AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: carguy87 on August 25, 2011, 08:40:05 AM
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Recently pulled an old tired 4.2L out of the Eagle for a rebuild and thought, why not? So here I am rebuilding it with a 4.0L camshaft and cylinder head and putting the EFI setup from a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee onto it. I'll have more pictures and info as I go along. I will hopefully have some great numbers afterwards too, planning to dyno it before I change to a Mega Squirt system and do any radical changes. Little about my car, 85 wagon, it was a stock 4.2L with computer bypass, stock carburetor, TFI upgrade with 60k volt coil, ENVALVE, smog and vacuum gutted to my preference(4WD selector, EGR, and intake valves on the air cleaner), 3.53 gears, and 3spd. auto with lockup. I averaged around 16-17mpg and 19 highway. Doing this as I lost compression in number 3 cylinder.
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Good to have another 4.0 head project here.
Using the 4.0 camshaft is a good idea too.
Did you have the water sockets in the head welded up?
What are your plans for the exhaust manifold?
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I used JB Weld on the water jackets. For now I am sticking with the stock 4.0L header and modifying the exhaust to route the right way. Once I get the rings set and the engine broken in, I'm planning on switching to a Mega Squirt system, higher flow injectors, and putting a small Turbo on it to beef up the old girl and see what I can do without going too overboard. Of course with the Turbo, I'll have to switch to an electric fan and probably a serpentine belt to keep it from slipping too much, but that is in the future.
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I have electric fans, on a homemade frame:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa237/jurjen_eagle/IMG_0323.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa237/jurjen_eagle/fans.jpg)
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Woah that looks really nice. Are those tornado fans by any chance?
How does the whole thing sound when it runs? :o
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No tornado fans, just some cheap fans from the evil bay, 80Watts 1250 CFM each.
They are still offered on the bay for about 15$ each.
I wanted to test if they had any influence on the fuel milage.
No measurable influence as far as I can say.
What I did notice is that they are never running, as long as you go faster than 15MPH they will never switch on because of engine temperature.
They are very quiet because of thet S-shaped blades.
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How much did that setup cost you? I might have to get some measurements from you ;) Are those 3 solenoids by the battery what you wired in to control them? I would probably wire them into my 4.0 harness and fuse block to get rid of that code and keep it at it's happiest temperature.
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I installed a dual fan setup from a Chrysler vehicle. It works great under normal circumstances however, when it's over 90 degrees or up inclines, it gets really hot. I also didn't notice any difference in MPG. Carguy, do you have any experience with Megasquirt?
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That set-up cost me about a $100. I have two relais switching the fans.
One relay is operated by the coolant temperature, the other by switching on the A/C.
The frame was made from left-overs from the company I work for.
It was intented as a temporary test, but since it functions very well, it stays in for the time being.
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Wow, it's been hectic here with my new job and the holiday weekend. I finaly got some time to work on the car yesterday. I managed to get the engine put together, painted, installed in the car, and most of the electrical installed. I thinned out the harnesses quite a bit, but I got in a rush and couldn't thin down the harness going to the tranny and inside the vehicle yet, but what I did pull out gave me a lot more room. For my CPS I welded up some angle iron to hold a piece of flatstock above a hole I cut into the transmission housing. I will hopefully get a chance to run the plumbing and rest of my vacuum lines tomorrow as I finally have a day off. I'll add updates and hopefully some pictures of the process in a couple days.
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So your using the factory computer first and then switching to Megasquirt later? The CPS won't be used with Megasquirt, ha e you figured out which way you'll trigger the MS?
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http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1180803230/30
your megasquirt should work the same, or at least close. this one is turbo, and a 4.0.
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http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1180803230/30
your megasquirt should work the same, or at least close. this one is turbo, and a 4.0.
Tom modified the distributor to trigger the Megasquirt. He's quite the smart guy.
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Debating on the MS trigger. I am either going to use the distributor like many have, or my favored option, switching to a coil on plug setup like the newer model 4.0's and running a reluctor ring on the crank dampner to trigger the MS. Right now giving it a proper break in is on top of the list though. Finaly got a few hours to do some work on it yesterday. I was able to mount the fuse box and fab up a mount for my fuel pressure regulator, I wanted to put it up in the engine bay to keep it accessible and more accurate at the rail. I also got my radiator, fan, and rest of my plumbing back in. Pulled out the cable to rig up my transmission pressure actuator, just used the cable housing from the donor 95' Jeep and made a bracket to mount to the back of the tranny, I then went to the local Tractor Supply and grabbed a length of same size cable that was long enough to mount to the actuating arm. Had to stop work to check out another side job and because I ran out of Fuel Injection hose clamps (I was 3 short :(). Hopefully Friday will be the break-in day. Maybe post pics Saturday and a short description to keep everyone from guessing, lol.
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Your project has me interested... I wanted to get some numbers down on mine so bad, and I was just a week or two away from doing it. MAKE SURE you get teh right size injectors the first time, should be no less than 24lbs/hr. I think I may have toasted the ring in the one I sold from a super lean condition at some point in time. Take it to a mechanic with a OBDI capable scan tool and have them check your fuel trim once it's running. I'm very interested in the numbers...
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Your project has me interested... I wanted to get some numbers down on mine so bad, and I was just a week or two away from doing it. MAKE SURE you get teh right size injectors the first time, should be no less than 24lbs/hr. I think I may have toasted the ring in the one I sold from a super lean condition at some point in time. Take it to a mechanic with a OBDI capable scan tool and have them check your fuel trim once it's running. I'm very interested in the numbers...
Just curious how you came up with the 24lb. injectors number? Just like the original poster, I have the 4.0 head swap with a Comp Cams camshaft. A friend of mine who is well versed in EFI told me the stock Jeep injectors should be fine based on his calculations. Also you were running E85 do you think that may have something to do with your lean condition?
Carguy I figured out how I'm going to trigger my MS. The Motorcraft distributor uses a VR sensor and I will use that to trigger through my MSD ignition. It won't be as accurate a trigger with a 36-1 wheel on the crank using EDIS, but since these engines don't rev to high it shouldn't be a problem.
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Wow, work is still crazy, 6 days a week and on Sundays all the house work. I calculated at least 27lb/hr injectors for my buildup. If you used a stock block, that could be the reason, but I had to bore my 4.2L block .030" over to get good fit between the pistons and the cylinders, I also put an open filter style intake on which will deliver much more air paired with the 92' 4.0L camshaft. I am going with a set of EV6 injectors with the old EV1 style electrical hookup, they provide a much more efficient spray pattern and are more of a variable rate injector, meaning I can play with my fuel pressure to lean out or beef up the mixture and not run into stumbling or driveability issues. I like your idea of the motorcraft distributor for the trigger, but as I have mentioned, I am going to do away with that inaccurate power robbing dinosaur as soon as I can. If you would like, I can put a link here that will explaine to you how to calculate what size injectors you need, it is worded much better than anything I can do, lol. Curious, what did you do for your kickdown? Did you remember to change to a cooler sparkplug over stockers?
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I'd like to see the link for injector sizing.
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http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/tech_specs.html
Navigate and read all specs on this page for all parts, EXTREMELY helpful information.
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Your project has me interested... I wanted to get some numbers down on mine so bad, and I was just a week or two away from doing it. MAKE SURE you get teh right size injectors the first time, should be no less than 24lbs/hr. I think I may have toasted the ring in the one I sold from a super lean condition at some point in time. Take it to a mechanic with a OBDI capable scan tool and have them check your fuel trim once it's running. I'm very interested in the numbers...
Just curious how you came up with the 24lb. injectors number? Just like the original poster, I have the 4.0 head swap with a Comp Cams camshaft. A friend of mine who is well versed in EFI told me the stock Jeep injectors should be fine based on his calculations. Also you were running E85 do you think that may have something to do with your lean condition?
Carguy I figured out how I'm going to trigger my MS. The Motorcraft distributor uses a VR sensor and I will use that to trigger through my MSD ignition. It won't be as accurate a trigger with a 36-1 wheel on the crank using EDIS, but since these engines don't rev to high it shouldn't be a problem.
My engine was bored to .030 over, and a stock 4.2 is larger than a 4.0 to begin with. Stock jeep injectors (at least, the most common ones) are around 19-21 lbs/hr for 4.0s. In addition. E85 requires an AFR of around 10:1 vs 14.7:1 for gas. 24s are the smallest you can use, without dangerously increasing the injector duty cycle which can cause premature failure. There are a few very well known efi swap builds in which the authors stress that stock injectors will not work. A 24lb injector can push up to 30 lbs with increased fuel pressure. Mine are rated at 24lb/hr at 39.5 psi, and they are the plastic bodied design III with EVI connectors.
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http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/Fuel_Injectors_and_Adaptors.pdf
This is a great link to explain everything properly. Stock injectors for our 91-95 HO 4.0's actually run 23.6lb/hr at 3bar or 43.5psi. And my compression is more than high enough as I had my head machined .010" to true and the block had to be machined as well. Problem with E85 is if you go with cheap components, they don't hold up properly and can be pitted because of the fuel. Most machine shops will recommend using chromoly ring sets when planning on running E85.
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And I would highly recommend switching to an EV6 style injector or disc style, over the pintle style EV1's that come stock on the Jeep's. Those pintle style are not as adaptable to changes in fuel pressure and can become erratic in operation and cause premature failure if too much fuel pressure is used, and lower fuel pressure can cause a poor spray wich will cause stumbling and stuttering of the engine. On top, the EV6's have a much better spray pattern which cause fuel atomization for a better fuel/air mixture, the EV1 style tend to shoot a stream like you'd expect from a squirt gun.
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Thanks for the links. I purchased 19lb EV6 injectors already. I think they'll do just fine for my application. I've got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator so I can make some adjustments if necessary.
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Thanks for the links. I purchased 19lb EV6 injectors already. I think they'll do just fine for my application. I've got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator so I can make some adjustments if necessary.
Pay close attention to your burn tips by keeping track of your spark plug ends. To be completely honest 19lbs is probably gonna be slim. That's what I started off with on mine and it was noticibly laggy...
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Thanks for the links. I purchased 19lb EV6 injectors already. I think they'll do just fine for my application. I've got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator so I can make some adjustments if necessary.
Pay close attention to your burn tips by keeping track of your spark plug ends. To be completely honest 19lbs is probably gonna be slim. That's what I started off with on mine and it was noticibly laggy...
Is that with gasoline or E85?
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Thanks for the links. I purchased 19lb EV6 injectors already. I think they'll do just fine for my application. I've got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator so I can make some adjustments if necessary.
Pay close attention to your burn tips by keeping track of your spark plug ends. To be completely honest 19lbs is probably gonna be slim. That's what I started off with on mine and it was noticibly laggy...
Is that with gasoline or E85?
With gas. I turned the fuel pressure up to 55 PSI with E85, so I was around 29lb/hr on cornohol. Should be 24lb/hr on gas, no less. when I checked fuel trim with engine running, it was still trying to correct 1.6%
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Hmmmm so seems I will have to adjust that for the gas - no cornhol here in NY scenerio........ ?or at least none nearby that I know of.We feed our corn to the cows : ) where it belongs.
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Finally got my 30lb./hr. fuel injectors in the mail and installed them Friday, what a difference, I was able to set the timing back properly and lower my fuel pressure and it runs amazingly. They are a couple pounds higher than what my engine requires, but that will keep from pushing them too hard and leave room for a turbo install at a later date. Now just to get to someone with a pipe bender to finish the last half of the exhaust and this Eagle will be one high flyer again.
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This discussion has been very helpful. I was about to purchase new injectors for mine. I was planning on one size larger than stock, which would be 24 lbs instead of 21 lbs. I'll be getting the 30 lb injectors instead. My engine is a 4.2 short block bored .060 over. Thanks!
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Haha, no problem, I hope you learned and calculated the proper size for your build. You might want to consider getting a higher voltage coil for yours to help reduce ignition problems. BTW stock for 91-95 HO are roughly 23.8lb./hr. so 24 would hardly help. My ride is soo much smoother and much easier getting up to speed now. Now to just do some tweaks to squeeze all the mpg's out of this sucker, lol.
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Wow, it's been hectic here with my new job and the holiday weekend. I finaly got some time to work on the car yesterday. I managed to get the engine put together, painted, installed in the car, and most of the electrical installed. I thinned out the harnesses quite a bit, but I got in a rush and couldn't thin down the harness going to the tranny and inside the vehicle yet, but what I did pull out gave me a lot more room. For my CPS I welded up some angle iron to hold a piece of flatstock above a hole I cut into the transmission housing. I will hopefully get a chance to run the plumbing and rest of my vacuum lines tomorrow as I finally have a day off. I'll add updates and hopefully some pictures of the process in a couple days.
I know it’s been a long time but I was wondering if you were still out there cargiy. I was hoping you had a picture of rigging the cps.
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I know it’s been a long time but I was wondering if you were still out there cargiy. I was hoping you had a picture of rigging the cps.
Looks like carguy last checked in about a year and a half ago. His email address is shown in his profile, just click on his username in one of his posts. You'll probably have the best luck emailing him directly. Good luck!
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I'm back guys, and can answer most questions about that build...it will all be from memory though