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Author Topic: 4.0 swap with built driveline  (Read 1427 times)

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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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4.0 swap with built driveline
« on: December 25, 2017, 09:41:38 PM »
I've been posting about my progressing driveline build here:
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=22813.0

I cover rebuilding the front diff here:
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=43409.0

Cliff Notes:
'90 4.0 HO
Stock flywheel, stock clutch
'00 NV3550 transmission
NP229 T-case modded for Eagle use
D30 3.54 disco front from 4 cylinder Eagle
D44 3.54 NON-C-Clip rear axle from '87 Wagoneer
Rear disk brakes from '98 Grand Cherokee

Yet to come:
Eaton Detroit TruTrac in front diff
Eaton E-Locker in rear axle

With the 4.01 first, 2.72 low and 3.54 axles, I end up with 38.6:1 crawl ratio. That's not shabby.
I can at a later time swap in an NSG370 + NP241OR for a 63:1 crawl ratio. That's getting up there.

In this thread I'd like to discuss aspects of the 4.0 swap.

First: Fuel injection electronics
I've heard that a Chevy Blue Flame Six distributor can be used in an AMC/Jeep six by using an AMC V8 distributor gear. I will do this so that I have an HEI distributor available for future system changes.
However, my plan is to get the thing running with stock Jeep electronics.
I have a '91 or so Cherokee wiring harness.
I expect that I'll be able to rework starting system, charging system, power distribution and fuse box so that electrically the car looks like a Cherokee. I've done a lot of wiring in my time, and that doesn't scare me at all.
Does anyone have any "Gotchas" for transplanting the Jeep system?


Second: Brakes
Has anyone done a rear disk conversion?
My D44 rear will have disks from a '98 Grand Cherokee.
This means I'll need to use a different master cylinder in order to have enough fluid volume to move the pistons and have reasonable front to rear brake bias.
Is that as simple as using a Grand Cherokee master cylinder?
I already have a reman booster ready to go in.


Third: Exhaust
The stock 4.0 manifold and exhaust routing is the primary consideration when building the new differential snout bracket. The fitment is ticklish, but with enough fit/futz cycles, I'll get it to work.
I *should* be able to make a stock Jeep exhaust pipe work. However, the pipe wants to go under the transmission bellhousing. I'm not sure that's going to be a great fit with the NV3550 trans.
They used the same basic exhaust routing from '90 through '99, but the NV3550 and a new split exhaust manifold design with dual O2 sensors came out in '00. This design wraps BOTH pipes around the front of the oil sump and then merges them on the right side of the engine by the bellhousing. This is obviously incompatible with the Eagle front diff.


Fourth: VSS and Electronic Speedometer
I'll be using a Jeep speedometer drive sleeve and 36 tooth driven gear. I'll use an adapter from Jags That Run or a similar part to generate the VSS signal for my ECU.
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/SpeedSensors_Order.html
I would like to convert to an electronic speedometer as well. I see there are a couple of topics on that in this forum. Is there a definitive guide or method?


Fifth: Fan adaptation
This shouldn't be hard. The Eagle mounts the fan on the waterpump. The Jeep mounts it on a dedicated fan pulley on the right side of the engine below the A/C compressor.
The Jeep and Eagle waterpumps use different bolt circles.
Because of the serpentine drive, the Jeep waterpump pulley sits a little back from where the Eagle waterpump pulley sits.
This leaves enough room for a simple bolt circle adapter which will allow me to bolt the Eagle fan to the Jeep waterpump.


Sixth: Engine driven air compressor
Since the Jeep fan pulley will be reduced to a simple idler, I might as well do something with it.
I think I can space the A/C compressor bracket, which mounts both the A/C compressor and the fan pulley, away from the block and insert a mounting plate between the bracket and block.
The mounting plate will extend back behind the bracket several inches and will bolt to the side of one of the old York single cylinder A/C compressors.
I can move the compressor clutch up to where the fan pulley is and then drive the compressor via a shaft coupling.at the back of the bracket.
Then I have an engine driven air compressor. Because the York compressors keep their oil supply separate from the gas they're compressing, they can be used for air just as easily as for refrigerant.

Anything I missed?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:42:57 PM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline DAVE

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 12:52:39 PM »
the grand Cherokee's have the fan on the water pump centered on the engine. IIRC the offset fan requires trimming of the battery box

Online rmick

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 09:42:57 PM »
Eliminate the fan altogether and install an electric fan
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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 11:22:37 PM »
the grand Cherokee's have the fan on the water pump centered on the engine. IIRC the offset fan requires trimming of the battery box

Well on my '90 or '91 Cherokee engine, it's on the idler below the A/C compressor and has a different bolt circle than the waterpump pulley.

Eliminate the fan altogether and install an electric fan

Negative, ghost rider. The engine driven fan moves WAY more air than any 12V electric fan could ever hope to. The fan clutch reduces its parasitic impact to almost nothing.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 07:34:29 PM »
Got a machinist friend to turn the pilot bearing carrier down to 1.8145, while I honed the crank bore out to 1.8140 with a brake hone. The brake hone was basically a waste of time, BUT the result was that the pilot bearing carrier was down from 0.002 interference to 0.0005. It tapped in lightly and seated.











Offline vangremlin

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2018, 01:01:25 PM »
Nice!
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Offline DAVE

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 09:44:03 AM »
I would think the grand Cherokee master should be fine, my 96' GC has front and rear disks

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 08:54:24 PM »
I would think the grand Cherokee master should be fine, my 96' GC has front and rear disks

I have '98 GC rear brakes, so naturally the GC master cylinder would work with them, but does it bolt to the Eagle booster?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 08:54:57 PM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 10:16:37 PM »
The stock Jeep pressure plate assembly weighs 15.28# and the stock disk weighs 4.01#. I didn't weigh the flywheel before I bolted it on.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 08:51:07 PM »
451 lbs as shown; flywheel + clutch, intake & exhaust manifolds; accessory brackets but no accessories.



Bellhousing and throw out bearing support/input bearing retainer on NV3550



Ball stud for the stock throw out fork



Spring clip to retain stock throw out fork on ball stud. Don't forget this!


Offline vangremlin

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 09:00:39 PM »
Looking way cool!  Nice work!!
1981 Kammback 258 - "Pepe"
1980 Coupe 258 - "Ginger
1972 Gremlin X 304
1978 Gremlin 4 cyl 121 - sold
1964 TBird 390 - sold

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 09:23:44 PM »
I pulled the ARP flywheel bolts to 100 ftlbs with blue loctite. I need to pull the clutch bolts to 40 ftlbs, also with blue loctite before I can put the transmission on. I also need to grab a photo of the fully assembled throw out mechanism.

I think we're to the point with my dad's Chevy Eagle install that I can have my diff back. It needs another coat of paint and Detroit TruTrac install before final installation. That means I need to order the TruTrac.

Is there anything weird about the Eagle Dana 30 3.54 housing or carrier? I think I remember hearing about the Eagle front diff having a unique carrier for something but that was likely the 2.35 gears. Yes? No?

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2018, 06:03:55 AM »
The 2.35 is a unique housing.



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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2018, 02:30:39 PM »
The HOUSING, not the carrier?

That's weird.


Any comments on whether I should go E-Locker or Detroit TruTrac in the front?

I mean that from the perspective of how likely I am to break the D30 with a locker vice the TruTrac which allows some slip.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 02:36:03 PM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 09:19:32 PM »
Its the carrier, i said housing meaning carrier.



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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 09:59:16 PM »
LOL... ok. So a 2.35 can be converted to "normal" gears using the appropriate carrier in addition to the gearset.

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2018, 08:45:35 PM »
No guarantees, but i remember that being said. My search of this forum came up emptyish for that being the case though.



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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 08:01:06 PM »
Thanks!

Not super relevant to my swap because I already have the 3.54's, but 'tev.

Got the clutch bolts loctited and torqued (40 ftlbs on a 3/8" bolt!) over the weekend.

How easily to Dana 30's break? I've heard the solid fronts are kind of tough for their size.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 08:29:32 PM by The Dark Side of Will »

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 08:12:16 PM »
Why loktite the clutch bolts?  I never did, but i also eat starters, probs unrelated just asking why.



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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 08:29:16 PM »
Just for general assurance to make sure they don't back out.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2018, 09:19:28 PM »
NV3550 throw out mechanism


Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2018, 08:22:56 AM »
I've run into a similar problem with engine to transmission dowels as I had with clutch bolts and flywheel bolts... nobody has them!
The Mopar PN is J4005148. I can't get a pair for less than $25. WTF?

Carquest, Autozone, Dorman, Summit... none of the usual suspects have listings for the 2000 Wrangler application.

Ooops... HAH! I lied. My last minute search-Fu turned up a listing on Summit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dur-ad148/overview/

I found a bunch more rust than I was expecting on my target body. I'll go ahead with the swap and just run it until it breaks in half and move the powertrain to another body.
Now to order that E-Locker...

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2018, 10:11:25 AM »
Actually, I've read somewhere that the housing is machined differently for the 2.35 gears. There was a long thread with a bunch of info, but I think it was a victim of the big delete.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:14:13 AM by eaglefreek »
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1981 AMC Eagle Wagon As Seen On TV  Lost In Transmission


 

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Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 07:47:13 PM »
Oh, ok. More fun with parts I'll never be interested in.

The dowels were delivered to my dad's house today; I should get to play with them over the weekend. That's the only thing keeping me from mating up the engine and trans (I think). I'll have to re-organize the chains and set up the leveler, but that's not too hard. I need to get the chain off the A/C compressor bracket, so I can unbolt it and measure its bolt pattern. I'll mount a plate to carry a York single cylinder A/C compressor between that bracket and the block. That will become and engine driven air compressor  ;D

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2018, 08:04:51 AM »
An onboard compressor will be nice. I've installed everything except for the compressor on my Isuzu Trooper. I need to get that finished. How are you going to plumb it? Here's my setup  http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=85421&hilit=Revive&start=50#p5228538
1986 AMC Eagle Wagon 4.2L/4.0L head, AW4,NP242, Chrysler 8.25" rear.
1981 AMC Eagle Wagon As Seen On TV  Lost In Transmission


 

"I know he'd be a poorer man, if he never saw an eagle fly,
Rocky mountain high"  John Denver
Click for Fayetteville,TN Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150

Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2018, 08:02:50 PM »
Had a fun time getting the transmission mated to the engine.

AMC engine to transmission dowels have limited availability. Dura-Bond AD148 is the only part I found that does the job. Summit carries them. I snagged a pair.

At first I couldn't get the engine & trans to fully mate. The contact spring in the slave cylinder was apparently enough, in conjunction with the mechanical advantage of the throw out fork and friction in the splines to prevent me from shaking the transmission on that last 1/2".

On a hunch I unbolted the slave... it went on easy peasy.

Now 556# as pictured.


Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2018, 09:10:26 PM »
I bolted up the modded NP 229 T-case:



I *briefly* had a scare about having to pull it back off for repair because I couldn't shift it, but once I understood the force required on the linkage and the order in which the shifters had to operate, it worked fine.

The above doesn't show it, but it's on a leveler as well:



~650# as pictured. By the time I add the diff, the alternator, the A/C compressor and the air compressor, the powertrain is going to be 800#, and that doesn't even include the rear axle!

I also installed the rear output yoke with a yoke seal (It's a factory fixed yoke):




Offline The Dark Side of Will

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2018, 09:09:57 AM »
Here's the money shot from the NP229:



Dual shifters *AND* the Eagle tailshaft housing orientation

Offline vangremlin

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Re: 4.0 swap with built driveline
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2018, 02:58:44 PM »
All very impressive!  Thanks for sharing the pictures and your work with us.
1981 Kammback 258 - "Pepe"
1980 Coupe 258 - "Ginger
1972 Gremlin X 304
1978 Gremlin 4 cyl 121 - sold
1964 TBird 390 - sold

 

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