OUCH ! I posted it in the wrong section, too... could somebody please move it to the wheels, brakes, etc.. section ? THANKS !
OK, I have (another) problem.
While driving, especially on sharp turns, but randomly, I heard a "scratching" noise (well, more like a grinding noise) coming from the front right wheel. At first it seemed to me that my brake pads were worn (the noise was similar to worn pads on disc), but some vibrations alerted me.
I lifted the front and, here we go, the wheel rattles and shakes when I grab it and move it. No need to bother and remove the rotor to understand the bearing has "gone fishing". It's not the kind of shaking caused by a bad pitman arm, been there, done that.
Now for the problem. I have no tools like an arbor press nor I have a convenient place at hand to have the bearing replaced. Well I have no bearings too, but we'll think about it later ;)
This takes me to two stupid questions, let's go:
1) How safe is to drive the car in this condition (I'd rather use it anyway until parts arrive and work is done) ? Basically I drive it from home to work and back, no more than 10 miles a day at 45 MPH as top speed. Do I risk major damage like the wheel coming off or something ?
2) Can I solve the "no tools" issue by buying and installing a complete half shaft like this (courtesy EaglePedia) ?(http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/images/7/7e/Rebuilthalfshaft.jpg)
Something tells me I'm completely out of way, but I need advice.
Or is it more a hub matter ? (I'm doing something I hate - writing while thinking - but please bear with me ;) )
An in that case, is there a chance I can find a whole hub assembly for a clean, quick and safe replacement ?
Waiting for input... thank you all !
Sounds like the hub to me. I would not drive it. It could seize up on you at the worst time and welded to the hub bearings will not do you much good.
That's bad. Ugly, I'd say.
So, I read around a little more and I definitely figured out the half shaft is out of question.
It's an hub thing. OK, then, any suggestion on which parts to buy and, once I have them, how to install ?
Browsing through RockAuto catalog (my only source at the moment) is a bit confusing for me now, at home I'll take a look at the TSM maybe it'll help.
But I believe someone with direct experience about this thing will surely help me more than any book. So it's a cry for help, now !
How much stuff will I have to tear down ?
And, is there any chance I can succeed in rebuilding the hub without that arbor press ? Even if I find some shop, they will have the press but the right adapters won't be easy to find.
A little research and browsing ended up in this shopping list:
I found only Timken stuff on RockAuto, hope that's good.
- 2 sets of bearings (race and seat): their part# is "SET26". I assume the inner and outer bearings are identical but tell me if I'm wrong.
- 1 seal (knuckle side) part# 3942
- 1 seal (wheel side) part# 3553
The part#'s match with those I found on a post here, the bearing named on the post is SKF but the "26" is also in the SKF #
Is this enough for rebuilding the hub ? I hope spacer(s) can be reused and o-rings are quite easy to find anyway.
Any ideas, suggestions, corrections ? I really need some expert help here, because I just don't know what I'm going to do ;)
I'll wait for your feedback before finalizing the order (I'll have to wait anyway, because this month my credit card seems to be frozen).
Obviously, if somebody has a rebuilt hub ready to ship, it would be wonderful... but I kind of understood that it's no popular part...
The EN Store sells the rubber O-ring that is hard to find. Only one grease seal is used on our hubs. Have you checked our How To in the AMC Eaglepedia?
Are you sure the movement is in the hub and not the upper or lower ball joints?
Doug: I knew the online catalog would have gotten me confused... ow ! Ok, then, only one seal. I suppose the hub side one, right ?
Did I get the bearings thing right ? I mean is it really a couple of identical bearings mounted face to face into the carrier ? It's the only
doubt I still have.
I'll check the Store for the orings, then. Get ready to ship some !
Earl: I'm pretty sure, because with the wheel off, if I hold the rotor and move it, the slack seems to be right there. If it were the ball joints I should have also steering issues, which I have not. And the thing that speaks "bearings" is the noise. Quite typical ;) "crunkcrunksquealgrrrrrcrunk - then silence - then crunkcrunkandso on"...
Casper: As far as I can understand from what I've read here, it should be fairly easy (I will know better after trying to do it). The only thing I'm worried about is the extraction of the old bearings and the placement of the new ones in case of lack of specialty tools (that's my condition), without damaging the carrier. I guess I'll need some help from a shop anyway, especially on the tools side. I'm still in the "parts gathering" phase, though...
Yes, the two same bearings for each side. So, a total of four if you are doing both hubs. Yes, its and outer seal, towards the wheel. #7 in the diagram. #15 (B) is only used on Jeep hubs. O-rings are standing by waiting for a mailing address.
Sorry if I'm a bit late to this but, unless I'm mistaken the front bearings(SP?) on the eagle are the full hub and bearing set. I've not done one on an eagle quite yet but from what i remember its three or four bolts that hold the hub tight with the knuckle which is usually rusty and not fun to get off.
Someone tell me if this isn't correct on the eagles.
OK, it happened. Well, it quite happened, I managed to stop before things went really bad. The grinding noise grew louder and louder and the last 2 miles trip from work to home turned into a nightmare, at 15mph with hazard flashers on and the Eagle constantly pulling right in a request to "stop please, before this wheel comes off" !
I managed to take her home (or should I say that she managed to take me home ? ) and now she's safely parked in my driveway, with a jackstand to relief the pressure and weight on the abused hub.
Parts are on the way, I should get the bearings and all next week. Saturday I'm going to remove the hub so that when the parts arrive I'll be able to take it to a shop (luckily enough I discovered that a friend of mine has a wonderful arbor press in his shop with all the necessary adapters and plates) and rebuild it.
I 'm just hoping I didn't damage the carrier or the shaft, and the bearings are the only casualties. Otherwise that will be BAD !
I'll keep you updated and I'll ask for your help in case need be. Be prepared ! ;)
Have the O-Rings reached you yet? I would hope they have by now.
Unfortunately not, but I expect them to be in the mail by the end of the week. Mail from the US takes a couple of days to get to Italy, and *then* 7 working days to reach the actual destination. :( I hate it, but I have to live with that...
OK -- let me know when they get there. I know, money wise, its not a big deal but they are important to a good rebuild.
There is a second seal that fits in the back of the steering knuckle which is the part that the hub bolts to. It seals around the half shaft and seals the back of hub. It should be replaced when rebuilding a hub. :)
Happy Eagle - ing !
profeagle: whoops, it seems I didn't take it into account. It would be annoying to miss one piece with the hub stripped down and the car on jackstands. Let me resume the parts I'm going to get, just to make sure we're not talking about the same part:
Two sets of bearings and races (we're doing only 1 hub at this time);
One seal for the carrier, hub side. (I read Jeep hubs need a second one on the knuckle side, but Eagles don't);
One O-ring that goes between the hub assy.+ splash plate and the steering knuckle (maybe this one is the seal you're mentioning?).
Am I still missing something ?
Thanks...
When you remove the half shaft look at the back of the knuckle, you will see a seal there where the end of the shaft came out. That is the one I refer to. Pop it out with a screwdriver and you may be able to get a part number off it ?
The service manual is very poor as to complete pictures or descriptions, but if anybody has one, look on page G-140 left side, near top, you will see the instruction that says - "install the inner seal in the steering knuckle pin ".
Hope all is clear to you now, all other parts correct.
Note :
Be sure to assemble the splash shield to hub before installing O-ring to avoid damage to same and lube seal lips before assembly. Use something like Vaseline on O-ring ;D, not grease or oil. [ just a very thin coating ].
Happy Eagle-ing :)
EGGcellent advice.
Well, I got the bearings and seals last week (Doug, still no luck on the o-ring side, but I'm confident our mighty postal service will succeed in delivering them, sooner or later :( ). So good. Then, last saturday I prepared the workplace, aligned all my tools, and started the long hub removal adventure.
There's enough stuff for a detailed how-to (I also have some pics) and stuff left for the "DON'T DO THIS" section: I'll prepare and post both when it will be over, IF it will ever be over...
The center axle nut was loosened quite easily (with the help of a 1,5 meters long bar ;) ), then I lifted and supported the front, removed the wheel, found out that the lower end of the caliper had shifted 1 - 1/2 inch towards the wheel due to the rotor's abnormal play (the hub bearings are really shot).
Ok, no visible damage anyway, removed and hung the caliper out of the way to the top of the spring as per the Book.
Then, removed the axle center nut. Everything OK.
Then, disconnected the caliper anchor plate and the steering arm from the steering knuckle. This is the first PITA, because the bolts are likely to be locked in place, and we are working in a quite restricted place: no room for big tools, so sweat 'n swear. But it has to be done, otherwise you'll have no access to the three darn torx head bolts retaining the hub carrier.
Now the "DON'T DO THIS" part: the Book says you have to disconnect the half shaft flange from the T-Case and remove the whole half shaft assembly (being careful not to let the half safts separate in the process - just wrap some wire around the two boots).
Well, I thought I had dealt enough with "frozen" bolts and decided to proceed bypassing this part.
Bad idea. I should have followed the Book.
Basically because if you don't pull out the axle, the steering arm (even if correctly disconnected) won't get out of the way: it will float around there and it won't clear your way to the lower one of the three torx carrier bolts.
There are three of them: the upper front is easily reachable, the upper rear is cleared when you remove the caliper anchor plate, but that f**k##g (sorry) lower son of a **#*h (sorry again ;) ) is in a very very difficult position.
Add the fact that they're all Loc-tited and that you access them from the back side of the steering knuckle and you have the full picture.
So what did I do ? Well, using the very very narrow space gained by pulling backwards as much as possible the half shaft spindle and moving the steering arm here and there (but it won't let go, you always have it in front of your tool) I attacked the lower bolt with the wrong tool: an ordinary wrench and a hammer.
It was the last one (I happily removed the upper two), rain was starting to fall, so I hurried up and (as always when I do such things) I screw'd up everything. The wrench slipped bad, the hammer hit my thumb (ouch!) and (worst part) I ended up with a badly rounded torx head frozen bolt. In the hardest place ever to reach with any other "rescue" tool. (whoever tried to remove the hub will know what I mean).
Eventually (too late) I found the way to remove the steering arm anyway: if you disconnect it from the tie rod (a puller is needed) it will slip off pulling it backwards. But, as I said, too late.
So now I'm at a stop. Sitting Duck.
I think that bolt will never come off, I'm thinking about drilling it away (slow speed drill and cobalt steel bit) but I'm afraid of damaging the carrier threads and/or the knuckle. And then I'd need new bolts anyway (which I don't have).
Any Ideas ? Suggestions ? What would you do ?
Sorry for the long writing, but I wanted to give the best picture of the situation.
OK. Stop me before I do something I'll regret.
I spent another saturday trying to pull that lower hub carrier bolt out. Results (in mixed order):
1) Dog looking at me with that knowing look. He thinks he's lucky not to own a car and not having to have it serviced by me.
2) Wife mad at me ("it took you less time to build our home than to fix that **mn thing"!!).
3) Even more rounded bolt head: I even tried turning it with a chisel and a hammer, you can easily imagine the results.
4) Left hand totally numb and right arm hurting like heck.
What would you do ?
Here's my idea:
with one of the two extracted bolts for reference, I'm buying cobalt steel drill bits: I'd start drilling a hole in the center of the bolt head with a small (thin) bit and then enlarge it with bigger ones, until I reach the diameter of the bolt's stud (or a hair thinner).
I'm not drilling deep into the bolt, my plan is to stop right before the bit reaches the steering knuckle plate. I want to drill away the bolt head and that kind of built in washer (lip ?) that lies on the knuckle.
Studying the two free upper holes, I noticed that the knuckle part is not threaded (it's just a pass-through hole), the threads for the bolt are only on the carrier itself. So, if I manage to remove (grind away) the head and lip, I should be able to punch it out the knuckle. If my plans are right, the carrier should fall off with that bolt sticking out enough to be easily removed in some other and more effective way (finally being off the vehicle).
Then, I'll need a new bolt (or better, three new ones), but I hope I can find something suitable in some hardware store here.
How does it sound to you ? Shall I go this way ? Is there something I'm overlooking ?
The Eagle is sitting since feb.23rd, and I'm sharing my wife's car (me in the morning, she in the afternoon) since then. Well it's quite annoying, and what's more I'm tired of driving stick: I want my AT back ! ;)
A good plan, should work okay for you.
I feel better, thanks... those are exactly the words I was hoping to hear ;)
I just used my lunch time today to start working on it. I managed to grind away the head and part (just a bit) of the lip.
I managed to waste 4 (four) cobalt drill bits in the process, too. Even with lubrication and homemade cooling that steel (if that's what they use to make those bolts) is really hard to drill through.
I stopped because I was out of bits and time. But I think that tomorrow in an hour or so, with new tools, I should succeed.
I can't wait to see that hub falling on the ground ! The worst part is that thursday will be nationwide holiday, so my friend's shop (where the marvellous arbor press lives) will be closed and I'll have to wait until friday to rebuild the hub. The good side is that I'll have the weekend to put things back together. Fingers crossed, going ahead !
Have the O-Rings shown up yet?
Nope, but I'm still confident. There's time until friday, anyways... ;)
Doug: O-Rings in my mail yesterday !!!! Yeeeee-haaw ! Slow but sure. Can't thank you enough.
And this morning, the hub came off ! Beating and beating then drilling and beating again did the trick.
I definitely have to write a detailed howto about this thing. There's a lot of "don't do this" I discovered... must share.
So, with a little delay ;) monday I'm rebuilding the hub. Then it will just be a matter of reassembling everything.
BTW: the dang carrier bolt is obviously not reusable (and the other two are not in good shape). Do you think I'll be able to find a set of carrier bolts from a Jeep dealer here ? I mean, as far as you all know, is there some Jeep model (CJ-Whatever, Cherokee, younameit) that maybe shares the same hub bolts ?
It surely would make my life easier. Otherwise, I'll have to find similar bolts in some hardware store. In this case, I'd definitely use some normal hex head ones, instead of those torx things....
A jeep dealer may not be a bad idea. Even though our hubs are unique, frugal AMC may have used the same fasteners.
Thank for your description, I am glad you won.
I am facing the same problem the an 87 Wagon in Davenport Iowa, would anyone know of a person or place familiar with this within 100 miles. I have AAA.
Also could you referr me to some tech details or instructions that I could give to someone who may not be familiar but have the skills to do it.
Also what would something like this cost?
gbuckley: as soon as I finished the job, I wrote down a "little" how-to about it, you can find it here:
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=35193.0
There's a part list, the needed tools, the steps to follow and some pics, too (not many).
Last but not least, there's the link to the original TSM procedure, posted here on the EaglePedia.
The cost is quite low, and it's all about labour.