AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Mighty 258 => Cooling System => Topic started by: eaglefreek on February 27, 2012, 09:51:26 PM
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I installed an electric fan about a year ago. It was dual fan from a Chrysler LHS. It fit perfect but it didn't keep the engine cool on the real hot days. I didn't notice any difference in MPG or HP. Well today it crapped out on the way home from work. I was 20 miles from home but luckily a 1/4 mile from a buddy's house. I parked it at his house, retrieved my old mechanical fan and installed it and kicked the electric fan to the curb.
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I installed an electric fan in my Gremlin a few years ago and while it works I'm not entirely happy with it. The temperature gauge stays where it should but I'm convinced the engine compartment is hotter than before. I don't know that it affects the engine but I don't think its a good thing.
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i run a 15inch plastic fan with a 1-1/4 spacer, no clutch. doing this removed a ton of weight from the water pump shaft, and cooling is awesome! Best of all nothing to fail! yes i know the belt but they last longer with less drag on them.
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I caution people putting an electric fan on a car that can with a mechanical fan... while it MIGHT work fine for some cars.. it doesn't work for all.
I put an electric fan on my 93 Chevy Caprice and I started eating through radiators like crazy... eventually I found this link... turns out I've been heat cycling my engine and cooling system... I suppose this is why I went through 6 radiators, ended up with a bad head gasket and a broken exhaust manifold.
http://www.dccontrol.com/introf2.htm
Pretty sure I ruined everything... and I thought I was doing something good for it.. FAIL.
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I have plenty of friends with high horsepower car's who put electric fans in and have no cooling issues.
The biggest problem is people take junkyard fans, that might not be working full capacity or not designed to move as much air as your motor needs. I've also seen plenty of car's overheat at lower speeds because people removed the fan shrouds. People around here seem to pull electric fans from junk yard.. throw them in without any sort of research and then cry when it doesn't work better than stock. Just because it fit's, doesn't mean it will work.
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Just sharing my experience with a paticular fan. My reaearch indicated the LHS dual fan is one of the highest cfm fans with a 5000 cfm rating. I didn't modify the shroud as it fit perfect and covered almost all of the radiator. I also used a dual fan controller. Could the fan have been wore out the whole time? Possibly, but unlikely. One of my theories is that the shroud and fans actaually caused a restriction for the air coming through at highway speeds. As of now, the mechanical fan does a great job without any difference in MPG or butt dyno HP.
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It also makes a big difference as to were the sensor for the temp switch is. If you don't have the right one or have it in the right place you'll end up with all sorts of issues.
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Apples to oranges yes, but I've been running an electric fan in my malibu for years with no ill effects, a junkyard fan to boot (but I obtained a dual fan from a V8 car ;) ). This is a car that often sees dd status in the summer, it stays at 185 in city traffic on a 95 degree day, I'm happy with that (Olds V8's were notorious for liking 195-200 temps). Can't vouch for butt horsepower though, it's been so long since I've had a clutch fan on that engine or maybe I never even ran one on it, lol.
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In my 350 TBI Caprice... I was using a Flex A Lite 295...
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/27inch-electric.html
... and the fan covered the entire core of the rad perfectly. Right to the edges. I also used the Flex A Lite Variable Speed Control...
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/31165-99943.pdf
...which used a radiator probe that is supposed to be put near the upper rad hose where the incoming hot fluid is coming in.. which is on the driver side of my Caprice.
I drove it around for a few years and everything seemed good... then one day.. I just kept getting pin holes in the pass. tank near the trans fluid cooler bung. I'd have them repaired.. they'd come right back... I had a new tank put on... came right back... had it checked for electrolysis by 3 different shops... they found no evidence. So now I am going to finally reinstall a new stock 2 row brass copper... tear off the electric fan and put the stock clutch fan back on, fix the head gasket, remove the broken exhaust manifold bolt in the head and try it again!
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So what fans would fit the Eagle? I'm removing the old 258 and popping in a 4.0 from a XJ.
What model cars should I look at for compatible electric fans?
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Is your heart set on an electric fan? There's a lot of people with bad things to say about them. Even if you keep the 4.0L wide serpentine belt you it's not too hard or expensive to swap the offset XJ fan with a centered ZJ or TJ setup. Those fit without a problem.
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Not dead set on an electric fan, just weighing my options. Can't seem to find a use ZJ fan anywheres, and I'd rather avoid tearing off the waterpump, etc from the 4.0 since I'm lazy and trying to save money (a lot of junkyards here to snag fans out of).
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I went over to his place last night. We discussed this, and it will be easier to quick fab a tray or move the battery to another area.
Yes...I'm just that cheap and lazy.
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I will start by saying an AMC with a 63 AMP alternator does not have the ability to run electric fans... add up your max amp usage. that is 63 amps MAX output not constant.
I know from personal experience with electric fans that:
-A shroud is a must and must fit the core perfectly and have a area between the radiator core and shroud that allows the fan to pull air from the entire core
-dual fans are pretty much a must, 1 all time generally larger and more CFM and 1 slightly smaller with slightly lower CFM
-radiator probes are not a question of if they fail, it is when will they fail.
-electronic dual fan controller that has an optional A/C input and fully adjustable is not much more money and can be setup to function like it was factory
-that electronic controller needs to go to a sensor screwed into the head
-two individual relays, 1 for each fan to take the load off of the controller and the fans
-proper guage wire and as short as possible wires to take the load off the fans, less resistance=longer fan life and higher fan speeds
-proper amp fuse links to protect your recent investment, electric fans are an investment so dont toast them in the first couple months and is as simple as putting a fuse link before the power source to each relay.
In my experience I always mounted the main fan closest to the battery since it runs all the time as soon as the engine is at operating tempurature. shorter wires, explained above. the secondary fan was mounted on the other side due to its lower power use and lesser run time. I will estimate what i would use for a mild built SBC 350 with Auto trans and A/C and put up a break down and parts list.
Again, watch your amp output. ask any questions and i will explain in detail in that breakdown.
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If I were to put together an electric fan set up based on a mild SBC 350(275-300HP), turbo 350 and A/C, I would at least have the following. I would start out with a factory V-8 radiator, 2 electric fans rated at 1000+CFM, sheet metal shroud similar to the one shown here(http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/81150-Electric-Fan-cfm), a controller, a matching sending unit and a relay box.
Start by basically matching the shroud shown above to fit your radiator. On an Eagle radiator mount the primary fan ¼-1/2” below the top of the radiator on the radiator inlet side. Mount the other fan low ¼-1/2” above the bottom of the radiator on the outlet side. The following fans will fit but be tight, Zirgo ZFB12S and ZFB10S, and cost roughly $140 for both. Lay them out to ensure they fit before cutting the large holes. Use small bolts with self locking nuts to mount the fan to the shroud. These two fans should allow enough free flowing air at highway speeds without additional holes.
Next, is wiring your relay box. I used Jegs 10569 relay kit with breakers(~$72), (instructions located here, http://www.jegs.com/installationinstructions/500/555/555-10569.pdf) instead of fuses for simplicity and on the side of the road fix with no parts to replace. Just look everything over, reset the breaker and see if it works. If not… there is a bigger issue. Set up the kit following the instructions. Use a controller mentioned next to be the fan switch. Each yellow wire, I used a black marker to mark one of the yellows, will run to either the primary or secondary spots on the controller. Solder and shrink tube all butt connections.
Now you have 2 yellow wires in the cabin most likely on the passenger side in the kick panel area. I used a PAC-2750(Instructions located here, http://www.dakotadigital.com/pdf/pac-2750.pdf) controller that costs ~$115 to control the 2 fans. Research this before you jump to the conclusion this is too much money. You will need a Dakota Digital sending unit PN SEN-04-#(1-8), the 1-8 is different threads and such. All of them are compatible with this controller. Follow the instructions for two separate fans.
I chose these parts based on wanting a full control of the fans. This is the best bang for the buck I could find with a lot of research and did not leave me stranded when I used it on a 355 SBC, Turbo 350 and A/C. 95-100 degree F sunny days would kick the second fan on in town when idling for a few seconds but maintained temperature. I had slightly larger fans but used the dimensions of an Eagle, 4.2L, A/C Radiator for the fan selection. I had enough room for a 14” and 12” S-blade and they worked great. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to electric fans.
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I'm swapping to a Jeep Cherokee drivetrain so that would be running Amy electric fan.
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OK...To make this quick and easy what model vehicles can I take electric fans from to stick in the Eagle?
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I'm using a ZJ waterpump and fan (centered like Eagle)
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Here's an earlier thread about fans.
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=36756.msg296774#msg296774
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Looks like Chrysler LHS, Ford Taurus (Slimline fan), or some Subaru stuff is what I need to look for.
That's if it's cheaper than the ZJ waterpump/fan I'd need to find.
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For the ZJ waterpump is it the stock engine one? Which way should it turn, clockwise or ccw?
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CCW and it's serpentine belt.
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All the ones I see don't tell cw or ccw or even serpentine.
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I use to work for a company in which we manufactured fan blades among other things but they weren't for auto's. The important thing to remember is that they are not all equal. The blades themselves are made at specified angles & the spiders that they attach to are also made at specified angles. This all helps determine the cfm. Also as a side note I remember back in the 50s-60s it was popular to install Old's & even Cadillac engines in 53' Studebakers. A common problem was overheating. The stock radiator wound up too far from the fan so an extra spacer was commonly used. But the real problem was that they were removing the radiator shroud.