AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Body Shop => Topic started by: Zoro on August 13, 2011, 10:07:21 PM
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Looks like I will be working on the east coast this winter and the Eagle will be probably be taking me there. She's seen many salt free Colorado winters and has no rust and I'd like to keep it that way. Are any of those large chain rust proofing places worth it? What exactly do they spray on the under carriage? Or am I better off with a $300 rusty east coast Eagle to get me thru the winter?
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It does help, but it depends.
There is a guy here, who hand mixes a whole bunch of stuff, and applys it by hand, with a paintbrush.. he's been doing it for 40+ years, and the car's I see go there, are the most rust free car's Ive seen in Ontario.
I'm not sure exactly what it is that he uses..
I've worked at a place doing rust proofing, that I won't mention, and we were basically given "X Liters per job", if you needed more, too bad.
They didn't even wanting us asking the customer if they wanted to pay for more, because if they said no, it would tip them off the job wasn't finished.
I ended up quitting after a few months, and I constantly went over my quota for liters, just based on the fact I wouldn't let a car go out half done.. So if you do have it done, stand and watch them do it.
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Looks like I will be working on the east coast this winter and the Eagle will be probably be taking me there. She's seen many salt free Colorado winters and has no rust and I'd like to keep it that way. Are any of those large chain rust proofing places worth it? What exactly do they spray on the under carriage? Or am I better off with a $300 rusty east coast Eagle to get me thru the winter?
Not really:
- most use a poor product for their rust prevention
- most apply it incorrectly or use insufficient material
- may drill holes through the paint-sealed body members to spray inside
- require annual application to quality for warranty, which requires rust through - try collecting
I know of three things that work, in order of least effective to most effective:
- 3rd Place (distant third) - There was a farmer just outside of town that when he had time, would put a vehicle up on his hoist, pressure wash it, and leave it to thoroughly dry. Then he'd apply the best of the special purpose-made wicking anti-rust oil. Works, but requires annual complete re-application. Although it's the best of the oil sprays, it's so inferior to other options I'm not even going to give the name.
- 2nd Place - Waxoyl Hardwax Underbody undercoating - can be professionally applied if they do it right, use enough material (more expensive than the specialty oils the companies are cheap with)
- 1st Place - Penatrol (sprayed, brushed, rolled) applied and dried prior to Waxoyl Hardwax Underbody undercoating.
You can also paint first with an epoxy primer thinned for a sealing coat (but that's a lot of work, and expense), but you'll still want the Penetrol on top of that to seal defects and cracks (the epoxy on a non-new-metal application can't be 100%) before applying the Waxoyl. So, in short, no point in the epoxy, unless you've stripped the entire car for a restoration and give it a flash sealing coat everywhere before any building priming coats.
The third option, which is the best option, is also very easy to do, and rather inexpensive. If you've got a rust-free Eagle, I'd very highly recommend it.
The first material, Penetrol, is really cheap (I get it at Lowe's for under $10 a can). It's an oil paint additive, but it got such widespread use for automotive rust prevention by the vehicle restorers that they finally changed the writing on the can and their literature. You can spray, brush or roll it on. I like brushing it into all the cracks and on surface, but spraying into the rocker panels and unibody members.
http://www.flood.com/paint-additive-solutions/products/view-product.jsp?productId=11
An undercoating wand allows you to spray the Penatrol into the rockers and along the inside of the frame members.
If you're concerned, you can remove any bolts, one at a time, and put something on them for anti-seize so the Penatrol doesn't semi-lock the bolts in place. If you don't do something for anti-seize, the rust will lock the bolts in place for you. The Waxoyl "softwax" Rust Inhibitor works well for this, and can be sprayed into any area you can't reach.
http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5726-waxoyl-rust-inhibitor-clear-500ml-aerosol.aspx
Once dry, over top of the Penatrol: the undercoating is Waxoyl Hardwax Underbody, available in 500ml spray bombs or in larger cans if you have an undercoating sprayer. It flows further into cracks in the heat. I use the spray bombs.
http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5727-waxoyl-hardwax-underbody-500ml-aerosol.aspx
topic on application here:
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=15595.msg290954#msg290954
The Waxoyl applications should be maintained annually. Look around for any spots scraped bare of the undercoating. Give it a shot with the spray-bomb. One spray-bomb should last a number of years.
If you're applying Penetrol/Waxoyl over top of the stock undercoating, you can first try using a paint scraper to remove what EASILY flakes off. Just Penetrol and Waxoyl the whole area after. Then, during annual checking, any stock undercoats that come off allow you to Penetrol and Waxoyl those newly exposed areas.
If you're pressed for time, hit with the Waxoyl spray-bombs, but you'll never be able to go back and apply the Penetrol because you'll never get the Waxoyl off.
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My Eagle spent the majority of it's life in CO. It had zero rust. There wasn't even any surface rust underneath. I moved to TN in 09 and within a few months the humid air put a nice coat of surface rust on engine parts, suspension, and rear end.
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Canoe-
That is some great info. I will be looking for the Penatrol next time I get to Lowe's.
Eaglefreek-
I know exactly what you mean. Awhile back I took my IHC truck on a trip to the east coast and while there every single scratch, ding and small dent with bare exposed metal that had been unchanged for 30+ years flash rusted in two days time!
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Canoe-
That is some great info. I will be looking for the Penatrol next time I get to Lowe's.
Eaglefreek-
I know exactly what you mean. Awhile back I took my IHC truck on a trip to the east coast and while there every single scratch, ding and small dent with bare exposed metal that had been unchanged for 30+ years flash rusted in two days time!
Yup. My IH Metro, that I since sold, did the same thing.
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Eaglefreek-
Sounds like we have similar taste in vehicles!
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Canoe, an egg for your story!
Anjo
Hollland
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There's a better rust proofing solution now. And you can apply it over surface rust if you have to.
Fluid Film - a lanolin based product. Sheep's wool oil - and smells like it. Do NOT leave the can in the sun, 'cause the smell goes way up and foul.
Fluid Film can be washed off later, if you want to weld or paint.
A tortue test was done here
https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/anti-corrosion-product-shootout-1073581.html
Daily salt water, then when down to four, he resorted to battery acid to speed the test up.
Fluid Film came out on top.
WD-40 Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor a reasonably close second. Haven't found it on a shelf anywhere yet.
I've used Fluid Film on some bikes that are left out 24/7 and it did wonders lubing up rusty chains and other parts, halting the rust progression too. Youtube shows it a favourite of many truck owners.
It works as a penetrating oil, but it takes too long to suit me on that, but it does creep, which probably explains some of the long term happiness of those using it to rust proof their vehicles.