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Author Topic: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon  (Read 13260 times)

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Offline V8Eagle

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V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« on: May 27, 2021, 12:45:17 PM »
As is customary with my project threads, I'm going to start this one before I pick up the vehicle. In what may be the world's strangest trade agreement, I will hopefully be trading my lifted crown victoria for an '84 AMC Eagle next week, contingent on the crown vic making it through the gambler 500 this weekend in 1 piece (which it will, it is :censored: near indestructible). Pic of the crown vic:



Now, some details on the AMC:

Its a 1984 Eagle wagon. Not just a normal Eagle wagon however. This one has been V8 swapped with an AMC 360 out of a mid 80's FSJ product (grand wagoneer, cherokee, etc). Behind the 360 is a torqueflight 727 trans, followed by the stock eagle single speed transfer case. From there, I think it is a Dana 35 rear (stock eagle) axle, and Dana 30 IFS front differential (again stock eagle stuff). Here are some pics of the vehicle in question:









The AMC has been lifted about 2" with V8 Javelin springs up front, and an add-a-leaf in the rear. Main issue currently is that the drivers side front CV joint on the halfshaft is in about 5 pieces, it came apart while turning sharply at a fairly good clip (per the PO). I'd have to imagine the angles aren't real happy with the lift, so I'll have to figure that whole thing out. Otherwise the car is in pretty good shape, it came from the land of no rust known as North Carolina, and has only been here in Michigan for about 2 years. The underside is in very respectable shape for a car that is approaching 40 years old. Also, the engine has been pretty thoroughly gone through over the last year or so. New distributor and cam gear, new water pump and timing chain, new carburetor (first car I will have ever owned with one of those...), new gas tank and sending unit, and new brakes.

This should be an interesting ride... Stay tuned for more details
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 12:46:43 PM by V8Eagle »

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2021, 12:48:47 PM »
Alright, AMC aquired. Naturally some pics to document the start of the project, before I got it off the trailer:







And a couple of it once I got it into the garage:






Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2021, 12:50:08 PM »
First thing on the agenda was to get the drivers side CV joint replaced. The previous one had a massive failure...


I was able to source one out of a 1985 Chevy S10, which is supposed to be a bit longer and help the angles a bit on lifted Eagles. It was in stock at O'Reillys and ready for pickup as of noon today. Gotta love american cars... It is definitely the shinest thing on the car now.



Following the CV shaft replacement, I took the ol' girl out for a quick spin around the neighborhood. Was the first time I had driven the car more than about 20 feet. Thoughts thus far:

1. The steering is sketchy. I'm not expecting perfection, but its to the point where it is borderline dangerous. Huge dead spot in the middle of the steering wheel. I crawled under once I got home and noticed that the joint on the end of the pitman arm is completely toasted, to the point where I can move it up and down at least a 1/2 inch by hand. That is next on the list

2. Along the lines of suspension, I also noticed that the upper control arm bushings are totally shot. So are the sway bar bushings. Add both of those to the rock auto order

3. Anything over about 1/4 throttle kind of chokes out the engine. Need to look into carb tuning and make sure the timing is set to something reasonable. Could also probably use fresh gas.

4. Transfer case is leaking. Planning on swapping to an NP242 anyways, so not overly concerned about it.

5. Rear differential is weeping. If I crack that open there will be some variety of limited slip that makes its way into there

6. The heater controls are literally hot wired under the dash. I need to make a switch panel for those

Thats all for now, going to try and get the steering squared away so I'm comfortable driving it more than about 1/2 mile. Still pretty rad

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2021, 02:52:21 PM »
Just an FYI; looks like your massive CV failure was simply due to the aftermarket inner joint housing, which is quite a bit shorter than the factory unit; and as such they pull apart easily.
George G.
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Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2021, 03:18:34 PM »
Thanks for the info! Hopefully the new one doesnt do the same thing, but I get the feeling it may since it is likely the same inner housing.

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2021, 06:03:20 PM »
There's an older aftermarket axle on EvilBay right now with the correct inner joint.  Here's a link if you want to see what it should be:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294189357687?hash=item447f0d5a77:g:YnMAAOSwW2ZgqeCi

George G.
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
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Online vangremlin

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2021, 07:51:26 PM »
I'm sure lots of the members on here would be interested in seeing how they were able to swap in the V8 while also keeping it 4WD.  If you can post some pictures of how the front axle is attached that would be great.  Thanks!
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Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2021, 09:33:57 PM »
I'd love to see that, too!!   Looks like the front diff is mounted almost 3 inches lower than factory; and that accounts for the less-than-optimal front axle shaft geometry.  But also means the suspension could be raised 2 or 3 more inches with no issues (raising would actually improve the axle geometry!).
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
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Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2021, 02:16:20 PM »
I'll add some pics when I get home from work tonight. Havent looked real close at that particular part yet. Being new to these cars I'm still learning how they are put together.

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2021, 10:43:31 AM »
Well, I would have had some pictures of how the differential is mounted, but I spent most my evening fighting with the pitman arm replacement. Anybody have any tips/tricks on replacing that? I have both ends loose/free, just need to get it to come out...

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2021, 01:20:22 PM »
I usually loosen/remove the steering box mounting bolts as needed so it'll pivot a bit.   Good luck on the pitman arm longevity - they usually don't last very long - the aftermarket units seem to be somewhat low-quality IMHO.
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
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Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2021, 03:54:21 PM »
Thanks for the info, I'll give that a shot. Yeah, at $12 I'm not so convinced this Mevotech is going to last all that long... Has anyone tried converting to an XJ Cherokee unit or are they not very similar? Was just curious since it seems like quite a few of the XJ items can be swapped over. Also, other than prothane are there any other good sources for sway bar bushings? Would like to stick with rubber if at all possible.

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2021, 07:09:16 PM »
an xj  gear is compatible do some searching as we were recently talking about this I also did this.



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Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2021, 08:06:02 PM »
Re the sway bar bushings; your Eagle should have a 1" sway bar (AMC's came with 3/4", 7/8", and 1" bars over the years).  The only AMC-listed bushing still readily available is for the 7/8" bar (Moog K3168 etc.) -- but that can be made to work (the 1/8" difference isn't much; so just squish 'er down!).   End Link kits (as I'm sure you've noticed) are easy to come by.
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 11:01:32 AM »
An update:

Finally won my fight with the pitman arm replacement. Thanks to AMC of Houston for the tip. Wound up having to undo one end of the steering damper, and loosen the bolts to the steering box. That was definitely the cause of most of the sketchy steering, other than needing an alignment the steering has definitely improved drastically! No pics of the replacement, was too busy fighting it...

Next up I took some pics of how the V8 conversion was done while still maintaining 4wd. Best I can tell it looks like some custom engine mounts were used, and the differential was moved down. Looks like the subframe still bolts up in the factory locations, and I didnt see any spacers between the subframe and the unibody.

Engine mounts:




Front axle mounting:








Also, looks like I'm in for another CV shaft replacement... Might try and find a boot kit for that one. Or is it worth just putting another S10 one in?


Also discovered that the transmission kickdown linkage is not hooked up to the carb... That Lokar cable should be hooked up to something!


Today I picked up a Holley 20-40 trans kickdown stud kit at the local O'reillys andhooked up the kickdown cable. What a difference that made! I also ordered in some front swaybar bushings as well (Thanks again to AMC of Houston). Next up on the list:

1. Fix boot on passengers side front CV shaft

2. Figure out how to make the HVAC do something other than blow hot air out of the floor vents

3. Get the coolant temp gauge working

4. Check timing and carburetor tuning
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 11:07:02 AM by V8Eagle »

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2021, 01:09:49 PM »
Thanks for all the pics!!    I was wondering if the diff was hung from the engine (like the original 6-cyl), or hung from the cross member somehow.   Now I know!
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2021, 08:04:25 AM »
Thanks for all the pics!!    I was wondering if the diff was hung from the engine (like the original 6-cyl), or hung from the cross member somehow.   Now I know!

Could you enlighten me? Is mine hung off of the cross member now or still off of the engine? Having never looked at a stock ones of these cars I'm still learning. Thanks!

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2021, 01:20:43 PM »
From your pics it looks like someone made some diff-hanging bracketry and welded it to the cross member.   The Eagles factory front diff setup was hung completely from the engine.
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2021, 11:43:28 PM »
Thanks! Yep that is definitely the case, I spent some more time staring at them tonight. The way that came about was quite the story... I drove the car into work today for the first time, it was kind of the maiden voyage for it. I noticed that ever since I bought the car that I got a nasty drive line clunk when I went from park to drive or drive to reverse or vice versa. Felt like a super sloppy u joint on the driveshaft, but worse. On my way home from work today I started getting some constant driveline vibration, and it was getting worse. I stopped by a buddies house to show him the car, and he heard the clunk as well. While I sat in the car and went from park to reverse, he watched the underside of the car, and lo and behold the entire from differential was rocking like 2 inches up and down! I nursed the car home after that, and dug into it tonight. What I found was pretty sketchy. 3 of the 4 front differential mount bolts were loose. I tightened those down and took it for a spin, things improved dramatically. While I was under there I also found a few other things:
1. Installed those 7/8 sway bar bushings. Definitely too small, but they fit halfway decent. We will see how long they last.
2. Right front wheel bearing is bad. How much of a job is it to do those?
3. Found the exhaust leak, it's on the passengers side header collector where it connects to the downpipe. Going to probably have to have an exhaust shop help out with that one.
4. Unfortunately found some rust. The front upper control arm mount on the drivers side (mount farthest to the rear on that UCA) on the shock tower is pretty bad. Not much metal left. Has anyone ever done a repair on the sheet metal there? I think I read somewhere that that area was a common place for rust.

Going to see a buddy on Sunday that knows alot more about carbs than I do, hoping to get a good tuneup on the ol' girl.

Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2021, 02:02:37 AM »
About the clunk; also check the transmission mount.  When those go south, the whole back of the tranny will jump up when you stick it in gear.

For the bearings (once you get the hub assembly out of the knuckle), its easiest if you have a small hydraulic press to disassemble/reassemble bearings and axle flange.  But it can be done (not easily!) with a big hammer and a fat brass punch.   Be sure to NOT lose the spacer between the hub and the CV joint.  Sometimes they stay with the hub, sometimes stay on the outer CV, sometimes just drop out and are lost if you don't know its supposed to be there!   Take a look at the parts manual for the hub assembly, and you'll see it (the parts manual is in the Den's Eaglepedia somewhere).   If the bearing case (the outer hub piece) is wasted somehow, Crown is repopping them.
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2021, 10:40:10 AM »
Another update: Yesterday I threw the car on a uhaul trailer and headed over to a friends place to give the car a bit of a tune up. This is my first vehicle with a carburetor, so I had much to learn. We wound up fixing the following:

1. Timing was ~15 degrees retarded at idle.. It was literally off the scale. We dialed it in to 8 degrees retarded, the car really liked that

2. Good news is the car makes excellent vacuum, so no real vacuum leaks to track down

3. One of the PO's installed a new distributor, thankfully it is HEI. Looks to be a GM style distributor. We opened up the cap, the rotor and points all look very good. We also checked firing order, that looked correct as well. It has both mechanical and vacuum advance. We checked the vacuum advance with a vacuum pump and it works great.

4. The carburetor is a 4 barrel Holley street avenger 600. It has an electric choke and a linkage for a Ford kick down cable. The choke was stuck partially on, we were able to rotate the cap around to block out the choke for the time being, since its not hooked up. The car also really liked this change. I also went back and adjusted the kick down cable properly. Shifts are much more natural now, feels like it should.

5. Once we were finished, the car went from an idle of like 1100 RPM (Before) to 650 RPM (After). Much more reasonable. The car is also much smoother at idle, and starts better. Overall a very successful day, and I learned a ton.

The next things at the top of my list to fix (in order of greatest annoyance lol):

A. Fix the driveline clunk that still exists. This may lead to a deep rabbit hole that involves re-designing the differential mounts..

B. Rust repair on the drivers side front upper control arm mount, with additional bracing that comes up from the frame. Replace the upper control arm bushings while I'm in there on both sides.

C. New passengers front wheel bearing and CV shaft

D. Make the dang climate stop blowing hot air all the time, even when it doesn't have any power hooked up to it..

There is more on the to-do list, but those are the big important items. Sounds like most of the front end is coming apart here shortly...

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2021, 10:42:54 AM »
Some updates from last night:

Started tearing down the front end of the car. Started on the passengers side since it had the alleged bad wheel bearing. Tore everything down, good news is that the car does indeed have new brake components on it. It could use new soft lines however. Is there somewhere that sells those? After removing the brakes, I was able to get down to the wheel bearing. It is definitely in rough shape. Sounds like a bunch of rocks spinning around when you turn the spindle. So, I'll be working on that. I remember seeing a couple of threads that laid out what parts are necessary. I was also able to get a better look at how the front differential is mounted. It could use some improvement. Looks plenty strong enough, however I think it is dropped more than necessary for pan clearance. I think I'm going to try and raise it by about an inch for better ground clearance and to make it so that the CV shafts aren't at an upward angle at ride height, ideally I would like them to be straight at ride height. Between that and fixing the rust near the drivers side UCA mounting points I have a couple of fairly intensive fab projects ahead of me.

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2021, 12:23:59 PM »
For your parts needs, RockAuto is your friend!!
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2021, 10:23:06 AM »
Yep, I am a frequent customer there haha. Ordered up the rubber brake lines (both fronts and the center rear) along with most of the wheel bearing parts I needed. I decided to order new outer cages and everything for the wheel bearings so I dont have to mess with trying to press out the old bearings. Thanks for the tip on the crown re-pro's.

Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2021, 10:00:42 PM »
Alright, update is overdue.

I have been busy tearing the entire front end of the car apart lol. I removed the brakes, spindles, and CV shafts the other day going after the wheel bearing on the passengers side. Wheel bearing was definitely in a bad way. I ordered up all the parts to build up a new one, since they don't make them pre-assembled anymore.. Yay...

Here are some pics of the tear down. Tonight I finished the removal of the upper control arm, spring, and shock on the drivers side to discover the full extent of the rust.


 








Captain, there is holes in my ship!



So, a relatively unfortunate find. But, I will fix it. It is a common spot that these cars rust, due to being right below the brake fluid reservoir/master cylinder. My theory is that the brake fluid corrodes the paint and primer over time in that area, and the above happens. Thankfully the passengers side does not suffer the same fate, it is really clean. So, I'm going to go and pick up some sheet metal and box out that section to reconnect the supporting areas. There is a lot of good metal around the area, so I don't think it will be too big of a task. Timeconsuming, but not rocket science.

Other notes from the tear down, I found a couple of items. The drivers side shock mounts were really loose (seems to be the theme on this car...), the upper control arm bushings are completely shot (kind of knew that one already), and the front shocks are also pretty sad. So, by the time I'm done I'm hoping this thing will be de-sketchified, at least in the front end lol. I have a big personal trip coming up (taking the camper out to glacier and then Yellowstone), and then another 2 week work trip that departs as soon as we get back home. So, updates will likely be slim over the next month or so.

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2021, 10:46:28 PM »
Ouch; that's some big open spaces!!!    Most would just recycle the whole car in this case.   You're a better man than I !!!!
George G.
'81 Eagle Sundancer
'85 Eagle Waggie
1960 1902 Rambler Replica
'64 American
'70 AMX (Big Bad Blue), '70 AMX (White)
'77 Gremlin
'78 Pacer Coupe, '78 Pacer Wagon
'79 Pacer Wagon
'73 Jensen Interceptor
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo
'98 Aston Martin DB7
'09 Nissan Titan
'10 Nissan Maxima

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2021, 03:07:56 AM »
Thanks for all the pics!!    I was wondering if the diff was hung from the engine (like the original 6-cyl), or hung from the cross member somehow.   Now I know!


Here you can see my version of that...




American 440 Hardtop, American 220 2d (x2), American 330 4 d, American 330 Cross Country(x2), American F/EX Gasser, AMC Eagle STW (x4), AMC Matador Coupe Oleg Cassini(2x), Hornet 2d (x3), Willys Jeepster 1950, Jeep Cherokee 2d, Rogue 1966-SCRambler Replica
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Offline V8Eagle

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2021, 01:47:54 PM »
Hello everyone,

Have been on a personal trip for the last 2 weeks, and now on a work trip for another 2 weeks. So, progress has been fairly slow. I dropped all the front wheel bearing supplies off with a shop when I was home for a couple of days so those will be ready when I get back. From there, I plan on installing the new front wheel bearing, and fixing up the pictured rust spot then POR-15ing that area so no further rust develops. Another thing developed when I was home for a few days, I had the chance to buy another V8 wagon of a different variety, a '94 chevy caprice wagon. So, unfortunately a member of the stable must go. Once I get the eagle back together I will be putting it up for sale, so if you are interested feel free to contact me.

Offline TheBirdman

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2021, 04:09:35 PM »
Oh man, glad to see more eagles getting some work done, but I gotta say, that CV angle is downright horrendous, if anyone wanted to gamble it like that they should bring spare CV shafts. Dropping the center section that far without dropping the subframe too is a recipe for wrecking CV shafts, and it probably doesnt help your alignment/steering problems either. Good luck on those rust spots too, like its been said, that type of front end rot is usually when someone would be looking for another eagle to transfer their parts into. Make sure you tear out any soft metal, clean it out really good, and fabricate reinforcements for everything thats no longer connected. These things flex pretty good off road as is, without massive pieces of missing structure.

Also as a personal tip, Id stay away from POR15. Any sort of rust encapsulator really, especially with rust as bad as yours, it tends to form a scab and trap moisture underneath, accelerating rust. Id suggest cleaning out all rust you can within reason, knocking off the scale, using a rust converter, like VHT rust converter or 3m mar-hyde rust converter (dont use rustoleum rust reformer, its trash), then painting over it and slathering the whole area with some kind of grease or wax, like fluid film, to keep the moisture and salt away. Ive fixed all the rot holes on my eagle this way, and I daily drive it through the south dakota winter, its held up pretty well.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 04:11:47 PM by TheBirdman »
83 eagle wagon 4.0

Offline Canoe

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Re: V8 Swap '84 Eagle Wagon
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2021, 11:59:05 AM »
...
Also as a personal tip, Id stay away from POR15. Any sort of rust encapsulator really, especially with rust as bad as yours, it tends to form a scab and trap moisture underneath, accelerating rust. ...
That's my experience with POR15 too. POR15 has failed, and soon, with every application I did - except for on aluminum (carb). And that's when using their degreaser too. To use the POR15 up, I mixed it with micro-spheres, and it made a credible body filler. That started rusting too, but at least it lasted ~five years.
 
I've had a mix of works & doesn't work, with the rust converters. On the same vehicle or even just inches apart. No idea why the variance in results.

Getting great results with Fluid Film.

 

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