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Author Topic: Squealling Belts  (Read 11702 times)

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Offline MontanaEagle

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Squealling Belts
« on: February 15, 2011, 10:45:31 AM »
I'm not sure what belt I need to replace, I think it might be the alternator belt something something.  But, whenever I first start up, and push on the gas something squeals until I get to maybe 3rd gear (I have an automatic wagon so I'm not sure exactly what gear).  But after the engine is good and hot it won't squeal as much. It only does it when I hit the gas, and only until about 20 or 25 MPH.

On a perhaps related note, when I first start her up in the cold the first crank of the wheel it feels as though there is no power steering.  After I drive about 10 feet everything is back to normal.  Not sure if it's the same deal as whatever belt is making all the noise.

Any tips or suggestions?  Do I need any special tools to replace belts?
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon (Soon to be for mountain fun times)
1997 Honda Civic (Daily driver in the winter)
2009 JM Star Scooter (Daily driver in the summer)
2010 Schwinn Hybrid Bike (Daily driver in Spring and Fall)

"It may be too early to drink scotch, but it's never too early to think about scotch"

Offline craigp29690

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 11:11:38 AM »
Check the PS fluid level of course.  But I'd guess that if the steering feels stiff you're not getting fluid flow like you should, and the belt is probably dried out which makes it sqeal.  If you're unsure of the age of the belts, don't gamble, just replace all of them.  Check your tensions once installed because even with a new belt, if it's too loose it will squeal under load.  AC compressor and PS pump belts are usually the most likely candidates because they are loaded, the Alternator not so much as it's more free spinning and when loaded due to having all the lights and other bells and whistles operating it sitll doesn't create that much rotational resistance.
1957 Nash Rambler
1964 Rambler Classic 770 2dr
1965 Rambler Classic Wagon              NON-AMC
1966 Rambler Classic Wagon              1981 MAZDA 626 (RWD)
1972 AMC Ambassador Wagon           1991 MAZDA MX5
1981 AMC Concord Wagon                1978 Dodge Magnum XE
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd        
1987 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd           Yes I have a few toys..........

Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 11:25:38 AM »
The two symptoms together say it clear. The PS belt is loose. Even brand new belts, if the tension is low, squeal like crazy.

So, as craigp said, check the PS fluid level first, then look for leaks around the PS pump (oil on belts and pulleys is no good) but then go for new belts install and set to correct tension. I recently installed DayCo Top-Cog and they're perfect !

The PS one is not the easier to tension because space around the pump is restricted, but you can easily do a whole set change in an hour or so.

Ah, and you can easily tell which belt is loose by looking at them and revving the engine (from the carb side of throttle linkage, or having someone doing it for you): a tight belt keeps its shape, a loose one shows a sort of "vibration", like a guitar string played open...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 11:29:04 AM by LaGuardia »
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline MontanaEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 11:28:03 AM »
How do I know when I have the correct tension?  When they look tight?  Feel tight?  Sound like a guitar when I pluck them?
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon (Soon to be for mountain fun times)
1997 Honda Civic (Daily driver in the winter)
2009 JM Star Scooter (Daily driver in the summer)
2010 Schwinn Hybrid Bike (Daily driver in Spring and Fall)

"It may be too early to drink scotch, but it's never too early to think about scotch"

Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 11:37:33 AM »
We both thought about a guitar at the same time... strange ! ;)

Theoretically, you should use a tension meter tool. But it's not one of those things we keep in the tools chest...

So, you can just go by "feeling" the tension. Or try pushing down and pulling up the belt in the middle of two pulleys: if the distance between the lowest point you can reach by pushing it and the highest point you can pull is in the 2 centimeters range you can go with it.

It's the "Italian Way"!  ;D
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline craigp29690

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 11:45:35 AM »
Yeah you need a little bit of deflection in the belt,  if it's too tight you can wear out bearings in the accessories or even the crank.  Usually a half inch of deflection in both directions is a good starting point. 
1957 Nash Rambler
1964 Rambler Classic 770 2dr
1965 Rambler Classic Wagon              NON-AMC
1966 Rambler Classic Wagon              1981 MAZDA 626 (RWD)
1972 AMC Ambassador Wagon           1991 MAZDA MX5
1981 AMC Concord Wagon                1978 Dodge Magnum XE
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd        
1987 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd           Yes I have a few toys..........

Offline MontanaEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 11:48:24 AM »
Thanks, I'll start with the fluid, I might have knocked something loose on one of my trips.  Then I'll look at the belts, they are most likely old and need replaced anyways.  If all else fails I'll start smashing things with a hammer.
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon (Soon to be for mountain fun times)
1997 Honda Civic (Daily driver in the winter)
2009 JM Star Scooter (Daily driver in the summer)
2010 Schwinn Hybrid Bike (Daily driver in Spring and Fall)

"It may be too early to drink scotch, but it's never too early to think about scotch"

Offline craigp29690

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 04:36:54 PM »
Unless you're smashing up some Ford Taurus, please restrain from directing any frustration on your Eagle.  There are plenty here who would adopt it from you if need be. ;)
1957 Nash Rambler
1964 Rambler Classic 770 2dr
1965 Rambler Classic Wagon              NON-AMC
1966 Rambler Classic Wagon              1981 MAZDA 626 (RWD)
1972 AMC Ambassador Wagon           1991 MAZDA MX5
1981 AMC Concord Wagon                1978 Dodge Magnum XE
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd        
1987 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd           Yes I have a few toys..........

beacheagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 11:49:18 PM »
don't worry, the eagle will bite you if you get angry at it. I wear mechanix gloves all the time and my eagle has found ways to chew up my wrist and arm just beyond the glove. they are very carnivorous !!!

Offline ammachine390

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2011, 01:31:31 AM »
Mine would always squeal when the engine was cold, only when accelerating. I replaced the belts, but it turned out to be the alternator that was causing the squealing.
Dan
1981 AMC Concord DL 258 Auto

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Offline craigp29690

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2011, 08:43:09 AM »
The resistance a loaded alternator puts on an engine isn't as much as a PS pump at full lock or an AC compressor.  Sure it still introduces a load to the engine when you've got all your electrical goodies glowing.   

Belt dressing is a bandaid.  When your belts get to the point of being dried out enough such that they don't grip, it's probably a good indication that it's time for a change.  Look at them on the inside and if there is any dry cracking, replace. 

And as said before, whenyo ureplace your belts take some brake cleaner or similar and clean the surfaces of the pullies. 
1957 Nash Rambler
1964 Rambler Classic 770 2dr
1965 Rambler Classic Wagon              NON-AMC
1966 Rambler Classic Wagon              1981 MAZDA 626 (RWD)
1972 AMC Ambassador Wagon           1991 MAZDA MX5
1981 AMC Concord Wagon                1978 Dodge Magnum XE
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd        
1987 AMC Eagle Wagon Ltd           Yes I have a few toys..........

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2011, 09:40:03 AM »
Just another person to say an altenator puts major drag on a motor when charging. And when you use another seperate alt to weld with it will drop the rpm atleast 500rpm. 



Manitowoc WI

Offline MontanaEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 10:06:00 AM »
I didn't get a chance last night to check the PS fluid or anything.  I'll have to do that tonight.  I'm taking Francine on an ice climbing road trip this weekend so I want to make sure she's running perfectly.  I'll take various pictures and let you know how it goes (both the trip and the belt fix).
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon (Soon to be for mountain fun times)
1997 Honda Civic (Daily driver in the winter)
2009 JM Star Scooter (Daily driver in the summer)
2010 Schwinn Hybrid Bike (Daily driver in Spring and Fall)

"It may be too early to drink scotch, but it's never too early to think about scotch"

Offline amc78concord

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2011, 11:30:36 AM »
I just had my Concord's belt squealing dilemma fixed... It was my Alternator belt, and what you were describing there sounds familiar to what happened to mine.  Just a thought...
-Rob
Nekoosa, WI
-82 Eagle Limited Wagon (4.0 Head Swap, Holley 4bbl Carb, Headers, MSD Ignition with Team Rush Upgrade)
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-Many Others... :amc:



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Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 03:02:14 PM »
I had a four banger 2.6 Voyager once, with a two belt alternator.  Having two belts on it was necessary as one belt, with the drag when a lot of electrical things were used, like headlights and A/C would not cut it.  I had a very long trip back from Arkansas once until it got light out and I could see what the real problem was.
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2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline MontanaEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 09:40:00 PM »
Well, I looked all over, the belts don't look too bad, I plucked at them and they are as tight as they should be.  PS fluid is not leaking, although it was a little bit low (not much, I topped it off but it only took a couple ounces to get it to full).  It still squeals.  I'll have to take some time later and actually replace all the belts and clean up the pulley thingies.
1984 AMC Eagle Wagon (Soon to be for mountain fun times)
1997 Honda Civic (Daily driver in the winter)
2009 JM Star Scooter (Daily driver in the summer)
2010 Schwinn Hybrid Bike (Daily driver in Spring and Fall)

"It may be too early to drink scotch, but it's never too early to think about scotch"

Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 01:48:54 AM »
If the squeal appears only when revving (and in a limited RPM range) there's some slack somewhere anyway. They might just "seem" to be tight when not moving. Remember to have a close (not too close) look at them while revving the engine, when you start hearing the noise look carefully and try to see which one is "vibrating". Most likely, the PS one will be the culprit.

If you still can't see the "vibes", then you're right: cleaning the pulleys is the only next step.

To do that, you'll have to remove the belts anyway, so you'll have the chance of retensioning them when you put'em back on. ;)

Just please remember to be VERY careful: it's not a good idea to have your hands around that zone with the engine on, and even if it's off be careful anyway: once I managed to pinch my finger between belt and pulley while turning the fan by hands to check something I don't even remember (too much beer in my tank, I guess) and *ouch* that hurts !
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline AMCKen

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2011, 02:22:02 AM »
If you're really careful about reaching in to moving belts,  :o a little chalk rubbed on to the belt will stop the squeak at least long enough to tell which one it is. You can rub it on to non-moving belts but you don't get quite the coverage.
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Offline BlueEagle

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2015, 03:13:27 PM »
I've adjusted/replaced my alternator belt on my Eagle with AC  just a few times, and each time I've said that the next time I will find an easier way to do it. I also say several unprintables regarding the questionable placement of the adjuster bolt being right under the AC unit bracketry.

 I think I am missing something simple that can make this job no more (or not much more) difficult than it is with my small block Chevy pickup. Anybody have a magic trick for this one?

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2015, 05:38:24 PM »
No, it's a little bit of a pain. Not as easy as some other vehicles I've worked on.
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Offline Amc1320

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2015, 09:56:40 PM »
On my dad's concord the alt belt would only squeak when you turned the headlights on, it's a pain the adjust. We found that if one person was under the car while another was above as a team we could get it tight enough to stop the squeak
Rob c
84 Eagle Limited Wagon (driven everyday)
81 Eagle Kammback
81 Spirit (undergoing surgery)
83 Spirit (parts car giving it all to keep the rest going)
Manchester, TN

Offline carnuck

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2015, 11:11:35 PM »
Best way is to swap out to serpentine belt. That or put a double pulley on the alt and a matching pair on AC compressor. Eventually I will finish converting my Eagle to Serp belt with '93 Grand Cherokee parts.
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Offline Imarid

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2017, 06:17:58 PM »
I'm trying to change my belts on my 1980 AMC eagle. Where do I find the area to release tention?

Online vangremlin

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Re: Squealling Belts
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2017, 06:30:01 PM »
There are probably two belts, one on the passenger side for the alternator and AC if you have it, and one for the driver side for the power steering and smog pump.  On the passenger side, you can loosen up the alternator, and I think there is also a tensioner pulley for the AC. The driver's side is kind of tricky, you have to loosen up the power steering pump, but its not really clear which bolts to loosen up.  Take a look at the technical service manual on this site for more detailed instructions.  I've done this job a couple times and it still takes me awhile to figure out how to release the tension on the belt for the power steering.
1981 Kammback 258 - "Pepe"
1980 Coupe 258 - "Ginger
1972 Gremlin X 304
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