AMC Eagle Den Forum

The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: Murdoc1905 on June 12, 2018, 10:48:18 PM

Title: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 12, 2018, 10:48:18 PM
Hello all, figured I might as well start a thread since I'll be at this for a while and will definitely need help down the road. Going to be very picture oriented because pictures help, especially with me identifying things inside of the engine bay, so without further adue..
She's got 197k miles on her, all from the original owner, has a sticker for the next oil change at 199k miles so needless to say she was probably well kept. Traded to a dealer because the owner got too old to enter and exit the car easily (I'll need new hinge pins on the driver side thanks to that) dealer held it for 5-6 years then sold it to me for $750! What a steal! She starts right up the first time every time, sounds beautiful, no major rust that I can find, has a pretty bad dent on the driver side rear panel, currently working to "massage" that out with my hammers. Had a pretty bad hit on the passenger front side, not too visible but the quarter panel is pushed back a few inches, the headlight housing is broken. From my initial testing all electronics function except an aftermarket stereo system and denon amp really professionally installed actually. During my engine and partial underbody clean revealed some parts that need replacing, but nothing too major yet.
(https://image.ibb.co/kiT59d/0607181620.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hwKZ2y/0607181619.jpg)
Before and after motor clean
(https://image.ibb.co/h8aVaJ/in_Collage_20180610_095513000.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/i39qaJ/in_Collage_20180610_140813149.jpg)
Of all the Fluids, only the brake and power steering look like they even need to be replaced!
(https://image.ibb.co/i8Yu2y/in_Collage_20180610_134424921.jpg)
Issues I've found so far:

Splitting away bar linkage rod.
https://ibb.co/j7G3vJ (https://ibb.co/j7G3vJ)
Cracked driver side Steering Tie Rod End Boot.
https://ibb.co/n9bghy (https://ibb.co/n9bghy)
Nearly worn thru spark plug wire.
https://ibb.co/eopOvJ (https://ibb.co/eopOvJ)
Beginning of cracked hosed on vacuum pump? Not exactly sure what this is.
https://ibb.co/ey0VaJ (https://ibb.co/ey0VaJ)
Beginnings of cracked hose on unknown thing. Lol
https://ibb.co/feuCpd (https://ibb.co/feuCpd)
I already fixed this air flow valve? The pop rivets broke so I Drilled them out and replaced with new ones.
https://ibb.co/cyUCpd (https://ibb.co/cyUCpd)
Dry and cracked engine oil fill cap gasket.
https://ibb.co/hYRQ9d (https://ibb.co/hYRQ9d)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 13, 2018, 12:01:19 AM
hey, welcome and good luck, I also have an 84 sedan, and just finished a MAJOR restification last year. Looks like a good car. First, and very carefully, replace any and all vacuum lines. That "vac. pump" is actually the charcoal canister, good to keep. There is a replaceable filter in its bottom. Sway bar end links are available anywhere. "beginnings of cracked hose..." that is the vac. supply to your power brake booster, very important! That airflow valve is an emissions flap, that closes when car is off, opens when engine starts. If you plan to keep the car, I strongly suggest you get a TSM (technical service manual), available on ebay. If you can't find an 84, a used 82 will help almost as much. good luck! gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amarshall on June 13, 2018, 08:12:33 AM
Welcome!  It's good to see another new project getting started.  Looks like you have already lightened the car by about 10 lbs with all the cleaning you have done!  That's not fun work but it sure helps you get familiar with every little nook and cranny, well done.

I've had great luck getting advice from everybody here on the forum, so post up your questions and pictures any time.  Can you share your goals or plans for the car?  Daily driver or show queen?  Hah!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC1 on June 13, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
You even got AC with it. That was an $750. + tax option in '83. You may have to switch it over to 134a if not already done so.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 13, 2018, 04:48:37 PM
Yeah I'm really lucky that the air was included for sure! Wish I had a dedicated battery so I could test the electronics and systems more throughly but I'll have to settle for pulling my car battery and losing my radio settings every time lol. The goal for this is to make it a daily driver for sure. Not going to try to keep it bone stock, I'll upgrade any part that I replace, and maybe down the road add things to increase performance and what not. One question I have is I was thinking of turning the outside "low beam" headlights to dual high/low functioning and have the interior lights be daytime running lights anyone know of someone who has tried this?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on June 13, 2018, 05:54:46 PM
I have not heard of anybody doing the change to the headlights you're looking at.  Sounds like a fun project. 
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 13, 2018, 06:32:33 PM
If I were to be honest I really kinda want to make headlights like the dodge Demon with the air intake coming from the headlights. In my mind a rectangle headlight with led around the exterior (probably soft light, not a hard visible strip of leads with a square hole in the middle sounds awesome. It would be something I would have to custom make, but I have an autocad program and 3d printing parts is remarkably cheap and easy to find someone to make. We will see. But at the very least I do want daytime running lights.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 13, 2018, 11:43:43 PM
hi, daytime running lights are mandatory in Canada. danielsternlighting.com sells a kit to do this. But first, get the car running well, and check the brakes! good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 14, 2018, 08:05:04 AM
Absolutely, safety is always the #1 priority, the only thing stopping me from doing my brakes right now is a lack of line Wrenches and a very stubborn rusted bleeder valve bolt.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: trucker79005 on June 14, 2018, 04:07:10 PM
Nice looking Eagle! Glad to have you here. I learned a great deal of the forums this last year and hope I can help.

Brake bleeders were the first thing I attacked on my black 83. Took me most of a day. Used Freeze off alternated with kroil. Used a 6 point socket to break them loose then switched to an open end wrench..
Good luck.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mo.eagles on June 14, 2018, 07:31:10 PM
 The bar linkage is the sway bar link. You can find those on Rockauto  for $4-$8. Tie rod ends as well. Great prices and in stock.
The "vacuum pump"  is the charcoal cannister. You will want replace those hoses with fuel rated hoses.
The "unknown thing" looks like the brake booster. You DEFINETLY want to replace that hose and make sure the rubber grommet on that elbow at the booster is good also.  Good looking car . Great buy!!!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 15, 2018, 12:08:26 AM
hi, on those pesky brake fluid bleeders, first, new ones are cheap, and , to get them loose, if all else fails, get yourself a VERY small pipe wrench, as in 6" length, and that will do the trick.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 15, 2018, 12:41:44 AM
So the bleeder valves had already been stripped before I got to them, so I spent 2 days spraying with wd40 then hit it with some pb blaster, snapped the front driver side one, just at the top so there might be a chance still, got the passenger side out with little issue. Tomorrow I'm hoping to jack up the back of the car and start on the drum brakes. Thanks to all for all the information on the other questions I had, can someone link me to the right hose for the brake Booster, my eagle-Foo is not strong yet. I had a recent issue where fluid started leaking from the fill/flush connector on the heater core when I turned the heat off. I tightened the cap down, but have not yet tried it to see if it's still leaking. Brian told me a valve might be frozen open or closed? That make sense to anyone?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amarshall on June 15, 2018, 09:42:12 AM
Not sure I understand about the "flush/fill connector on the heater core"... but the frozen valve is almost certainly the heater control valve.  There is another thread going on right now with a little info:

http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=39628

Short version, there is a valve in the heater coolant lines that controls whether fluid goes through the firewall and the heater core under the dash.  The valve is on the passenger side of the engine bay near the firewall.  The valve is normally open, so fluid goes into the heater core.  When vacuum is sent from the HVAC controls, the valve should close and bypass the heater core.  The valve corrodes internally, and get stuck in the open position.

If you find that yours needs to be replaced, consider a valve from a Jeep Cherokee.  Looks slightly different, but function is the same and much cheaper.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on June 15, 2018, 10:21:30 AM
new calipers are fairly inexpensive at Rockauto if you can't get the broken bleeder out
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 15, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
Yeah I have a cart full of stuff from rock auto, once I bleed and check the back brakes I'll see what all I need to add brake wise,

That fill valve looks like it was put in by the previous owner.
Here's a pic of it, I'll get a better one when I get home.
(https://image.ibb.co/isPRny/in_Collage_20180615_093707830.jpg)
I imagine the heater control valve is just to the left of the red circle, silver with tubes going into it.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on June 15, 2018, 01:51:03 PM
Yep, that's the heater control valve, sitting to the left of the red circle. 
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amarshall on June 15, 2018, 04:11:07 PM
Ah, I see.  Based on where that valve has been placed, it should have coolant flowing through it all the time - even if the heater control valve is closed.  Strange that it would only leak when the heater was turned off.  Maybe that changes the pressure in the system just enough...who knows?

Nobody asked, but I LOOOVE RockAuto.  They have so much of my money.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 15, 2018, 04:40:55 PM
Huh, I'll have to look up how it's supposed to be set up and maybe switch it back. I wonder if there was an overheating issue? And yeah Ive got like 70 some odd things in my cart and the total is only like $300. Can't beat that!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 15, 2018, 09:55:02 PM
So messing with the stereo issue, the stereo itself works fine, I put 12v to it and it turned on and worked fine, I checked the plug with a multimeter and it only read like 4v, or 0.4v it's hard to tell exactly with the cheap multimeters. I checked the radio/cig fuse and it's fine, I get 12v from the cig lighter (that power was what I used to test the radio) still don't get sound after I hook up the radio however as the same or similar issue is happening with the amp. Only 0.4 volts getting to it and it's not powering on. The amp does not run directly to the battery as far as I can tell, I haven't been able to trace the wires successfully, but I know there are no extra positive wires connected to the battery terminal. Any ideas on troubleshooting I should do?
(https://image.ibb.co/jD6qXy/0607181655.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ca2VXy/0615181914a.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 16, 2018, 12:13:00 AM
hi, that  "fill valve" is just a "T" fitting used to do an old school engine cooling system flush. and is not necessary , replace the entire hose, and leave it out, ie, just run a complete one piece hose without that fitting.  The good news is now you know your cooling system has been flushed at some point! good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 16, 2018, 12:27:00 AM
Thanks, I'll be sure to do that. Started the car for a little bit today and it looks like it might be leaking from the heater control valve. Tomorrow I'll take it for a little drive and see how it reacts
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC1 on June 16, 2018, 09:18:52 AM
Interesting how times have changed - talking about day-time driving lights. In the 50s it was illegal to have such a thing at least in Illinois - not sure about federal laws. I think things started to change in the 60s when people turned their headlights on during holidays only. I remember seeing signs "My headlights are on for safety". I'm all for safety but I doubt that even one accident was prevented because of this. I still wonder about the dual spot-lights that I commonly see. They were seen in the lead sleds of the day (custom cars) but only one was allowed to be working. My older brother had a 50 merc & I was with him when he bought a second spot-light for the passenger side in a bone yard & drilled & installed it but made sure it didn't work.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 16, 2018, 09:51:37 AM
Haha, the more you know. https://www.motorists.org/issues/dlr/history/
I guess It was all just marketing wank.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 16, 2018, 10:44:35 AM
So took it for a very quick run today, just wanted to make sure the transmission worked fully as that was the only part I was unsure of to this point, that leak got pretty nasty, it is just an overpressure blowing by that added fill port, other than that the engine ran fine. (https://image.ibb.co/iOuRpd/0616180838.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 17, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
Looks like my luck ran out haha, have a blown or never seated properly exhaust gasket. So since I will need to be going at least that far, how difficult is replacing the intake/exhaust gasket? What other things should I replace or is worth upgrading while I'm in there?

(https://preview.ibb.co/iDCUAJ/0617180811.jpg)

Hose that got shreded, probably because of the gasket.
(https://image.ibb.co/g7kzAJ/0617180811b.jpg)

The gasket had been like that since I got it, I kept seeing smoke coming from that area but assumed it was just crud on the motor.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 17, 2018, 01:42:22 PM
hi, replacing the intake/exhaust gasket is a pretty big, though not undoable job, if you are at least somewhat mechanically apt. as to what to replace, again, any and all soft parts, especially old vac/fuel/etc hoses The intake/exhaust manifolds need to come loose together, since they are joined by the EGR tube, which you will want to leave alone, as it is a BEAR to remove. good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 17, 2018, 07:55:12 PM
Well good luck for me again, all the bolts connecting the intake and exhaust manafolds were loose, so no broken bolts lol. Wonder why the gaskets blew.. Hmmmmm. Anyway got the easy part out of the way, just have to find a way to remove these bad boys.
(https://image.ibb.co/kVMopd/0617181748.jpg)
However... In looking at the gasket closer, could the parts that are out just be to connect the exhaust gasket together? Because that's what it looks like... Lol
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:07 AM
So I am reasonably sure the gasket is perfectly fine. Chalk this up to my lack of auto experience lol. The reason it was smoking was because of the loose bolts. So I'm going to clean up what I can, then add some high heat anti-seize on the bolts and tighten them properly using the handy Epedia http://amceaglesden.com/guide/Intake/Exhaust_Tightening_Sequence I'll just have to find the proper torque specs. Bright side is I found a few more tubes I need to replace, and found a vacuum Leak that I will have to track down where it goes. Plus since it's off might as well take a good look at the carb. Is the reason people tell me not to try to take off the egr tube is because it is hard to get to? Or it breaks easy? It doesn't look too difficult to loosen, and if I can I'd like to add some anti-seize to the nuts to ensure easy removal in case something happens.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on June 18, 2018, 05:18:24 PM
Haha, the more you know. https://www.motorists.org/issues/dlr/history/
I guess It was all just marketing wank.

I'll try not to hijack this thread too much, but....

Its too bad the article in the link doesn't include any dates as a reference for DRL's.  Back in the 1960s, my mother worked for AutoCrat Safety Belt Company, which made seatbelts for Ford and GM (at a minimum).  AutoCrat got bought out by Jim Robbins, he was a big name in racing back then.  Anyways, somewhere around that time, the company introduced what were called "running lights."  They were a single light about 2-3" in diameter, with a clear lense, that were to be mounted in the center of the grill of a car.  They turned on anytime the car was running.  Because my mom worked for the company, they gave some to our family, and we had running lights on our cars at that time.  Apparently they were trying to convince the government of how much safer they made the cars, in hopes that they would be mandated, just like seat belts.  That never came to pass though. 

Unfortunately, Mr. Robbins died in a plane crash in 1966, although his companies lived on.  Here is a picture of Lee Roy Yarbrough's Ford Torino that he drove when he won the 1969 Daytona 500, with Jim Robbins name on the quarter panel.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.....
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 18, 2018, 07:01:19 PM
Very cool story, I would be very interested in seeing what the full chronological story is and what kind of research went into that kind of thing
https://www.lightsout.org/story.html
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amarshall on June 18, 2018, 07:27:33 PM
Torque spec on the intake and exhaust manifold bolts is 23 ft-lbs according to my shop manual.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 18, 2018, 08:07:27 PM
Yeah that's what I got as well, except the two exhaust bolts on the far sides says 17ft-lbs
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on June 19, 2018, 01:14:58 PM
Very cool story, I would be very interested in seeing what the full chronological story is and what kind of research went into that kind of thing
https://www.lightsout.org/story.html

I don't know that this is the same make that we had on our cars, but here is an example of a 1960s running light.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-PERFECTION-SAFE-T-12V-RUNNING-LIGHT-NICE-NOS-ACCESSORY-615/111692642212?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 19, 2018, 01:30:55 PM
Very interesting that it was installed right in the center. I wonder if the 15% of accidents includes fog. Or if it was mandatory already to have lights on during a fog. I know by me it's mandatory for rain.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 19, 2018, 09:05:35 PM
finished tightening up the bolts, somehow managed to reach them all with some ingenuity. now I just have to work on the tubes and decide if I want to rebuild the carb or just leave sleeping dogs lie.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 21, 2018, 09:12:31 PM
(https://image.ibb.co/nO2xPo/0621181810.jpg)
Look at them dirty brakes!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on June 22, 2018, 08:13:12 PM
Looks intact though, and functional however.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 22, 2018, 11:01:24 PM
Yep, I'll slowly replace the internal components over time, but for now they function pretty well.
Did some cleaning up, removed that leaky heater hose and replaced it, am waiting on vacuum tubing to start swapping bad lines out, attempting to change everything that I can to 1 size. This will probably end horribly but oh well. I also tracked down my radio and amp issue and realized why it was removed.
(https://image.ibb.co/e9rBkT/0622182029.jpg)
I attached them all and the radio "worked" the front speakers were blown, and any volume adjustment caused horrid crackling noises lol. I'm pretty sure the contacts or something on the head unit is bad as most of the dials to adjust bass mid and treb cause speakers to cut in and out. But the amp works beautifully, and the added speakers in the back still sound clean.
(https://image.ibb.co/jPW0eo/0622182039.jpg)
It's still kind of a shame to lose a period correct radio, but I'm not sure what I can do to fix it.
On a final note, out of curiosity, does anyone know what these are?
(https://image.ibb.co/i7Hj5T/0622182026.jpg)
The green and yellow things. They are on the passenger side right by the strut tower.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on June 23, 2018, 12:17:19 AM
hi, those are 10" and 4" vacuum switches. they tell the computer when manifold vac drops or rises, and the computer reacts accordingly. Sort of an early TPS, throttle position sensor. gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 23, 2018, 01:06:43 AM
Ah, I see, well that's good to know for sure. I'll definitely double check the vacuum lines going to this to make sure they are good.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 24, 2018, 10:36:51 PM
Found out the tape deck in this thing is a really sought after thing (nakamichi td-700, too bad the tape part of it doesn't work. I believe these things went for $2,000 new. Not sure what I'm going to do with it. I could try to get it serviced or I could just sell it to someone for parts. Does anyone have any recommendations on an older looking tape deck that wouldnt look like a ufo in place of this?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on June 25, 2018, 01:52:59 PM
You could maybe go with an AMC radio/tape deck from that era.  I may have one laying around if you're interested. 

If you want to go with an old school AMC radio, you could get a radio bezel that isn't all hacked up and go that route too.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 25, 2018, 02:01:24 PM
How's the maintenance on the amc radios? Just from a longevity standpoint I don't want to put an older radio in just to have a dry rotted belt snap inside and have to replace again. I'm looking into now what it will take to repair this radio since it is such a nice upgrade, plus its way easier to use what ya got than replace the whole bezel.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on June 26, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
One of the benefits of being the 2nd owner of an old car. Look at that liscense plate tag history!
(https://image.ibb.co/f7VZx8/0626181701.jpg)
Just got my shipment of hoses in, they are a little larger than I was expecting, but I'll make due.
(https://image.ibb.co/nEH3qT/0626181658.jpg)
I noticed that the grill was pushed in slightly more on the passengers side than on the driver's when I first got it (as well as the headlight assembly completely in pieces), finally got everything apart and found out it was very minimal damage to that part itself, and slight bending of the quarter panel. I was originally afraid it extended to the engine bay itself, but it's just superficial.
(https://preview.ibb.co/b951c8/0626181706.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 02, 2018, 10:58:43 PM
In putting the carb back on the engine I realized my memory on where the electrical connections go has faded a lot lol. Luckily I recorded me removing it, so I'll have to review the tapes. Still waiting on the gaskets to ship, but I can at least get it mostly set up. Drained the power steering res as much as I could. I think my ac system is completely empty, which is convenient because I need to convert it to 134a anyway. I just have to buy the vacuum pump, refrigerant, vacuum gauges, and a new ac dryer, and hope that there are no leaks.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 05, 2018, 11:42:49 AM
So I was looking at the headlamp wiring diagram, according to this the outer headlamps are wired for both high and low beams. Is this true? Or only for the 88 models? I did notice the outer headlamp plugs were 3 prong.
(https://image.ibb.co/eDOvpy/Capture_2018_07_05_09_39_52.png)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Eagleearl on July 05, 2018, 12:02:28 PM
All Eagles were wired for high and low headlights on the outside and high only on the inside. I believe all 4 headlight systems had this setup.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on July 05, 2018, 01:40:37 PM
If I remember correctly, when you turn on the high beams, the "low beam" filaments turn off.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 05, 2018, 02:10:19 PM
I see, I did test the high low beams when I got it I guess I didn't notice the outer lights brightness changing. Well that will make my ideas for daytime running lights markedly easier. I kept trying to look online and see if anyone had taken seperate high/low beams and combined them electronically to no avail. Turns out amc did all the work for me lol.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 08, 2018, 12:12:18 PM
Ok, so I've found a vacuum leak coming from the yellow vacuum switch that I had pictured earlier, according to the diagram it's supposed to come back and "T" off between the cto/purge and the carb but it looks like the cto and carb are hard lined to each other and the purge and carb are also hard lined thru a seperate outlet.
Here is the tube coming from the vac switch (tube with blue tape)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mnqFu8/0708180922a.jpg)
Here is the cto to carb line
(https://image.ibb.co/fKqgZ8/0708180922.jpg)
If all of this is confusing here is the modified vacuum diagram
(https://image.ibb.co/kSXg1o/my_vacuum_setup.png)

Is this a normal modification? or just an inexperienced mechanic seeing a problem and plugging it up however he can.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on July 09, 2018, 10:33:35 AM
if I remember correctly you would want the purge signal for the evap canister to run through the cto so it doesn't purge until the engine warms up
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 10, 2018, 10:18:14 PM
So I got it all back together and started up, she runs clean and smoothly, idles a little low as apparent when I put it in gear and try to move forwards and it dies, but easily fixed I imagine. Drives nice as well, a little slop in the steering, still smokes from the central exhaust ports, so more than likely it is an exhaust gasket issue. I know the clearances are tight, but is it possible to remove the exhaust manifold enough to remove the old gasket and replace it? Or do I have to remove both intake and exhaust completely. Have another slight issue when I turn on the headlights, the right arrow light stays illuminated. I believe this could be an indication of a bad bulb? Also when in 2wd any throttle on gravel causes the rear left tire to spin, could this be a lack of dif fluid or watery dif fluid? Or is this normal.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on July 11, 2018, 10:26:01 AM
for the right tire spin in gravel I would check the rear brake adjustments the left brakes could be dragging excessively
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 11, 2018, 11:28:14 AM
Ok, I didn't think about that actually. I did notice a slight scraping noise when I was spinning the rear tires on the jack stands.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 11, 2018, 09:34:29 PM
So I took her for an extended drive to the nearest car wash, Im hearing a weird metallic noise, almost like a chain dragging on asphalt. Sounds like a washer is rattling on a bolt or something, that will be fun to try to find. Still stalls in gear at low idle, so I'll have to figure out what screw controls that and tweak it a bit. Oddly enough after that drive the right drum brake was ~160f and the left drum brake was only ~95f so I'm not sure if that's the reason the right wheel spins in 2wd.
(https://image.ibb.co/mnC7E8/0711181923_HDR.jpg)

Is this cap supposed to be off? I know I need to update it to r134a but I think all the refrigerant is gone because there is no check valve that I can see inside the fitting.
(https://image.ibb.co/nqh7E8/0710181931.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on July 12, 2018, 10:01:08 AM
yes it should that is one of the service ports for the AC will need adapters to convert to R134A they usually come with the kits
the metallic sound could be worn out brakes
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 12, 2018, 04:45:51 PM
Alright, yeah I bought some adapters but they seemed to have disappeared lol. I'll find em some day. Not like it's July or anything. I'll check the brakes I really do need to replace them anyway, I suppose I'm just procrastinating.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on July 12, 2018, 05:41:46 PM
The idle set screw is easy. Look for the accelerator cable than there is a set screw on the bottom of that assembly. So when under the hood with air cleaner off just rotate the throttle, you should than see the set screw as a bump stop. July lol just live next to a large inland lake like me and stay close to it lol. Air conditioning is than not necessary.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 12, 2018, 07:09:06 PM
So it looks like all the screws are all bottomed out. Should I remove some of the spring?
(https://preview.ibb.co/dopMu8/0712181640.jpg)

I also believe I found what the metal noise was. I don't have a gasket that separates the air filter housing from the carb.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 12, 2018, 11:52:25 PM
hi, tuning an Eagle is more complex than most. I REALLY suggest you get a TSM. OK, three screws in the picture. The one closest to the carb is the FAST idle screw. the one next to it is the CURB idle screw. Idle is actually adjusted using the  TOP screw, that hits the SolVac. make sure this is working. Check out,  home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm  . good luck, gz   don't cut any springs!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 13, 2018, 12:06:38 AM
I'll wait until I get some kind of gasket on the air cleaner assembly before I start tweaking screws for sure. I don't think it needs a tune fully, just a bump in low idle.
https://youtu.be/9v4o_KzsGDk (https://youtu.be/9v4o_KzsGDk)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 13, 2018, 09:37:16 PM
I feel like this is supposed to be plugged into something.
(https://image.ibb.co/e1DF6o/0713181913.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 14, 2018, 12:20:00 AM
hi, don't worry about that plug, it WAS plugged into a part called the PCV Valve Solenoid, which was recalled by AMC back in the day , Again, check out the sprynet thing, all the info you need on amc/jeep 80s carb/emission controls. good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 14, 2018, 11:48:50 AM
Oh, sorry somehow I completely missed that link earlier. A lot of really great info! And in picture format, now if only someone would create a pop up version.. :P I'll go about checking all that stuff off.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 14, 2018, 05:39:56 PM
hi, glad you found it! good stuff if you plan to keep your Eagle. Remember, all of this is moot if your computer is no longer working, though I see no reason why it shouldn't be. If your Eagle is running, chances are that its good. BTW, its behind the passenger side kick panel. If for some reason its not working, believe it or not, the computer is still available at any parts store, though only the California version, no big difference, for about $190. +core. Part # OEM 79-1733.. good luck, gz
Remember, Rule #1 with AMCs, don't throw ANYTHING away, especially if you don't know what it is! :)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 14, 2018, 07:00:28 PM
Ok, sooo. According to the metering pin the engine is running lean, when I high throttle it and then release the pin will slightly wiggle back and forth, when I close off the choke for as long as I can before the engine dies it doesn't move at all. So more than likely a bad o2 sensor.
(https://preview.ibb.co/c3UDBo/0714181555.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on July 15, 2018, 06:32:20 PM
You could, but you shouldn't have too. Somthing is making her slow at idle. I am grasping here, but how is the timing?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 15, 2018, 08:10:21 PM
I'll have to see if I can borrow a timing light to see what it's at, I would have never thought it would cause that kind of an issue. I think I found a loose vacuum hose right next to the carb and zip tied it tight, but I swear it runs worse now. I also found out I ran it without the throttle spring. I got really lucky it didn't stick open or anything like that.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 15, 2018, 09:12:14 PM
ok, so I hooked up my multi-meter to the O2 sensor and heres what I got https://youtu.be/Dp0LuIdtFFU (https://youtu.be/Dp0LuIdtFFU).  I am not sure how to take it. it does move, and seem to track O2 readings as I rev the engine, but according to the manual, shouldn't it be reading .1 to .9? not .04? maybe I'm multi-metering incorrectly thou.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 17, 2018, 02:12:15 PM
So the heater control valve is leaking from the valve itself, that's gonna be fun. There is a leak in the valve cover that is slowly letting oil burn up on the exhaust manifold. That will be even more fun to remove. And the drivers seat outside edge feels like it's collapsed. Does anyone know if it's possible to direct swap the passenger and driver seats?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on July 17, 2018, 11:33:55 PM
Cannot swap different contours ring a bell at 96% memory. So i say no to seats.

Valve cover gasket is easy, if your plastic cover is not warped. It most likely is and needs a aftermarket chromedome.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amarshall on July 18, 2018, 01:01:24 AM
Agree about the seats, since the recline handles would be on the wrong side.  Flip it over and make sure the springs are not snapped, may be something like that.

A 1998 (ish) Jeep Cherokee heater valve will work, it's under $20 and you can actually find them.  They are plastic so it will look different but works the same.  I've posted about that a couple times, mine is holding up fine.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 18, 2018, 07:56:15 AM
Yeah I saw your post and I'll probably go with one of those, kinda figured the seat swap wouldn't work, I will check on the spring condition when I figure out how to remove the seat lol.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on July 18, 2018, 09:12:14 AM
I just had to repair a drivers seat the outer frame is just sheet metal channel and once it cracks it just keeps going I was able to use 3/4" angle iron and sandwiched the existing sheet metal made a world of difference from feeling like you were driving from the back seat to sitting upright also the seat breaking is a common occurence
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 18, 2018, 09:38:41 AM
Thanks for the info, luckily I happen to have some angle iron laying around. I was reading somewhere that the frame itself breaks too, I was really hoping it wasn't that
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mo.eagles on July 19, 2018, 05:44:20 PM
The cap on your compressor is needed to keep out the dirt. Those valves don't have the Schrader valve in them . If you pull off the other cap on that valve there is a stem ( with a square end ) to open and close that port.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 19, 2018, 06:08:10 PM
Aahhhh, I was thinking those were adjustment screws. How do I identify the high and low pressure sides?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: TEagle85 on July 19, 2018, 09:48:56 PM
Another sedan saved, looks solid.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 20, 2018, 09:34:13 PM
Did the eagle rot check thanks to Nightpath's video. http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=46446.0

Thankfully not a single piece of bad rust. I was especially afraid of around the Frame area but it's solid as far as I can tell. I did have a little moisture under my trunk carpet, but nothing serious at all.
(https://image.ibb.co/iSZB9J/0720181923.jpg)

On a side note, what is this for?
(https://preview.ibb.co/cvAnYd/in_Collage_20180720_193314368.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 20, 2018, 11:17:17 PM
So I removed the seat, and as far as I can see only the 2 outside springs are broken. Everything else looks tip top. Should I try to replace the springs? Or attempt to repair them?
(https://image.ibb.co/eFN4eJ/0720182055.jpg)

Sorry for blurry photo, was kinda a late spur of the moment decision to remove the seat.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 21, 2018, 12:22:59 AM
thats the fresh air vent, try to repair seats, see john bendiks post, good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: eagleman on July 21, 2018, 10:39:55 AM
Fresh air vent? Here all this time I thought it was a squid release lever. Man learn something new everyday!!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 21, 2018, 04:14:37 PM
That's what I was thinking too. But I can't imagine the 30 year old squids faired very well, and I got to thinking of the nightmare to try to find OEM AMC Squids.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 21, 2018, 08:44:01 PM
:)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 23, 2018, 11:43:04 AM
Got the seat out using the 4 bolt method to remove it from the rails. Very easy, all but the front left nut was easily accessible from the back seat. Found the 2 broken springs as pictured above, and used John B's suggestion on the hose clamps, but I don't think they will hold up very well. I got the smallest that home depot had and clearly they weren't designed to go that small, heard a snap on 2 of them when tightening and they don't tighten any more. I put 2 clamps per spring. With one "good one" per that is actually holding tight. I may switch to cable clamps as they seem to hold a lot stronger. We will see. I discovered that the main bar that runs on top of the seat was snapped as well so I bought some 3/16th bar from home depot as well and used the cable clamps to attach it to the existing bar to stiffen it up. I forgot to take a picture before I put it back in the car, but I'll see if I can get one later today.
(https://preview.ibb.co/miKEJd/0722182005.jpg)
I would like to add that for 2 of the cable clamps it was something like 90 cents vs 83 cents per hose clamp.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mo.eagles on July 23, 2018, 07:04:07 PM
The back side of the compressor is marked with dis and suc .
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 23, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
(https://image.ibb.co/b8nGG8/0723182045.jpg)

I saw this guy by the fuel tank, is this a filter?
(https://image.ibb.co/f4coUT/0709181934.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on July 23, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
its the rollover fuel shutoff valve. no longer available. If your car is running, its ok, if it fails, you can take it out of the line.  gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 24, 2018, 04:37:08 PM
Question about rock chip rust. My idea is to repaint to whole car "someday" but I don't exactly have a timeline for that at this point. Is it better to leave all the little rust spots as they are, or wire wheel them clean and put down a cheap white spray paint to seal them up?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on July 24, 2018, 05:13:19 PM
its the rollover fuel shutoff valve. no longer available. If your car is running, its ok, if it fails, you can take it out of the line.  gz

I think someone said that you can use the rollover shut off valve from a DeLorean if you want to replace yours.

https://www.deloreango.com/us/roll-over-valve.html
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 24, 2018, 06:00:23 PM
I wonder what would happen if you roll over 88 times.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on July 24, 2018, 07:03:09 PM
You'd disrupt the space-time continuum!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 25, 2018, 09:32:59 PM
I don't believe so, but does this go anywhere on the eagle that anyone knows of? I found it under the rear seat or under the front driver's seat. Can't remember.
(https://preview.ibb.co/ek1iYo/0724181645.jpg)

Also holy key wear..
(https://preview.ibb.co/dDbHto/0724181646.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 31, 2018, 06:42:34 PM
So after repairing the seat and re-installing it, I can't get it to adjust forward and backwards more than 1 click. Did I do something wrong?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 31, 2018, 07:09:15 PM
Figured it out, rails were misaligned. Good thing I forgot to route the seat belt thru anyway and already had to remove the seat again.

Looks like I have a little bit of welding ahead of me.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jMfdTz/0731181653.jpg) bottom hinge is really wallowed out.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on July 31, 2018, 08:19:31 PM
Try replacing the bushing that belongs in there. Also new hinge pin. That might be the easy fix, if not to wallowed out.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on July 31, 2018, 09:54:14 PM
it looks pretty bad, whats the stock hole supposed to be?

I think thru research its either .363 or .305 possibly.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 01, 2018, 07:51:22 PM
went to go take the Eagle to a friend of mine that has a bunch of eagles to help me work on it a bit, he was a few miles up the road but alas she couldn't make it up the 1,000' elevation change over 6 miles. in fact it only made it a mile up the road before it refused to go up hill anymore. Originally I had an Idle issue. fixing that seems to have caused a power issue.. I'm almost certain there is a vacuum leak or the stepper motor is bad because the metering pin is 100% of the time pinned forward. is there a way to test the stepper motor? like jam a 9v battery in some of the pins to make it move?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on August 01, 2018, 09:59:05 PM
You need to talk with amcofhouston he knows carbs better than anyone here. He is the in house expert.

I hope i got his name right.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 02, 2018, 02:33:15 PM
I think I'm going to try my hand at building a simple diagnostic tool. One for air fuel as well as all the other diagnostic features.
The idea is to use 2 dial voltmeter, one that is a 0-1 volt gauge for the air fuel gauge, and another that is 1-15 volts connected to a 12 pole rotary switch for the other aspects of the diagnostic port. The reason I want to try this and not just the led lights like in the other homemade tool on the sprynet site is I want to see how much voltage is going to each system to try to find power leaks. So far I'm down $45 shipped for 2 of everything that I will need, including connectors which were the most expensive part tbh. I bought 2 in case it works properly and I want to make another, or in case the $5 gauges don't work properly, which is more likely lol. I will be scrounging wire from somewhere as wire is always too expensive.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 02, 2018, 07:30:42 PM
Did a quick Check on the stepper motor on the diagnostic connector, when ignition turns on, there is no movement that I can see in the metering pin, unless it moves extremely quickly before I could see it. The voltage tests were: pin 11 = BØ was 11. 75v. Pin 14 = AØ was also 11.75v. At high idle both 11 and 14 were at 0.80 and once I kicked it into low idle pin 11 was at 14v and pin 14 was at 0.80v. There is no fluctuation in the voltages, they are pretty much pegged all the time.
since BØ was pegged at regular idle I think it means it's running waaay lean. which would account for the metering pin jammed closed, but it could point to a malfunctioning O2 sensor as from previous voltage readings the O2 never even got to 0.1v let alone 0.6v. that or there is a massive hole in the engine I am missing that is allowing a lot of extra air into the engine. but allowing it to idle fine.
Pin 10 = air temp only got down to 0.05v I'm not sure if the computer identifies this as "closed. Pin 12 = coolant temp was 13.69v so it was Open. So I'm leaning more and more that it's a bad stepper motor. But I don't know for sure.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 04, 2018, 02:16:41 PM
Sooo.. I couldn't help myself. Found this online for relatively cheap. And the best part is, someone already pre-cut it to the exact size that I needed. It's a bit tall thou. And I think the radius it moves is a tiny bit larger but all part of the fun and frustration of modification.
(https://image.ibb.co/g8Jjtz/0804181204.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/fieqYz/0804181205.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on August 04, 2018, 11:26:49 PM
hi, good luck with that new shifter. btw, your original AMC  shifter, is the SAME (with minor detail differences) as the Ford Pinto/Mustang II, shifters, available at most Ford Mustang restoration shops. Before modifying, get the thing running right. You need a "baseline" from which to work. The stock shifter is actually a pretty well designed piece of equipment. It's actually quite elegant in its simplicity. the only weak spot is the cable pull fraying,.  Pull the whole thing out, derust it (Evaporust works wonders), clean it, lube it, put it back, go drive. If you feel you need a fancy shifter, ok, your car, but ...WHY? don't fix it if it ain't broke! there's lots of other "broke" things to get to first! good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 05, 2018, 01:37:39 AM
Yeah I know I should just leave well enough alone. The shifter works perfectly fine, I really just wanted to see if I could tbh. The plan was to make something that could instantly be swapped out for old and new style shifter. I didn't want to just hack and weld things. But we will see. As of right now it's the only thing that I can try to do by myself until I try to figure out how to carburetor. Amc of Huston is helping me a bunch but still a lot to just jump into with very little car knowledge to begin with.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: TEagle85 on August 07, 2018, 03:14:37 PM
If I could give any advice from my sedan struggles I say the first thing you should do is the ECM Test bypass and run a motorcraft 2100/2150.

I had my problems with that motorcraft as well but you are going to be pulling your hair out and spending a lot of time and labor costs going in circles trying to get all that old emission stuff back in working order. And if you are waiting on others for help in that area then even more of a reason to dig in yourself and do the bypass. Its pretty easy to do and lots of info on how to do it. Once you do that you will have more confidence to start digging into other stuff.

I could be wrong, and not considering what state you live in and the laws but simplify that mess under the hood would be my number one.

It will be both a upgrade and a step towards getting the thing on its way to being reliable. If the problem is the vacuum mess then get rid of it. If the carb is giving you issues get rid of it. I know its not the cheapest methodology but its a sure way.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 07, 2018, 03:30:56 PM
Yeah, unfortunately my county is under the emissions blanket, so I'll more than likely have to keep what I have. I've read stories of emissions shops around here straight refusing you if you have an aftermarket carb without the vacuum lines here. I am going to be getting a carb rebuild kit as they are really cheap and I'll probably want to take the carb apart anyway to make sure there's no issues. I went to open up the idle bleed tubes on it yesterday and found it had already been done. This car has never left CO and it's last registration was 2012, it could be that it never had to deal with emissions but the re-built exhaust gives me hope that it was at least passing as of 2012.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: vangremlin on August 07, 2018, 06:04:29 PM
I live in Colorado also, in an area with emissions testing.  Along with the tailpipe sniffer, they also do a visual inspection.  I can't say that they always know what they are looking for, but I do believe they have diagrams or pictures of what to look for, and if the original emissions equipment is missing, they will fail you, regardless of the actual emissions. 
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 07, 2018, 08:30:47 PM
Okay, so I tore the carb apart. I'm 90% now that the stepper motor is bad. The rest seems pretty beautiful to me.
Are these supposed to be different?
(https://image.ibb.co/ei5rVe/0807181741.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/irXGwK/0807181742a.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/hFGLOz/0807181752_HDR.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/eFodAe/0807181752.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/fRYBVe/0807181752a.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/gbpkqe/0807181752b.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ipSGwK/0807181753.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/gBTdAe/0807181754.jpg)


On a side note I found the ringing noise I kept hearing in the back...
(https://image.ibb.co/dvY0Oz/0807181812.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: TEagle85 on August 08, 2018, 08:57:07 AM
I should have read a little earlier in the thread I’m sure emissions were mentioned, my bad.

Curious for states with emissions if you did a whole engine / driveline swap from a newer Jeep do they nail you for that ?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: derf on August 08, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
I should have read a little earlier in the thread I’m sure emissions were mentioned, my bad.

Curious for states with emissions if you did a whole engine / driveline swap from a newer Jeep do they nail you for that ?

Depends on the state.  Some states are easier than others.

There are rules for swapping in engines from newer vehicles.  Generally, you have to take all of the emissions stuff off the donor and keep it with the engine in the older vehicle.  So, for example, a 4.0 would have to have the factory fuel injection with the catalytic converter, O2 sensor, etc.  You can re-route the exhaust to make it fit but all of the pieces would have to be there and working.

In states like California, they're more focused on keeping it stock than what comes out of the tail pipe so its harder to get a swap approved.  Other states care more about what comes out of the tail pipe and are fine with most of what you do as long as it blows cleaner than the factory original.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on August 08, 2018, 11:42:20 AM
I have emissions here in Oregon and fortunately they only do a visual for a Cat. and then the sniffer
they used to open the hood to hook up a tach but they don't even do that anymore
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on August 08, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
That metering rod plunger looks extra-gonzo-crusty!   Was it even able to move??   Was there a spring under it like there should be??
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 08, 2018, 01:30:06 PM
Yeah it's pretty crusty, there was a spring yes and it didn't bind as far as I could feel. I've got some carb cleaner and I'm gonna attack everything while I'm waiting on my rebuild kit. So doing a quick look and finding stepper motors for like $70 refurbished.. Anyone know a place I could get one cheaper? I might try a pick and pull or something
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 08, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
(https://image.ibb.co/dWP5rU/0808181735a.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/m0TWWU/0808181840b.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/nNajkp/0808181840.jpg)
Looks like she's been thru the mill.
(https://image.ibb.co/cayRy9/0808181900.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 10, 2018, 11:01:20 PM
Finally took the cover off. Boy was that fun. In order to get the back bolt off I had to put the socket on the nut and wiggle it for about 15 min to get the crud out from around the bolt, then try to put the universal joint onto the socket then put the extension on that. It wouldn't fit any other way. The metal lines that run along the firewall only allowed me to put the thinnest walled crappiest socket on it. All others wouldn't fit between the cover and the lines. Once it finally got it pried up it looks like this wasn't the first time (kinda already knew that because of the all Rtv gasket)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gjdmLp/0810182042.jpg)
With the ac line running directly across the cover it took another 10 min just to wrestle the cover off. I can't imagine how fun it will be to do it again with rtv everywhere.
(https://image.ibb.co/nDN2t9/0810182041a.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gV0BmU/0810182041.jpg)
I'd love to say I'll get an aftermarket cover but I don't have the money for that currently. I'll see how bad this cover is, but from the looks it just seems like oil ate thru the rtv.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on August 11, 2018, 12:19:43 AM
hi, make sure you get the good gasket, Felpro #VS50244R, about $37.  don'get a cheap one!  A good gasket is better than just silicone. good luck, gz
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 11, 2018, 11:45:06 AM
I found that gasket at rockauto for $20 are there different versions of that part number? All the other places I can get it from are like $45. Amazon won't ship it to my address for some reason.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: johnbendik on August 11, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Searching this site for 'valve cover removal' will reveal many tales of misery concerning that back bolt, mine included.  You probably already figured this out, but removing the wiper motor also helps a bit.  I replaced the original bolt with an Allen key-cap bolt to make it easier to remove (and replace) next time.

I will also say that the PITA aspect of that bolt also makes a compelling case for replacing the valve cover now, rather than later, just so you don't have to screw with it again.  I'm just sayin'...

I saw some chrome-plated steel ones in the low $40's on Ebay.

JB
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on August 11, 2018, 06:15:49 PM
I will never understand the problem with that rear bolt. It honestly takes me a minute or less. None of mine had ac in the way so i know nothing of that misery. They should of had that, but i gave up on that and removed it.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 11, 2018, 07:10:41 PM
The reason I was having such a miserable time was due to these 2 tubes
(https://image.ibb.co/hFxfgU/0811181704.jpg)
They were so close to the cover I had to take the socket and slide it underneath them then over onto the bolt. Then I had to try to attach the rest. It wouldn't have been so hard otherwise.

Not to mention the entire bolt was covered in rtv which I didn't know until I finally got it out
(https://image.ibb.co/gzLcT9/0811181705a.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: amcfool1 on August 12, 2018, 08:00:58 PM
hi, that valve cover gasket is available from Sumitt, should also be able to order it at most part stores. gz its worth the price.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 20, 2018, 11:45:00 AM
So currently, I got the carb re-built, hopefully that fixes the issue I was having. Valve cover is still off, working on cleaning it up and getting it back on. I know it's a short term fix but for now I'm going to throw the old cover back on with some rtv. The hope is to get it back together so that I can get the emissions done, or at least get a baseline to see what I need to fix to get the car registered. Once all of that is done I'll be getting the upgrades like a new cover and the better gasket. on the bright side, found out my AC system is completely empty so I am able to remove that AC line that runs over the top of the valve cover so it should be a whole lot easier to re-install it. for those stem valves on the compressor (the rods with the 1/4" square bolt) what is "closed and what is open? originally they were all the way out, I just backed them all the way in but I want to make sure which way is actually closed so when I re-charge the system I am not charging into a closed system.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: DAVE on August 21, 2018, 10:54:39 AM
okay backed all the way out is for normal operating, all the way in isolates the compressor from the rest of the system halfway between the two is for servicing or recharging.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 21, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
Thanks! I'm really glad it's empty because I don't think I could have gotten the cover back on without removing that line. I bought a cheap conversion kit for the r134 but I don't trust it, I think I'll go with a better built one. I'll also need to get a vacuum pump and refrigerant gauge cluster, but I'll gladly pay that to not have to muscle the valve cover around it. In seeing how much rtv was used to seal that cover I'm now wondering if any of it is clogging oil passages in the block.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on August 24, 2018, 08:07:08 AM
So I got the valve cover all cleaned up, cleaned the mating surface, put down the rtv threw the cover on and went to snug the bolts and found that all the driver side nuts don't even come in contact with the cover when tightened down all the way. I wonder why it leaked on that side... So I guess I'll have to get some washers to space it out. No wonder whoever did it last put 1/4" of rtv on it.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 08, 2018, 09:41:05 PM
I fixed the vacuum diagram finally, found 2 tubes that were completely clogged and fixed the missing tee's and hoses. I may need to re-thread the threads thst hold the choke flap on because of the one broken screw and the other one doesn't seem like it wants to screw in. Valve cover is hopefully attached tightly, it's not the prettiest thing in the world, but it should work. After that I need to set up the carb. How do I pump gas to the carb without starting the engine? Do I just unplug the center wire to the distributor?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 09, 2018, 01:33:17 PM
I just pour a half-cup of gas down the carb into the intake, and hit the starter.   The engine fires up for a few seconds on that, and then the pump takes over.

I have loads of parts BBD's if you need any parts (like the choke shaft or a whole air horn).
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 09, 2018, 05:57:35 PM
Would that be enough time to fill the bowl in the carb? I tried looking for the bolts that hold the choke flap at a few locations and couldn't find anything close. That and the fact that the bolt that is still good doesn't even want to thread all the way I just decided to get 2 m2 screws and dual nuts per. It's small enough to just slide thru, and with a liberal amount of locktite hopefully it will stay. (https://preview.ibb.co/g2R3h9/0909181548.jpg)
Changed all the spark plugs as well
(https://preview.ibb.co/b65X9p/0824181904.jpg)
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 09, 2018, 06:53:19 PM
Should be enough to fill the bowl - if not and it dies out, a second half-cup will do it for sure.

Yeah, those choke screws were staked on the bottom originally to keep them from coming out if they got loose.  That staked bit can booger up the threads when they are removed (or the screw will lock up and break!).   Your fix should work - you may want to stake these too just in case.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 09, 2018, 07:03:07 PM
Sounds good, I'll have to do it a bit later as this just happened putting the air cleaner back on
(https://preview.ibb.co/eAZjpp/0909181655.jpg)
I still have to buy a heater control valve as well but that isn't stopping the car from starting. Do I need the Thermal electric sensor in anything but cold weather?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 09, 2018, 09:42:12 PM
Nope; that is only for cold startup below 50 degrees F.   The circuit is normally open for above 50-degree operation, so no issue running without it.   You can probably get a new one for ~$35 (!!).   Part number is J3240825, or Jeep # 33000630.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 10, 2018, 11:36:00 AM
Good to know, I'll probably end up picking one up as I do plan to drive this in winter every so often, but for now I'll see what I can do to get it running good again
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 10, 2018, 07:19:12 PM
(https://preview.ibb.co/ktXcUp/in_Collage_20180910_170530550.jpg)
Did the timing at around 1100 rpm, couldn't accurately get it to 1600 without a dedicated tach. It looks like it's the 4th line from the bottom, no clue what any of this means so I'll probably have to look it up. Is the TES connected to the engine temperature gauge? Because my temp gauge is no longer working.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 10, 2018, 08:32:23 PM
Nope; temp gauge and TES are not interconnected.   Fry the gauge fuse maybe; or the wire fell off the sender?

May need more advance.   If I remember my timing marks, I think you're at 4 degrees.   There are numbers in there by the hash marks; you just can't see them without a mirror!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 10, 2018, 10:13:30 PM
So I rechecked the timing at 1600rpm and it was at 10 from the bottom. Not sure why it changed. I did hook up the 10" and 4" electric connections when I tested it the 2nd time thou. On the bright side the carb teardown and subsequent cleaning made the stepper motor work again. I did have a spare on standby for testing otherwise but it seems to have worked itself out. When I initially started the engine it was in high idle at around 1800-2000 and I could not even see the timing mark with the timing advance vacuum hose hooked up, after I removed it and plugged it it dropped to 1600 and the timing mark showed up at 10.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 11, 2018, 12:42:15 AM
Great!   I love it when expensive parts magically start working again!   Sounds like you have the timing close enough - If your sticker is still on the firewall, I'm guessing it said 9 degrees, +/- 2 ??
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 11, 2018, 01:58:42 PM
During high idle when I first turn the car on the pulse air system passenger side is going pretty crazy, I've always heard these pretty much don't do anything so should I be worried?
https://youtu.be/WikgCP5Fr0w (https://youtu.be/WikgCP5Fr0w)

The engine running.
Old
https://youtu.be/9v4o_KzsGDk (https://youtu.be/9v4o_KzsGDk)
New
https://youtu.be/TYuHMnDyw10 (https://youtu.be/TYuHMnDyw10)

Once I shut the engine off it sounds like a lot of ticking, I imagine this is pretty normal. But just to be sure
https://youtu.be/LQYz5o8Cy8g (https://youtu.be/LQYz5o8Cy8g)

I've noticed a bit of white smoke I believe coming from the pcv filter in the air cleaner assembly, and after I shut of the car for a bit I noticed white smoke inside of the carb. Could this be piston ring blow-by? There is a bit of smoke coming from the exhaust manifold because of the oil on it, I don't think the rtv held at all and it's leaking in the same spots.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 11, 2018, 05:48:38 PM
May have one of the check valves on the pulse air system not "checking".   They are supposed to keep air from flowing back into the filter housing.   If one of the air filter housing tubes is all rusty inside from exhaust moisture backflow, that may be the issue.

The ticking is probably just the metal bits cooling down.   Its not running too hot, is it?

White smoke in the carb is just fuel evaporation.   Make sure you don't see any fuel drips from the venturis after you shut off the engine.

You really should go with an aluminum valve cover.   I fought with a plastic cover on my '85 for 200,000 miles before I finally bit the bullet -- I should have done it way sooner!!
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 11, 2018, 06:49:27 PM
May have one of the check valves on the pulse air system not "checking".   They are supposed to keep air from flowing back into the filter housing.   If one of the air filter housing tubes is all rusty inside from exhaust moisture backflow, that may be the issue.

The ticking is probably just the metal bits cooling down.   Its not running too hot, is it?

White smoke in the carb is just fuel evaporation.   Make sure you don't see any fuel drips from the venturis after you shut off the engine.

You really should go with an aluminum valve cover.   I fought with a plastic cover on my '85 for 200,000 miles before I finally bit the bullet -- I should have done it way sooner!!

The pulse air system wasn't doing it before I rebuilt the carb and re-did the vacuum tubes, there is no rust in the tubes. Is this the check valve?
(https://preview.ibb.co/n3vZS9/0911181637.jpg)

I can't tell if it's running hot or not as my temp gauge went out. It wasn't hot before it went out, it was right in the middle.

The fuel evaporation makes sense as I dumped fuel into the carb to start it so that's a relief.

I plan to get a quality valve cover and proper gasket, this was just a temporary to get it thru emissions so I can get it registered.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: AMC of Houston on September 11, 2018, 07:12:29 PM
That's one of the pulse air control valves.  They're supposed to control the air flow based on the vacuum signal to it.   Could have a problem with one of those, or the vac switch controlling the vac signal to it, or the ECM circuit controlling the switch.   There's about a 4-page troubleshooting chart/procedure in the manual if you want to bother.

The check valves are further down right on top of the metal pipes going to the converter.   I can see one in the shadow in your pic.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 13, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
(https://preview.ibb.co/evvtaU/0913181812a.jpg)
Fixed the temp sensor. Once I found out where it was lol, need to add windshield washer to the list of things to fix. Tuned the carb proper and took it higher than I made it last time, no issues that I could see. Waiting on a tach to get the carb dialed perfect for the emissions then I'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 14, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
(https://preview.ibb.co/bBM6Ep/0914181953.jpg)
Put a new heater control valve in, hopefully this one doesn't leak.
Took the old one apart in case people wanted to know what it looked like.
https://image.ibb.co/gb1j0U/0914181949.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fiAu0U/0914181950.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/mApREp/0914181950a.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fYia79/0914181952.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/jVfBfU/0914181952a.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/j0Mv79/0914181952b.jpg

Still waiting on my tach to arrive so I can accurately tune the carb and timing.
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: Murdoc1905 on September 17, 2018, 06:31:36 PM
Is there a special way to take the side view mirror off to tighten the screw that holds the housing on? I don't want to break anything trying to pry it off. Also is there a way to fix the mirror adjustment cables if they are sticking? Can I poor some wd40 on them?
Title: Re: 84 sedan project (beginners luck)
Post by: mudkicker715 on September 18, 2018, 09:25:19 PM
Omg this han't lube in years. Do what you can before you break it.