AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Altered Eagles => Topic started by: greythorn3 on February 01, 2011, 02:41:55 AM
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you guys think a 2.1 liter Renault turbo diesel motor out of a 85 jeep cherokee would bolt into a sx4?
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Probably it would. But why in the world would you want to do it ? ???
It was undersized and underpowered for the Cherokee, it would be even more undersized and underpowered for an SX/4...
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...at least, keep it American ! ;)
(deleted a line, it sounded like a flame-starter, sorry).
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i can see 40 mpg in the sx4 with a deisel!
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Gah... I also see lots of black smoke, and a needle never making it to the 55mph mark... ;)
I don't want to advocate italian products, but if I ever had to deal with a diesel engine on an Eagle car, I'd go for nothing less than the VM that originally equipped TD Eagles.
How about propane instead ?
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I am going to say go for it if you have the conplete drivetrain to swap in, I don't know if the engine will bolt to the trans
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The problem with swapping the Renault TD is the same as swapping any engine other than a 4.2/4.0...the front differential mount. Of course, if you want to add SAS to the conversion............
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ya if i got it i would swap the entire drivetrain, axles and all. solid axle front would be nice.
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Didn't the 2.1 also use that really weak Puegot 5 speed transmission?
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Didn't the 2.1 also use that really weak Puegot 5 speed transmission?
I think that is right.
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well i read its really hard to get parts for it even if yoru in italy so forget that, for what i would save on fuel i would lose on parts.
whats this diesel you talk about that was offered in eagles?
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a mercedes diesel or a cummins 4bt is what i am after when i feel enough of my current projects are finished, leaning towards a diesel SX/4 build up if these 2 83 SX/4s pan out (the price is more down to earth)
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a mercedes diesel or a cummins 4bt is what i am after when i feel enough of my current projects are finished, leaning towards a diesel SX/4 build up if these 2 83 SX/4s pan out (the price is more down to earth)
Although I am biased towards the MB, the 4BT would be the best choice. Finding a Dodge truck for the donor trans and transfer case (will bolt up to the 4BT) might be the hardest part. The MB 5 cyl would be the least expensive (you could get a running car for around $500), but a custom trans to TC adapter would need to be made.
Either way, the front axle mounts would need to be addressed unless a straight axle is used.
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well i read its really hard to get parts for it even if yoru in italy so forget that, for what i would save on fuel i would lose on parts.
whats this diesel you talk about that was offered in eagles?
The VM 3.6 L Turbodiesel was offered in the Eagle. There are only 3 known to have existed that we know of. There are 2 of those left.
Rollguy owns it and is restoring it...
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=8378.0
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probably just run the 6 cyl tell it blows then drop a 460 ford c6 and np205 in with dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear and call it a day.
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Wow a Ford 460? That is a huge engine.
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I seen the ugliest v8 swap ever. Somehow they made a bracket tohold up the axle without help from the motor. It was ugly.
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Did some checking and the good news is they used the AX-5 transmission. Parts are the biggest lament for the 2.1 seen in Jeep forums. Now if you go outside of the America's maybe you can find a VM 2.5?
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Ditto.
VM's the way to go IMHO. I had a Chrysler Voyager LTD equipped with a VM 2.5 TD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VM_Motori_engines#425_OHV ).
The Voyager had nearly the weight of an SX/4 (i guess) and that engine still had enough power to push it at a decent cruising speed. It never missed a beat and when I sold the minivan (with 200.000 and more miles on the clock) it still ran really good.
Parts availability should be good, as it equipped 1994-2001 Cherokees too.
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I think Ive only ever seen one or two diesel jeeps. Ford had a diesel ranger and bronco 2 as well but like the jeeps they never really caught on. I often thought the 4bt cummins would be pretty cool but they are pretty heavy...that little 4v Detriot 2 stroker would be fun too. I guess what it boils down to is cold hard ca$h. With enough money anything is possible!!
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Just to drop my two cents. There is a lesser known engine out there that made it into numerous industrial-use applications and is a fairly frequently harvested block in yards due to their relative high production numbers. Parts are really east to get for them due to a few fleet-providers still holding manufacturer's service tickets on them, etc.
Look into the Isuzu 4bd1T, you Cummins guy's out there will surely be able to attest to how bombproof these things are built, they are common in the Isuzu commercial truck line. Its an in-line 4, turbo-charged direct-injection engine that people like me have been using to stuff into FJ's, Land Rovers and Jeeps for a good long time. There are a ton of forums out there with alot of people talking about how to do this swap as sooooo many have been done already, in soooo many different vehicles. Advanced Adapters will cut bell-housing adapters for just about any application, so bolt-up really isn't an issue....although, yes, the transaxle front end would need to be figured out. (but that is as easy as a straight axle, which is really pretty easy).
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Thats a very good idea. Isuzu diesels are very good motors..Reliable, fairly inexpensive as diesels go, and very plentiful...Probably one of the most popular medium duty motors around next to cummins and mercedes.
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I am currently building a SD33T NV4500 five speed diesel Eagle SX4. I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the Nissan SD33 motor in this diesel thread. International put this motor in their Scout IIs from 1972 to 1979, then they put the SD33T Turbodiesel into the 1980 Scouts. AMC must have been impressed, because they made 3,500 CJ10a diesel towpigs for the U.S. Military using an SD33. They also exported some CJ10 pickup trucks and a very small number of J-series trucks with the SD33 from 1982 to 1986. The three VM Turbodiesel Eagles were converted by an outside company in affiliation with AMC. I’m confident that AMC would have used the SD33 if they had decided to make a production diesel AMC Eagle.
The CJ10 has different fenders and grill, but they bolt unto a CJ7 without modification. The frame rails, springs, and axles are identical to a CJ7. The engine has the same dimensions as a 258. The Scout community has alot of knowledgeable people for support and parts are actually pretty common because the SD33 was a very common forklift motor. Nissan also used the SD33 in the Patrol vehicle. The Turbodiesel SD33T uses a different short block with piston oiling holes, but all the external parts are the same. The Turbo from a Mercedes is a slight upgrade that is easily found.
I just bought a 1980 International Scout Traveler. I am amazed at how much I love driving it. The Traveler is bigger than my Scrambler and it gets 30 mpg on the highway. A stock 258 has 110 HP, a stock 304 V8 has 150 HP, and a stock 4.0 has 190 HP. An SD33 has 100 HP and a SD33T has 150 HP with incredible torque. The best part is that a SD33 can easily last 400 thousand miles before needing a rebuild. There is a Scout with 700K miles on its original SD33, although it’s running terribly. The coolest thing is that the piston sleeves are easily removed and replaced during the rebuild. It’s an industrial engine meant to last forever.
The bell housing is strange and only a T19 from a SD33 or a specially modified NV4500 with a very long custom input shaft will work. The CJ10a tugs had a motorhome TF727 with a special bellhousing and torque converter that’s hard to find. I did actually find one from a towpig but passed up on it because the previous owner of my turbodiesel scout has driven another scout with a 727 in the past. He had very nasty things to say because the 727 is designed for a gas engine. It was obnoxiously slow because the narrow ratios available don't complement the power curves in the SD33. I am resolved to use the NV4500.
My Scout came with a second SD33T motor. It’s complete except for the bellhousing and transmission. I am starting with my Spirit GT and making a new floor plan to keep the awesome Spirit armrest. Otherwise the car will be an Eagle SX4 when it’s finished.
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Here are some SD33 pictures I found online.
-Dave Spillane-
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/PICT8315.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/PICT8311-1.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/PICT8310-1.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/PICT8308-1.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/IMG_2270e-1.jpg)
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Hard to tell from pictures but it looks to be proportionate to the 258?
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I found these pictures. One is the CJ10a military towpig. The second and third picture is a towpig that was given a CJ7 frame and custom truck bed. Fourth is a picture of the engine bay of a CJ10a, which has the exact same dimensions as a CJ7. The last picture is of the engine bay of a 258 CJ7 for comparison. The SD33T and AMC 258 are almost the exact same size. If you look closely you'll notice that the power steering pump is on the passenger side, which is annoying.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/b9f0_12.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/CJ10rear.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Cj10rear2.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/CJ10abay.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/258Enginebay.jpg)