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  • October 25, 2020, 01:47:48 AM

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Author Topic: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30  (Read 5015 times)

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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2020, 09:11:28 AM »
I don't understand all that you are doing but I am certainly impressed by it!  Keep up the good work!

I'm trying to adapt an Eaton E-Locker4 to the Eagle Dana 30 IFS. The E-Locker4 has four spider gears for strength, but that leaves no space to insert the poodle ring that retains the left stub axle. Without that poodle ring, the stub axle just slides out, which would be bad if it happened in the car.

I was trying to modify the Eaton to allow use of the poodle ring. I figured out how and finally got there, but the "cost" in terms of cutting a slot in the gears is too high.

So I remembered I saw a VW system for retaining stub axles that uses a taper lock. I'm going to try modifying the Eagle stub axle to have a taper lock.

To that end I found these and ordered some to play with: https://www.bmikarts.com/Right-Taper-Nut-M8-For-Steel-Steering-Tie-Rod_p_30375.html



Maybe the MFG can tell me what the taper is... but if not I can measure it. This and a long socket cap screw should make the taper lock idea doable.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2020, 09:19:07 AM »
Good work! I’m following! It seems at this point an e-clip with a “tongue” would let a tool grab it. Maybe a tongue with a hole so it could be hooked. Then it’d clear the pin block and spider gears. Also, once all this is complete, let me know where to send my locker to have it modded!  ;)

The poodle ring has a natural loop in it for a tool to hook in order to remove it from the shaft. I actually got to the point at which I could do that, BUT I have to cut slots in two spider gears to do so... And once I actually saw how big the slot has to be to do that, it's obvious that's not a good course of action.


Offline vangremlin

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2020, 01:44:51 PM »
Thanks for the simplified explanation and good luck!
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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2020, 10:27:10 AM »
The taper is 4°16’15”, which comes out to 4.271 degrees. That's not really close to any of the normal tapers...
It looks like it's designed to be a 4.25° taper

Code: [Select]
Nominal     Degrees       Deviation
4°16’15”    4.270833333   0             (what the shop QC guy measured with CMM)
4.25        4.25          0.020833333
0.037/inch  4.23795447    0.032878864   (what my dad and I measured mechanically)
7/8"/ft     4.175967665   0.094865668
4mm/50mm    4.581220085   0.310386752

Offline mick

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2020, 10:55:05 AM »
I am impressed dude! You are taking the time to think this out properly. I approve!

I am running a late model D35 Lock-Right in the stock D30 carrier. I ordered a used one off Ebay and the seller said it came out of his '94 Wrangler. When I asked what the bill of lading was on his axle he didn't know. So bought it anyways and found it wouldn't fit my AMC15 carrier. Then I remembered that the D30, AMC15, and D35 are all 27 spline by like 1.300" shaft diameter. So I took a side gear from the Lock-Right and slid it over a spare front shaft and if fit as expected. I then put the side gear in a D30 carrier and it fit. I then measured the inside dimensions of the D30 and D35 carriers from thrust face to thrust face and found they were the same. I then had my dad who is a machinist cut C-clip grooves in my D30 shafts. BAM! Locked front.

I would much prefer a selectable locker but oh well. At the time OX didn't make one for the 3.55 and down D30. I have several OX's and really like them.

The Eaton is is a LSD when unlocked right? Is that what you are after?
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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2020, 02:57:08 PM »
I am impressed dude! You are taking the time to think this out properly. I approve!

I am running a late model D35 Lock-Right in the stock D30 carrier. I ordered a used one off Ebay and the seller said it came out of his '94 Wrangler. When I asked what the bill of lading was on his axle he didn't know. So bought it anyways and found it wouldn't fit my AMC15 carrier. Then I remembered that the D30, AMC15, and D35 are all 27 spline by like 1.300" shaft diameter. So I took a side gear from the Lock-Right and slid it over a spare front shaft and if fit as expected. I then put the side gear in a D30 carrier and it fit. I then measured the inside dimensions of the D30 and D35 carriers from thrust face to thrust face and found they were the same. I then had my dad who is a machinist cut C-clip grooves in my D30 shafts. BAM! Locked front.

I would much prefer a selectable locker but oh well. At the time OX didn't make one for the 3.55 and down D30. I have several OX's and really like them.

The Eaton is is a LSD when unlocked right? Is that what you are after?

Interesting interchange. So the D35 uses 27 spline axles and the same side and spider gears as the D35? Interesting.
This whole fiasco started because there's no room in the E-Locker 4 (4 spiders) to install any kind of clip to retain the left stub axle.
The Eaton is an open diff until I flip the switch, then it locks.

I've finally cracked the code on the Eagle D30 E-Locker



The magic part is the little puck in the foreground. That is the ONLY thing that has to be made from scratch for this to work. The stub axle has to have its end cut off, be gun-drilled and have a counterbore cut in each end.





The socket cap bolt goes through from the outside of the output flange. Not shown is a Parker sealing washer that goes under the bolt head to keep the gear oil inside the diff. The socket head fits into the aforementioned counterbore in the outside face of the flange.



To install, disassemble the E-Locker to this level--that is, almost all the way.



Drop the puck face down into the factory counterbore in the gear face



Assemble the cross-pins. The pin block is upside down because the side that's down in this photo is the side I have not modified. Having the umodified side facing the puck allows me to accurately measure the clearance remaining between the puck and the pin block. This clearance is 0.022". This means that the output flange, when installed, will be able to slide in/out by 0.022". This is ok because the stock amount it could slide was ~0.040". Spider gears were not included as this is just a demo



Insert the stub axle, then install the bolt and tighten it to 15 ftlbs... Voi-la! The stub axle is retained.


Offline DAVE

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 09:37:55 PM »
I would recommend some kind of thread locker

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2020, 04:01:20 PM »
Hmm... I didn't get a response notification.

I would recommend some kind of thread locker

I don't think I'd do that. There's absolutely nothing in the use case that's trying to unscrew the bolt.

There's nothing but friction preventing the puck from turning against the end of the axle. That's fine for tightening, as I was able to see 15 ftlbs on the torque wrench while holding the output flange by hand. It did slip a little bit along the way. I thought that if the puck turns against the end of the axle while trying to loosen the bolt, just hit it with an impact wrench.

Using threadlocker may guarantee that you'd have to disassemble the diff to get the bolt out. Once the bolt cracked loose, the extra friction that the threadlocker puts in the threads would just turn the puck, and an impact wrench probably wouldn't be able to get it out.

In thinking about that case, I see that having the bolt head at the bottom of the counterbore would make that hard to deal with, so I may change up the counterbore to a countersink in order to allow access with a prying tool under the bolt head. This would allow the mechanic to put some friction against the puck to be able to unscrew the bolt.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 08:54:12 AM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2020, 10:56:24 AM »
I didn't do it on this one, but if someone wanted to pin the puck to the axle shaft or dutch key it to the gear, that would work fine with threadlocker. I'm just going by the KISS principle.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 11:23:46 AM »
So NAAAAAAAAATURALY this unit has the wrong flange offset for my Eagle 3.54 gears.

I *THINK* AMC moved the pinion over in the housing by the difference in flange offset between the high and low ratio carriers. This lets them use the 2.73, 3.06 and 3.54 gears they already had, but with the 3.73+ carrier. The 3.54- carrier then is only used with the 2.35 gears they used in the later 258 powered cars. Feh.

So I'm going to snag a 19818-020 and see if that fits.

Anyone want a 19817-010 for your Eagle? Brand new, never been installed.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2020, 08:42:44 AM »
18918 locker arrived at my dad's place today; I'll get to play with it this weekend.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2020, 10:13:42 AM »
Played with the 19818 locker over the weekend.
I pulled the ring gear off the AMC-Unique carrier. The ID chamfer on the ring gear pilot bore is ~0.100 deep, which make things a little more difficult.

I took the three units into the QC lab to measure the flange offset using a height gauge.
3.54-: 1.820 (Spec from RockAuto is 1.810)
3.73+: 1.938 (+0.118 from 3.54-; spec is 1.943)
AMC:  2.149 (+0.211 from 3.73+; don't have a spec)

On both Eatons, the ring gear locating journal looks 0.320 long.

Soooooo... 0.320" (journal length) - 0.211" (difference in flange offset) = 0.109 (overlap of ring gear on locating journal)

0.109 overlap initially sounds good, EXCEPT that the ID chamfer on the ring gear is 0.100 deep. So maybe there's 0.010 overlap, maybe there isn't because +/-0.010 is about the best confidence I have in some of those measurements, as I was eyeballing edges next to the calipers.

HOWEVER, the AMC carrier was installed with 0.030 & 0.007 (0.037 total) shims on the gear side and 0.028, 2x 0.010 & 0.005 (0.053 total) on the far side. If I drop the far side shims down by 0.040 to 0.013 or so and increase the gear side shims by the same amount, that will move the ring gear flange 0.040 closer to the ring gear, which increases the overlap from 0.010 +/-0.010 to 0.050+/-0.010... which is workable.

That means that I can make a 0.170-0.180 ring gear spacer, which can be ground from a 3/16" laser cutting.

ETA: Because I'm adding a ring gear spacer and the stock ring gear bolts are 7/8" long, I can put the assembly back together with 1" ring gear bolts, which are hella easier to find than 7/8" bolts.



« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 03:11:45 PM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: Installing an Eaton E-Locker into an Eagle Dana 30
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2020, 12:55:45 PM »
I've been thinking that since I already modified the 3.54- Eaton, I could modify it a little more and use it, then sell the 3.73+ as new in box (or maybe even return it, although I doubt it's returnable at this point).

Sooo... Some A$$hole at Eaton made the surface between the ring gear pilot journal and the "intermediate step" concave, so it's a PITA to measure. There's another curve from the intermediate step down to the main OD of the case.

The ring gear pilot OD is 4.500
The intermediate step OD is 4.450.
The diffence in ring gear offset is 0.339. The Eatons are 0.005 larger between the bearing seats than the AMC, so subtract 0.003 from the left shim and the ring gear spacer to get a spacer thickness of 0.336 to use with the 3.54- Eaton.
To the 0.336 ring gear spacer, add the 0.100 height of the ring gear ID chamfer.
The freshly turned portion of the case would need to be at least 0.436 tall.
The intermediate step is ~0.800 from the flange, so extending the reduced OD out to the intermediate step will be exactly the right thing to do.

Then I wrap the diff in 0.025 shim stock to install the spacer and ring gear.

It also looks like turning down to 4.460 would extend the new surface far enough to locate the gear on top of the 0.336 spacer, and only require 0.020 shim stock.

The circumference of a 4.450" circle is just under 14".
McMaster has 0.020 & 0.025 shim stock in 8"x12" sheets for <$20 in 18-8 SS or brass. Since I'd have to cut it, brass might be easier to keep the cut edge flat.
McMaster also has 3/4" and 1" wide shim tape at 0.004" thick, consisting of 0.002" 18-8 SS and 0.002" adhesive. Four to five turns of that would get to the right diameter. It comes 9 feet (about twice what I need) to the roll for $10-$12 depending on width. The nice thing about the tape is that I don't have to worry about it working its way out and I don't have to deal with burrs from cutting it on every edge. I'm not sure how precisely four turns of it would stack up, though.


 

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