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Author Topic: egr hookup?  (Read 13798 times)

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Offline brownbear

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egr hookup?
« on: September 25, 2011, 05:09:48 PM »
my 87 sedan failed the emissions test, my NOx was very high.  legal limit is 1121 and it tested at 3224, so from what I have read it comes down to the egr valve.  I removed mine months ago and I put a plate over it.  I am picking up a new one tomorrow and I need to know where to hook it to.  I can't find a good link that will show me.  I have the 2150 upgrade and I read it can be hooked up somewhere on the front of the carb?  I also have this 2 port cto thingy off of the manifold.  Does it matter which port on that cto goes to the egr?  The port closeest to the manifold or the one furthest away????

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 05:24:20 PM »
Pretty much what PeterM sent you. Although, since you have a MC carb, the source will probably be in a different spot. Just make sure you use a ported vacuum source. Also, I'm guessing your air cleaner doesn't have the TVS sensors anymore, but that should be OK, just make sure you use the CTO valve. So basically just, ported vacuum source to CTO, and then CTO to EGR valve.
Dan
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2011, 05:32:26 PM »
I don't have the tvs sensors anymore.   So I have to run a ported source to that cto and then a line to the egr.  I thought this would be easier than that, where is a ported vacuum?  I don't know or understand all these ports

Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2011, 06:04:09 PM »
can't just tell what port to use.........

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 07:23:14 PM »
I still run a carter, so I don't know where the ported vacuum port is on a MC. However, if you hooked up your distributor correctly, which should be run of ported vacuum, then that port will work ( I am not sure if there is another ported vac port), you would just tee off it.
Dan
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2011, 04:21:32 PM »
I got a new bwd egr valve, does anyone know which orifice washer I'm to use?  I have 2 bags of these washers and I don't have my old egr valve.  I have no idea what these washers do or why I need them.......

Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2011, 07:03:27 PM »
found a port on the front of the carb and ran that to the cto and from the other port on the cto to the egr valve.  I guessed on what orifice washer to use.  Pretty easy intall and the eagle fired right up.  I let it warm up to see if the idle would change and it didn't, so I took it out for 30 min. drive then I stopped to get some 93 oct. gas.  It doesn't run any better or any worse, seems the same, I even still have the pinging when I acc. hard. I thought the egr was supposed to make that go away?  I honestly don't know if the thing even works, since there was no change in performance.  I didn't look, but I'm guessing if I rev the motor I should see the egr plunger go in and out?  Other than that I have no idea if it's doing anything at all.  I will go tomorrow for another emissions test and hope that it passes this time cuz I'm out of ideas.........

Offline thereverendbill

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 07:09:39 PM »
i am guessing your timing is off.  retard or advance the timing a few degrees (can't think of what way i went to get the pinging out of my wagon)
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Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2011, 10:49:06 PM »
With the engine revved up and held up, not too high, just like 1500, the EGR plunger should activate. You shouldn't notice a performance difference because they do not activate under full throttle as there is hardly any vacuum at full throttle. The EGR valves on these cars use vacuum and back pressure to activate, so if you have a really unrestricted exhaust system, such as no catalytic converter, it will not function completely correctly.
Dan
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 07:07:57 AM »
I joined this forum and not a silverado forum because I thought there would be hundreds of eagle owners willing to help me with my problems.  I bench press over 400lbs and if I want to reach 500 lbs I'm not going to go to a aerobics instructor I'm going to go to a gym.  When I train someone I don't just throw weight at them and tell them to lift it, I help them and instruct them so they do it right and not hurt themselves.  With that being said when I go to the auto parts stores they have no idea what kind of car I am driving and are no help to me at all, that's why I joined this forum for help not insults.  I have owned 19 cars and have never taken any of them to a mechanic.  I have done ALL the work myself.  This is my 3rd eagle and it is the only one I have done work to in attempts to make it run better.  It is different from any of the other cars I have worked on.  If I knew the answers to something and could help them fix the probelm, I have no problem with giving the guy all the answers he would need.  I would have thought there would have been more eagle owners going through the same issues I am going through and would be willing to help.  If I didn't like these cars I wouldn't have bought another.  Any bit of help is greatly appreciated and if I come acrossed someone who is in need of help and I have already tackled the project,  I will give that person informantion that I know.  I just trying to keep it running for another 25 winters..........

Offline GRONK

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 08:41:32 AM »
Late chiming in:  In your instructions, there is a section called: Understanding Vacuum Types and under it it says You MUST Understand This!
It is followed up with how to identify Ported and Manifold vacuum which is the followed by a section called Installing Your EGR

Only you can test this on your carb as all carbs are slightly different in that 2 carbs might have the same vacuum port on the body but one might be ported while the other is manifold.

We have been through your timing issues a couple of times already AND in the instructins it also explains why you want a lower octane fuel vs a higher octane fuel for the emissions test.  You should run 85/87 for an etest, not 91/93.  Higher octane fuels will hurt your emissions test not help it.
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Offline Whuntmore

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 11:40:39 PM »
I know how you feel sometimes, Brownbear. 

I'm having issues and sometimes people can help, sometimes I'm on my own.  It's not that we don't want to help, it's sometimes we can't.  It's different being there beside you, under the hood and working thru the issues, then being online asking questions, and hoping what we're saying could be right.

I'm willing to help anyone here, if I can help.  Sometimes I'm not much help because of my lack of experience with this car (with most cars, really).

As much as I hate to admit it, you might need to find someone who might be able to lend a hand.

Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 11:52:21 AM »
egr installed AND hooked up right enabled me to pass my emissions test...........thanks to those who helped

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »
Glad to hear you got it hooked up right and passed. Congrats.
Dan
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Offline jim

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 01:50:22 PM »
Congrats and a Good Egg for persevering.
I assure you I would have helped if I had known how.
I'm right 98% of the time, and I don't care about the other 3%.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand?
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 01:48:22 PM »
still have very bad pinging going on.  What I noticed today was first thing in the morning I have no pinging, not one ping, but as soon as the motor heats up I have tons of pinging.  Is that still a timing issue, cuz i have no problems retarding the timing.  The reason I ask is that whuntmore said his eagle does the same thing, only when it's hot his motor pings.  He mentioned hooking up a cold air intake, that it might help stop the pinging?

Offline GRONK

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2011, 03:11:30 PM »
Are you sure it's not an exhaust manifold leak.
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2011, 04:07:02 PM »
positive, it's a pinging.  I had carbed cars years ago and it has that bad gas pinging sound that only comes out when the motor is hot.

Offline Whuntmore

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2011, 07:10:37 PM »
I'm having the same issue.  it only happens when it's hot out. 

Now that it's fall, and temps are like in the 40's F, the car doesn't ping at all.    The carb needs some kind of cold air intake. 

Right now, it's taking in all the warmed air from around the motor.  Even the air coming thru the rad is adding to the warm air that the carb inhales.

That's the real issue here. 

In the heat of our summer months (well over 80 degrees and some days in the 90's) my eagle was pinging like crazy.  One hot day, I was driving up the highway, and the heat started to rise and the pinging got worse and worse. 

I turned on the heater full blast to cool down the engine, and the pinging got better.

This ain't a manifold leak, or spark plug issue (I've tried 5 different plugs - And I've got plugs for the life of the eagle) I've tried the timing from over 14 degrees BTDC to zero, It's got New plugs (several) wires, cap, button, coil, HEI, carb, hoses (all of them), fuel lines...

The list goes on.

It's nothing more then a 'Hot air going into the combustion chamber then cold" issue.


I'm willing to bet, if you rigged up some kind of cold air intake, it wouldn't ping at all.

Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2011, 07:31:07 PM »
it's in the 70s here in cleveland and 50s in the mornings and I don't get a ping until motor warms up.  My motor gets so hot you can;t do any work to it till it cools down.  I was messing with some wires and got burned by a hose.  I know on my truck where I put 2 super chips on, the instructions told me to put in a 160degree thermostat to help prevent the spark knock.  I also have throttle body spacers, and a cold air intake and everything stays cool.  What is the temp of the factory eagle thermostat and does anyone think it would help keep the motor cooleer and help with out pinging? 

Offline Whuntmore

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 07:42:17 PM »
I've noticed that during the hotter days my temps rise faster, and even before it gets to full operating temp, my car is pinging already.

I've got almost the same issue you have Brownbear.  Honestly, you could get a new ERG valve, but if you had the carb sucking cold air directly off the front of the car, I bet that would do it.

Anyways, it's the cheaper of the two, and the results would be right away.   But don't believe me, try to rig up some kind of cold air return, and see if that don't do it.

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 07:50:15 PM »
A setup similar to the factory air cleaner would probably help. Does the factory air cleaner work on the MC carbs? If not, can it be modified to work?
Dan
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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 09:10:55 PM »
I have a new egr valve, don't know if it's better or worse it just allowed me to pass my echeck and yes somewhere in the instructions there is some type of mod for the intake.  I won't look as good, but if it will help the pinging I will try.  Anyone have any info on the thermostat and if going to a lower temp will help?

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 09:48:17 PM »
It might help, but if it didn't ping before putting on the new carb, then putting in a lower temp thermostat would just be a band aide fix. Probably better off fixing the real problem.
Dan
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Offline Bird-o-Prey

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2011, 07:16:19 PM »
I have an MC2100 off of a mustang and a GM HEI distributor.  I am running a 190 degree thermostat.  I get no pinging at all, summer or winter and our summers get into the 90's.  I run the car on regular unleaded fuel.  I am willing to bet that it is a timing issue.  Try changing to a hotter spark plug and if you are using a stock distributor, try using a hotter coil as well.  Make sure you have a good fuel ratio, too.

Chris 
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Offline mudkicker715

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2011, 08:22:03 PM »
What are theplugs gapped to?



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Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2011, 08:59:29 PM »
new tfi upgrade, petronix coil and they should be at 45 gap.......

Offline carnuck

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2011, 11:47:01 PM »
MCU bypass diagram from my old webpage

http://www.oocities.org/eaglemania2002/bypass.html
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Offline Bird-o-Prey

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 01:15:22 AM »
I have my plugs gapped at .45.  No problems. :-\
No matter how bad YOU think it is ... it could always be WORSE!!

Offline brownbear

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2011, 04:54:47 PM »
doing more research on pinging, and I read some good things about using seafoam.  Has anyone used this product to clean http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm out carbon build up, which can cause detonation?  I found a website that  might be helpful?  
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 06:08:06 PM by Whuntmore »

Offline carnuck

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 03:41:57 AM »
I've used water for almost 30 years to decarburize motors.
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Offline Whuntmore

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 10:36:34 PM »
So does anyone have a write-up on how to properly use this 'Seafoam'?

waddya do?  chuck it down the carb, or put it into the tank?

I've heard you guys mention this Seafoam, but I don't remember anyone saying the application.

Offline ammachine390

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Re: egr hookup?
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 10:38:59 PM »
There is a "How to use" video on their site.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html
Dan
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