AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Mighty 258 => Emissions/Vacuum Systems => Topic started by: amc78concord on March 19, 2011, 10:29:59 PM
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Well, after my new heater core was put in, I decided today to try to fix any vacuum hoses that might not be right...(which goes back to my lovely valve cover replacement pandemic). So I took my Dad's MINT '87 Eagle Sedan and parked it next to my Woody wagon side by side so I could go from engine to engine to compare hoses... AND WOW... there were SO MANY hoses that were completely put on wrong, and just some that didn't go anywhere in the thing. Just the only the thing is that my Dad's '87 Sedan has a few different things than my '83 on a couple hoses. Was the vacuum setup different from '83 to '87???
On my '83 Woody Wagon there are hoses that come from the driver's side fender wall below the 4 wheel drive vacuum canister and I don't know where they go??? On my Dad's '87, there is plug right there where those lines would have gone through the fender wall... What the heck? Then I notice that there is some round spherical looking thing next to the carb, and it has a vacuum line going to one of the holes in the air cleaner. My '83 doesn't have that...
There must be a difference in how they ran the hoses...but I copied everything (the best I could) from my Dad's '87... and it runs LIKE CRAP... But yet, it seems to be a CONSISTENT running engine... it sounds like it has an over-sized camshaft in it and runs almost like a V-8....But when I put it in gear it doesn't want to stay running.
So if I copied everything from my Dad's '87, shouldn't it run right? It can't be that big of a difference...maybe timing needs to be adjusted? Because it was timed when all of the vacuum hoses weren't in their right (hopefully...) spots.
Can anyone possibly help me out here?
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There are differences between the years and even how they were equipped. We have the engine vacuum diagrams for the different years/variations in the AMC Eaglepedia. Please NOTE these are for the engines only, and do not include select shift, cruise control and other non engine vacuum connections. You have stop and shift vacuum plumbing which is also different from your dad's '87 shift on the fly and I think you already found that plumbing to be different. I believe we have the stop and shift diagram in another spot in the Eaglepedia. And, it seems you have the variant where the vacuum storage canister, a metal one, prone to rust, is inside your fender. I have seen cars from the same years have this setup and ones like mine, an '82, which have the plastic one right next to the charcoal canister. I don't think we have ever figured out why AMC did the metal one inside the fender and the rhyme or reason why you find different set ups on the same year cars. At first we thought it was a Kenosha vs. Brampton difference, but I think we got that one disproved.
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what i am doing is gutting every vacuum hose I see with the exception of the vacuum advance. Future plains is full time 4 wheel drive so i can make a patch panel for the dash. the WRX killer will be born
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Shouldn't your have a diagram under the hood on the emission control sticker?
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what i am doing is gutting every vacuum hose I see with the exception of the vacuum advance. Future plains is full time 4 wheel drive so i can make a patch panel for the dash. the WRX killer will be born
Keep the one to the brake booster too, other wise you will have a TRB killer :)
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what i am doing is gutting every vacuum hose I see with the exception of the vacuum advance. Future plains is full time 4 wheel drive so i can make a patch panel for the dash. the WRX killer will be born
Keep the one to the brake booster too, other wise you will have a TRB killer :)
oh yeah, I forgot I kept that one too ;D
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I threw many of them out, but kept some:
Advance mechanism
Brake booster
PCV
4WD
Cruise control vac canister
Heater valve vac canister
Purge canister
The dual CTO for vacuum advance by manifold to ported and EGR is gone.
So is the EGR and the smog pump system.
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So the engine doesn't need all of these vacuum lines to run good?
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While it technically doesn't need them, it won't run better than having them hooked up correctly, plus it will keep your emissions down, and your car won't be illegal. I have all mine hooked up to factory spec and it runs great.
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I made of video of my car and how it runs...I'm completely baffled. Everything was put where it is SUPPOSED to go, all according to my Dad's 87 and then double checking with a vacuum diagram here from the Nest.
Please take a listen, and tell me your thoughts.
Click this picture to view.
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/th_100_5362.jpg) (http://s902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/?action=view¤t=100_5362.mp4)
Also...about the hose that comes from the driver's side fender wall. Where does it go? Can anyone shed some light on this, please? I cannot find it on the diagram either... It goes through the fender wall and then is visible in the wheel well and it's going up to the front of the car. Is it just pulling in outside air? If so, for what?
The hose, has a "Y-Connector" on the end to go to 2 different places... ???
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/100_5364.jpg)
Where it goes through the fender wall below the 4 wheel drive canister
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/100_5365.jpg)
The other side of the fender wall, where do these lines go ???
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/100_5366.jpg)
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Vac hoses comming from the fire wall will be for either the 4x4 shift motor, Air conditioning bypass, or cruise control.
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Vac hoses comming from the fire wall will be for either the 4x4 shift motor, Air conditioning bypass, or cruise control.
You said fender wall not fire wall, sorry.
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The metal lines go to a metal vacuum storage canister inside your fender. You have to pull the inner fender plastic liner out to get to it. It could be one source of your problems if it is rusted out. So your storage tank for 4WD is on that side? Hmmmmmmmm, mine is on the passenger side.
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So your storage tank for 4WD is on that side? Hmmmmmmmm, mine is on the passenger side.
On my SX/4, it's on the passenger side as well..I just thought that was because it was a 4 cyl...
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One of those unexplained, yet, quirks about these cars.
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Do you think it may be timing though?
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Never hurts to check timing. But, timing is dependent on no vacuum leaks and/or bad vacuum circuits.
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Checking timing never hurts. It could also be clogged jets or poor fuel mix/delivery. I would guess something vac related. Try this, its a pain, but has helped me solve vac issues on multiple eagles; Buy a couple 5 dollar vac cap kits, Disconnect all your vac hoses at the carb and manifold, cap them all, and see how it runs. If it clears up, plug them in one line at a time until you find the suspect vac circuit. Then run that circuit back line by line. you can use pliers to pinch each split one at a time. This method is time consuming, but works like a charm.
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Yes it could be timing.the timing advance is som ewhat comtrolledby the computer.
Best bet is understand what every vac line does.
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Since the vacuum storage canister have a tendency to rust out, I would start by pinching the hoses going through the fenderwall. If that fixes it, probably a rusted through canister. Also, do you have a vacuum gauge? They are an excellent tool, and can tell you if you have a vacuum leak.
The hose, has a "Y-Connector" on the end to go to 2 different places... ???
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/100_5364.jpg)
Is that green whetherpack connector in the middle of this pic unplugged? Also, does that vacuum line above the break booster just go to nowhere?
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Since the vacuum storage canister have a tendency to rust out, I would start by pinching the hoses going through the fenderwall. If that fixes it, probably a rusted through canister. Also, do you have a vacuum gauge? They are an excellent tool, and can tell you if you have a vacuum leak.
They can also help diagnose basic timing issues. Good advice, get a vac gauge.
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Is that green whetherpack connector in the middle of this pic unplugged? Also, does that vacuum line above the break booster just go to nowhere?
The green "Weatherpack" connector goes nowhere. I don't know where it is supposed to go :(
Also that piece of vacuum line above the brake booster comes from the inner fender... which right now doesn't go anywhere because I don't know where those lines go to... this is what I'm stumped about because of it going through the fender... I probably didn't make it clear enough when I posted the picture of me holding up that vacuum line...That line is from the inner fender well..
(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac224/amc78concord/Hose.png)
I also hear a LOVELY hissing sound when the car is running...which leaves me to believe there is vacuum miscue somewhere..
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If you can hear a hissing you definitely have a leak somewhere. Make sure any unused/open vacuum lines get capped or plugged. Then what you can do is take a can of carb cleaner and spray around where the hiss is coming from, if the engine starts to idle better, then you have found a general location of the leak.
Another thing to try, remove the hose from the brake booster and cover it with your finger. If it idle improves, your brake booster is probably leaking.
Not sure if it's the that connector, but the wide open throttle switch on the passenger side of carb uses a green weatherpack connector.
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I'm at my school auto shop today with my Wagon. After about 5 minutes I found where the hissing was coming from. It was a a connector on the intake manifold. I tried putting that to the hose that "went through the fender wall." Well as it turns out, that wasn't it because it would make the car backfire and run really terrible. Then I found out that the hose "that went through the fender wall" is really a 4 wheel drive hose from the vacuum storage canister...and doesn't go through the fender wall.... :P I didn't follow the hose correctly. But my 4 wheel drive ingages just fine, I don't know where it is supposed to go though. I checked diagrams and that line on the diagram goes nowhere... ??? So I just plugged it. And I plugged the line that is coming from the manifold. It runs a lot better, but has that hippity skippity fluctuation at times... then when I put it in drive it's a little worse. Something still isn't right, but its a lot better.
Oh, I also checked the timing. It's right on the money...
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Ahhhhhh so that's the 4WD vacumm canister,lol, I have my supply vac for the heat valve hooked there, it works : ) So now I see I need to look for the other elusive canister that is actually for the 4WD.I wondered why there wasn't 2 ports on that plastic one !!Right now all of my 4WD vacumm lines are out except for the triple one from the switch through the firewall. The rest were either melted or cut or just funky. I found some black line that is an exact match for it , thinking of makeing some different colors up useing the SEM paint......
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Interesting they used that concealed one for 4WD on some and the plastic version, on the other side for others.
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Interesting they used that concealed one for 4WD on some and the plastic version, on the other side for others.
Ya, weird... But when you own an Eagle you gotta be expecting that...
At least it makes our lives more interesting trying to figure it out ;D