Strut rod bushings

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

My eagle seems to have a problem wanting to pull to one side when I hit the brakes.  I'm pretty sure that it's not due to the brakes hanging up on one side because if I slam on them hard both sides seem to lock up at the same time.  My suspicion right now is the strut rod bushings are allowing too much movement, so when I apply the brakes the bushing compresses, letting the control arm move back and effectively steering the car towards that side.

Is my logic correct with this?  This is a redneck test, but with the car in neutral coasting down my driveway, if I look at the bushing and hit the brakes I can see the bushing compress, I imagine at any kind of speed or heavy braking there will be a lot more movement.

So now on to fixing the problem - the bushings on it are cracked but not falling apart.  Can they be used like this and just tightened up, or is it worth the extra trouble to replace them?  And how do I replace or adjust them without getting my alignment all fouled up?

[carnuck]

You're over thinking it. Replace the bushings before they fail and you REALLY have a problem! (Been there, lost a '77 AMX over it)

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Yeah that's what I figured.  I was just hoping it was something that could wait a couple years after all the other issues are taken care of.

Is there anywhere I can get urethane bushings?  I looked around the places I know and everything appears to be the standard rubber ones.  Not that it's a big deal, I'm sure the quality of modern rubber will still outlast the original ones pretty easily.

I think the biggest concern I have with replacing them is the alignment.  I'll definitely take it to a shop and get it professionally aligned after the bushings are replaced and I'm confident everything else in the front end is solid.  That may be a few months though and I don't want to kill my new tires until then, so I'd like to at least get a good ballpark starting point when they're replaced.  Well that, and I don't really trust any shops enough to know that when they do the alignment they'll actually check that the caster and camber is correct instead of just checking toe in.  I've seen too much stupid stuff to trust shops anymore.

[carnuck]

The sloppy bushings will kill the new tires faster than alignment. You can do a basic toe-in yourself.

[jim]

Have you tried rockauto?

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

 Yep, rock auto was by far the cheapest but they only have the same ones as advance auto if I recall correctly. I looked at a lot of we sites all in a row and they all sorta ran together.

[BenM]

Your alignment should be very close as long as you don't move the front nut on the rod. Get the back nut to compress the bushings evenly. You could measure the toe afterward to double check.

You will need the biggest 1" wrench, and maybe a 25mm and a 26mm too if things are rusty. I've used a jack to break them free, but heat and oil will help. I always clean and coat the threads with anti-seize when I check under the car here in the rust belt.

I highly recommend the polyurethane bushings, they don't seem to greatly affect noise or ride quality at all on the strut rods and will remain in good condition for a long time. Also, watch out for ovaled out holes when you replace them.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Ok sounds good, I'll try to take some measurements before and after to make sure that everything stays in about the same place as it is now, and try leaving the front nuts in place.  So far, with my experience with everything I've worked on with this car so far, nothing seems to be badly seized, corroded, or rusted.  I'll hit them with some PB Blaster a few days before and let them soak, I bet they'll come off without a fight.

Does anybody know for sure what the Moog bushings Rock Auto sells are made out of?  The description makes it seems like they aren't rubber, but a proprietary urethane-ish bushing.  Below is what the description on Rock Auto says:

"Moog bushings are designed to absorb vibration and noise and deliver better handling, while providing the performance of urethane without the “squeak” normally associated with it. They are not affected by oils, alkalines, ozone or hydrocarbons; can withstand extreme weather conditions; can carry substantial loads; and will not discolor or crack with age."

For their price even if they are the standard rubber bushings I don't think I'll be getting a bad deal.

[ammachine390]

I believe Moog only makes strut rod bushings out of polyurethane, I know thats all that was available when I bought mine.  The biggest issue I had replacing mine was that the strut rod broke. I applied lots of rust penetrate and used an acetylene torque to get them red hot and they still didn't break loose. Instead, the whole rod broke.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Great, thanks!  I'll order the Moog kit from Rock Auto tonight and soak everything down with PB.

Worst case scenario, if one does break at least I have a parts car I can gank another rod from.

What is the proper way to torque down the new bushings?  If i'm reading the write-up in the eaglepedia correctly, it says to torque them to 65 lbs.  I am pretty sure I don't have any deep well sockets that are going to fit whatever odd size nut AMC decided to throw on there.  I thought I escaped all this metric crap when i sold my Probe.

[vangremlin]

I'll order the Moog kit from Rock Auto tonight and soak everything down with PB.

Make sure you take advantage of the latest Rock Auto discount code - its posted here on the Nest and will save you 5%.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Thanks!  I almost forgot, saved me 1.49.

[ammachine390]

I thought I escaped all this metric crap when i sold my Probe.

Are you sure it's metric? I know I used a standard socket, I believe it was 1 inch, but not sure. Unless AMC changed from standard to metric.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Are you sure it's metric? I know I used a standard socket, I believe it was 1 inch, but not sure. Unless AMC changed from standard to metric.

At this point the only ones I'm sure about are the ones I've already had to take off.  I took BenM's above comment to mean that there are both standard and metric fasteners in the mix for the strut rod.  Maybe he's just suggesting the 25 and 26mm as alternatives if the standard 1" isn't fitting tight enough.

I guess worst case scenario I can take the nut in to harbor freight and find the right size deep well socket.  $1.49 each at HF beats the heck out of buying a full set i'll never use most of, or buying individual ones at Sears or from Snap-On at a price that should be a full set. 

[BenM]

Are you sure it's metric? I know I used a standard socket, I believe it was 1 inch, but not sure. Unless AMC changed from standard to metric.

At this point the only ones I'm sure about are the ones I've already had to take off.  I took BenM's above comment to mean that there are both standard and metric fasteners in the mix for the strut rod.  Maybe he's just suggesting the 25 and 26mm as alternatives if the standard 1" isn't fitting tight enough.

I guess worst case scenario I can take the nut in to harbor freight and find the right size deep well socket.  $1.49 each at HF beats the heck out of buying a full set i'll never use most of, or buying individual ones at Sears or from Snap-On at a price that should be a full set. 

Yeah, I meant they were standard 1", but to have the alternatives around if they were abused or rusted for a tighter fit. I was never able to get a deep well on, the frame rail was in the way, but a slightly different deep well socket than mine might fit. I used box-end wrenches.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Ok, gotcha. So my question still stands, what is the proper procedure for torquing these if we can't get a torque wrench on them?  The how-to says to torque them properly but what is "properly"?

[AMC of Houston]

Well, just "good and tight" will work.    There is no real big force acting on these to try to loosen them while driving.   Just give them a good yank or two with a big wrench.   The only real reason to have a torque spec on them is to keep from over-tightening them and crumpling up the inner sleeve on the bushing set.   If you go too tight; you'll feel the sleeve start to "give" and crumple up.

While I'm here, I'll put in a plug for the MOOG K3090 "improved-design" bushing set (the ones with the sleeves and washers built into them).   I love them -- have them on all my AMC's.   Been using them for a loooooong time.

Watch out what you get tho; there are a lot of K3090 MOOG boxes floating around in the parts systems that are Chinese knockoffs.   They'll be labeled as MOOG K3090's, but will just have plain old rubber bushings in the box (they look like the cheapie junk $10 bushing sets you can still buy).

[jim]

I too was unable to get a socket on.  I used box ends.  I used 2 together as a cheater.

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Watch out what you get tho; there are a lot of K3090 MOOG boxes floating around in the parts systems that are Chinese knockoffs.   They'll be labeled as MOOG K3090's, but will just have plain old rubber bushings in the box (they look like the cheapie junk $10 bushing sets you can still buy).

I ordered the K3090's from Rock Auto.  The picture shows the built in washers and sleeves, so if what I get doesn't look like the picture I'll send them back.  Thanks for the heads up.

[vangremlin]

Thanks!  I almost forgot, saved me 1.49.

That will almost buy you a half a gallon of gas   

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Trying to replace these worn out things, so far it's not going as well as I would like.  Everything loosened up ok, but something's binding up.  I'm following the eaglepedia how-to, which says to leave the tires on the ground, instead of jacking the vehicle up like the TSM says.  The more I loosen the nut on the bushings, the farther forward my front wheel rolls.  I have the nut almost all the way off, and both the nuts on the control arm are off, yet nothing is loose.  WTF?

At this point even if I do get it to come apart, there's no way I'll ever get it back together.  What's causing the wheel to keep rolling forward, and what's putting pressure on this strut rod?  I've tried lifting up both the chassis and the control arm, nothing helps.

[vangremlin]

I believe that when I replaced my strut rod bushings I lifted the wheels and car off the ground

[mudkicker715]

I have done mine with it on jacks

[WoodenBirdOfPrey]

Lifted it all the way up off the ground, that did it.  Thanks!