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  • September 15, 2019, 12:33:03 PM

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Author Topic: Pinging  (Read 258 times)

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Offline AMC of Houston

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2019, 01:26:50 PM »
Re the overheating; wonder if someone put a V-belt water pump on a serpentine-belt engine (or vice-versa).  Pump would be spinning the wrong way then.   Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that.
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Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2019, 04:59:06 PM »
A lean motor runs hotter and a mistimed motor can run hotter (either retarded or advanced).



Manitowoc WI

Offline MIPS

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2019, 08:48:01 PM »
Did the 86 year have a weighted mechanical advance in the distributor? I've seen the weights stick and cause an incorrect advance.
Also if you are still running the Carter and presumably the computer you cannot adjust the fuel mix without the computer cancelling it out. Is the stepper currently set to full-rich because either the O2 sensor is detecting or is stuck in a hard-lean condition?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 09:10:55 PM by MIPS »

Offline zeebo76

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 12:45:36 AM »
Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  I’ve got a few updates to my situation, I’ll try to respond as I can to all those who have offered suggestions.  This is going to be a long one...

I think everything that’s happened to the car up until now (cutting out, pinging, that knock I described in the long post, also the absolutely horrible gas mileage I for some reason have neglected to mention until now) is related to fuel delivery pre-carb.  I took a while to do more research and drove the eagle for a while and the clunking got worse to the point that it would cut out repeatedly on acceleration, which also happened to feel exactly like what it did on the highway.  I bought some more testing equipment (I’m only 19 and don’t have much money or experience, so I’m taking it slow and careful so I don’t mess up), hooked a fuel pressure gauge up behind the fuel filter just in front of the carb.

The gauge flickered rapidly between 0 and 2-3 PSI when the car ran, and didn’t seem to change when I throttled her up.  Although, the gauge sprung a leak after just a few minutes of me starting to read it, so I’m not sure if it was too accurate.

Nevertheless, I decided to start fixing a few things regarding my fuel system, mainly under the hood.  Replaced the filter, replaced a few lines, bought a Schrader valve tee fitting (for easy fuel pressure testing in the future)  and installed it inline after the filter - also got rid of the weird curvy hard fuel line between the filter and the carb.  I also disconnected the inlet line on the fuel pump and blew compressed air back down into the tank.  Sounded reasonably clear, but doing that procedure brought a question to mind:

Is there a filter between the tank and the mechanical fuel pump?  If not - this car sat for about a year, maybe two, without being driven while it’s head gasket was blown.  I drove it on bad gas for a little while because I didn’t have a choice, so if there’s no filter between pump and tank it’s possible that the fuel pump has swallowed some gunk and gone mostly bad.  I know there’s supposed to be a pickup sock in the tank, I’m just not sure how it would hold up to age...  Given the reading from my questionable fuel pressure gauge, the fact that the old fuel filter still seemed to be good, there didn’t feel to be anything stuck in the line when I gave it a good squirt of compressed air, and I couldn’t spot a fuel filter under the car...  I’m leaning toward the pump being my issue.  It looks original, and if it IS bad, I could’ve just been leaning out this whole time and not known it until the car started sputtering.

I’ll work on the car some more tomorrow, and after I can get the fuel pressure stabilized I’ll work on resetting the carb to IS-12E standards.

ANYWAY, onto the responses.

Did the 86 year have a weighted mechanical advance in the distributor? I've seen the weights stick and cause an incorrect advance.
Also if you are still running the Carter and presumably the computer you cannot adjust the fuel mix without the computer cancelling it out. Is the stepper currently set to full-rich because either the O2 sensor is detecting or is stuck in a hard-lean condition?

I’m not sure if the advance is weighted, but a few months back I did  pull the distributor off, clean the advance mechanism, and verified its operation.  Not sure if it’s proper though.

I am still running the carter WITH computer, BUT I have adjusted the fuel mix and it definitely makes a difference.  I can hear the car’s idle change when I fiddle with the screws, and after I found out that I didn’t have one of them set right I adjusted it and the idle went from choppy and low to a better sound and feel.  I’m not sure about the stepper motor, how to tell what it’s set to.  Carbs are still new to me - the oldest thing I’ve worked on before this is my ‘89 Cherokee, and it has port injection.  Waaay simpler.

A lean motor runs hotter and a mistimed motor can run hotter (either retarded or advanced).

I’m pretty sure I’m running lean.  Would LOVE to have a method of actually checking if I am or not, but I’m not sure how.  However, I’m only running 12 BDC at idle, and the advance bumps it higher depending on RPM’s.  I don’t think that’s far enough off to cause issues related to mistiming.  I do have misses on different cylinders from time to time, however.

Re the overheating; wonder if someone put a V-belt water pump on a serpentine-belt engine (or vice-versa).  Pump would be spinning the wrong way then.   Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that.

If the pump were spinning the wrong way, wouldn’t that cause a MUCH higher temp?  From the readings my infrared thermometer has been giving, I’m running 160-190 at idle.

Come to think of it, I am having issues to get my heater to blow warm even after I bled my system, and there was a fair amount of residue in the line leading to the heater core...  Too much for my comfort, especially because that’s a brand new heater core.

EDIT:  I forgot to mention this, but I can actually feel the fuel line pulsing when she’s running.  Not sure if that’s normal or not, but since the gauge flickers too I’d take that as a sign that my gauge isn’t bad but that there is in fact a delivery issue.  There doesn’t seem to be a pressure regulator anywhere either, which is odd to me - but I guess that since this isn’t exactly a high-pressure application like fuel injection is it isn’t really necessary.

EDIT EDIT:  Last edit, I promise!  I’ve heard some rumors about 1986 eagles having the option for a crappy transfer case, or something.  I took a look at the identification plate on mine and I have an NP128 AM.  Is this the good kind, or the bad kind?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:10:50 AM by zeebo76 »

Offline zeebo76

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 08:51:52 PM »
Picked up a new fuel pump today, installed it, and ran it for a few minutes.  The gauge told me that the pressure was steadier and a touch higher, but before I got to actually drive it I noticed a fuel leak coming from the pump itself.  No bueno.  I tried removing the fitting that the leak was coming from but I guess it’s integral to the pump or something because it would never budge.  I ended up bending the whole thing.  Waiting for another replacement pump tomorrow, it’ll be covered under warranty.

Offline MIPS

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 10:00:03 PM »
Quote
Is there a filter between the tank and the mechanical fuel pump?

Depending on its condition, there should be a sock on the inlet tube in the tank. For the 82 year at least there shouldn't be any other filters between the tank and pump but it doesn't hurt to install one before the pump anyways in case the sock fails or you have loose deposits in the fuel lines.

Quote
I am still running the carter WITH computer, BUT I have adjusted the fuel mix and it definitely makes a difference.  I can hear the car’s idle change when I fiddle with the screws, and after I found out that I didn’t have one of them set right I adjusted it and the idle went from choppy and low to a better sound and feel.  I’m not sure about the stepper motor, how to tell what it’s set to.

Hmm, it shouldn't do that. The stepper motor is non-adjustable and can only either fail with an open winding or seize and stop responding to computer control. Optionally if the O2 sensor or its single wire has failed the computer will only sense a full-lean condition and force the metering pins into the rich position but then allowing you to tweak directly from the screws. Electronic carburetors are really finnicky things.

Offline zeebo76

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Re: Pinging
« Reply #21 on: Today at 01:14:00 AM »
Last night I pulled the fuel tank - I got all the old hoses replaced, and replaced the pickup sock too.  Put the tank in today along with it’s new hose work and the eagle started running super, super rich - a great sign, really!  The old sock was clogged, and my jury-rigged replacement is in much better condition.  Lot of the old hoses were dry rotted too...

I think my water pump is bad.  I hear a ticking that at first sounds like valves from inside the car, but it sure is awfully loud - and I don’t seem to have any circulation in the cooling system.  Small hose running from the thermostat is super hot immediately (150 F) while the rest are cooler (90-110), and the radiator is at about 70F.  After the car has run for a while all the hoses heat up to 160-180, but the radiator never climbs above 70-90 depending on the spot.  The heater blows warm either occasionally or after about 20 minutes of running/driving (after the cooling system has had a chance to warm up thoroughly).  I know I don’t have any bubbles, I’ve bled the system several times.

To MIPS:  I replaced the sock, and it made a world of difference.  Once I started her up again she plumed black, and I was able to adjust the mixture screws (screwed them shut right, then loosened them 3 full turns and seemed to do the trick) to get a good idle and exhaust feel.  So, I guess something is definitely wrong with the stepper motor.

UPDATE:  Got to take her out for a drive.  NO more hiccuping, and she has more power!  So, so much better.  Making up a list of things to do next.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:35:34 AM by zeebo76 »

 

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