needs to be raised just a hair with an extra gasket so the throttle clears the smog tube that runs along top of the manifold.
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There's the 2100/2150 Motorcraft as has been talked about.
Another popular choice is the Weber, of which there are two models. The 32/36 and the 38/38; which refer to bore sizes. They come as complete bolt-it kits.
There's also bolt-on Throttle-body injection (TBI) kits that don't require you to change your ignition system. Have a search through the archives, there's been a lot of discussion and people who have liked all of them.
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By rochester, if you're refering to the Quadrajet, yes they are awesomes carbs, however, they are very difficult to work with if you are not familiar with them. They are kind of a love/hate type thing, much more complex than your typical carb, I spent quite a bit of time dialing mine into my I6, well worth the effort I will add though.
So in other words...
Easy = no, not unless your a whiz with these carbs and have many variants laying around, for different jets, rods, and hangers to experiment with combinations.
Cheap = not really, you can get an adaptor plate, to go from 2 to 4bbl, but to get the full benefit, a 4bbl intake is desired, I've seen them from $75 used to over $350 new.
If time = money in your case, gronks kit may be the best bang for the buck, he takes much of the guess work out of it with his complete bolt on kits.
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Shaggimo is exactly right. The Rochester carb is much more advanced than a 2150. When you first transition from the "idle circuit", which is a series of tiny holes plugged by set screws to provide tiny amounts of air and fuel, your throttle plate comes away from the side of the bore and air is drawn in across the entire length of the throttle plate. An "Accelerator Pump" is needed to provide a shot of gasoline at the same time to keep the mixture from going suddenly too lean. Once the plate is away from the side of the bore it opens up and provides a consistant increase in air and fuel together. That's called the "Throttle Circuit" because fuel and air is no longer entering through the same way as when your car idles.
The Accelerator Pump is only necessary when the throttle first starts to move. Its the most common flaw in Carter Carbs too. I've bought three Eagles advertised as "Bad Carb" that had no other problem than that setting. Likewise my mechanic was fond of turning it off to squeak my Eagles through tailpipe sniffer tests. I had to readjust it annually. If you have it messed up you'll see the carb idle high at 1500 rpm, then drop to 500 RPM at the first touch of the gas pedal, then increase steadily from 500 to 3000 RPM. Of course that initial drop usually stalled the engine unless you compensated with a crazy high idle RPM or double footed the car to give quick stabs of the throttle while holding the brake with your left foot.
The Quadrajet has alot more going on and it has smaller primaries than secondaries to diminish the influx of air as the throttle plate starts to move. It uses less gas to smooth out the transition and is known to get better fuel mileage while being more reliable and smooth than a 2150. I love the Rochester carbs on the Iron Duke Eagles because they are a smaller version of the Quadrajet. Ideally every carb would have a tiny primary and large secondary but the Carter BBD and 2150 didn't bother with the extra complexity. The issue is that they have many more adjustments and linkages that may need to be tweaked . Its a very hard carb to set up.
Gronk's 2150 kit is very easy to adjust. It has a third of the adjustments most carbs have. Its well supported in the aftermarket. It has a better reputation than the weber by far. The minor details of the conversion are already well accounted for by Gronk. You have support. You will have dang near the same performance as the quadrajet with none of the time and commitment to it. Its as cheap as it could possibly be. You honestly shouldn't look further unless you're ready to go TBI or MPI at three times the cost and complexity for a very slight difference in performance.
The 2150's archille's heel is the Accelerator Pump. It has a rubber diaphram and is supposed to be replaced annually. Many people go a decade without changing them and then blame the carb for not running right. I would recommend replacing that every three years at least.
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Ford tried to build a small primary, large secondary carb, but it was too complex and most didn't work well, but when they did, they went like the proverbial bat out of heck!
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I think I will just get some cash together and get GRONKS kit. I will save the more complex stuff for when I redo my SX4. Thanks everyone for the tips and helping me make up my mind!
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It runs good and and looks nice too, not to mention getting rid of a bunch of vaccum lines. (http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/shanebo79/124310.jpg) (http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/shanebo79/124309.jpg)
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I'm interested in eliminating the computer and vaccuum mess but sticking to a Carter carb since I seem to get along with them so well. Can it be done?
I have three Weber Carters, a straight 2425 Carter(projected interest) and a straight 2681 Carter(vaccuum choke?) and a nice looking sandwich style air cleaner. As far as I care, I have parts galore. Is there any detailed guide for going about this?
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yes thats what i just did to my 86. only vac i have is egr, distrubutor, pcv, and 4x4. if you dont have it already then ford cap, adaptor, rotor, plugs, wires, and 3ohm coil.