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Author Topic: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)  (Read 5189 times)

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Offline LaGuardia

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Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« on: January 14, 2014, 10:09:56 AM »
HELLO EVERYBODY !! (sorry for the caps, it's just happiness for writing again here)

Long time no see, but I'm still here, and my Eagle is with me !
Two things happened today, apparently at the same time, and I figured out it was time to come back to the Nest (er... Uhm... the Den, I mean).
First thing, I received a greetings mail from Don (TenEagle) and I was delighted. It was such an unexpected surprise !
Second thing (and this is why I'm asking - again - for yor help), when I arrived at work from home and turned the key to shut off the engine, it simply went on running. All the electrical stuff (radio, gauges, lights) correctly went off, but the engine continued to run happily, smooth as silk.

It took me a few seconds to realize it was still on, I was going to lock the door and leave the car as usual because my mind just refused to think that an engine could go on running after switching the whole thing off.

Then I sat there, puzzled, wondering how to solve the issue (I just couldn't leave it on and though I have lots of ideas on how to start an engine without the key, I know nothing about killing it if the key doesn't do the job).

I operated the key a couple of times from end to end but nothing happened: everything worked fine, radio and gauges went on and off, but the engine simply stayed on.

Then, winning my fear of breaking something in the starter department, I gave the key a little push on the "START" side, the starter cranked for a second (with the engine on it makes a horrible noise, you know) and at last, when I turned back the key to "OFF" it eventually did what it was supposed to do.

I tried starting and shutting off a couple of times, and everything works OK, now.

So the issue is solved. For now. But what could have caused it ? What if it happens again ?

Hint: I recently swapped the starter solenoid (which was shot beyond repair) with a brand new one, identical to the original one. But I just swapped it, I disconnected the cables, put the new one in place, cleaned the contacts, reconnected. A 10 minutes job, nothing that I can logically connect with   the "zombie engine" issue.

Any clues ?
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 10:16:50 AM »
Usually that happens with a bad starter relay (solenoid).  AND, welcome back!  Make sure to add your info to the SOAR database as we need more European members located.
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Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 10:22:50 AM »
Solenoid ?
The thing I just replaced ?
It makes sense... but It's brand new ! I'm definitely out of luck, then.
It took 10 days to arrive here from RockAuto's, and it costed more in shipping than the part itself.
Awww...

I'm going to look for the database...
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 10:36:02 AM »
Are there any Jeep or Ford parts available in your part of Italy.  Ford used similar if not the same solenoid; and of course AMC jeeps did too.
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Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Online eaglefreek

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 11:02:07 AM »
It is usually caused by the alternator feeding back power to the coil. It might be a defective solenoid or it might be a one time fluke. If it does it again, pop the hood and try tapping on the solenoid. It that doesn't work, disconnect the wire from the solenoid post "I" that goes to the coil. It provides 12v+ to the coil while your cranking the starter. If it turns the car off it is most likely a defective solenoid. I would suggest not turning the starter on while the engine is running. You could do some serious damage to the starter and ring gear.
1986 AMC Eagle Wagon 4.2L/4.0L head, AW4,NP242, Chrysler 8.25" rear.
1981 AMC Eagle Wagon As Seen On TV  Lost In Transmission


 

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Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 11:12:25 AM »
I did a quick search before ordering online, but even though few shops said they had them in stock, they asked more than the RockAuto price plus the shipping. So I figured out they were going to buy them overseas, too.
Keep in mind that on this side of the puddle, Eagles, old Jeeps and american cars in general are considered "Exotic" stuff, and dealers have the bad habit to raise the prices at their will.
I'll keep on searching...

eaglefreek: thank you very much for the hint, I hope it's a one time thing, but if it happens again, I'll try as you suggested, thanks a lot again !
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 11:16:31 AM »
We have the same issues here with some of the imports, but not as bad as it used to be.
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Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline carnuck

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 02:19:16 PM »
If the nose bushing of the starter is badly worn, it can sometimes get in a position where it sticks the contacts of the solenoid. That is because it is dragging more than normal amps. Aside from that, the ignition switch itself could be broken inside. Fortunately it's a common GM part. Tilt vs non-tilt is the only differences that year.
AMC/Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental!

Offline uglywilly

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2014, 12:57:13 PM »
On a side note: you are lucky, mine won't start at all
, :banghead:

Offline carnuck

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 03:47:04 PM »
If I were closer, troubleshooting would be far easier. I put a 4.0L in my '84 J10 and I have an HEI dist to go in with LPG for fuel (no fuel pump needed) so it will be just a couple wires to run.
AMC/Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental!

Offline doneagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 05:08:27 PM »

     HI    I don't know how I missed this the first  time around ......don



                                                                                                        :eaglebig:
HI.....A BAD DAY WITH YOUR EAGLE IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK ...A GOOD DAY WITH YOUR EAGLE IS PRICELESS

There are Eagles lovers and there are the uneducated and the best we can do
with them is try to EDUCATED them on the virtues of the BEUTEFULL cars that we drive   ...................don

Offline doneagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2014, 07:53:14 AM »

           HI    I talked to LaGuardia and he said it was the solenoid and is fine now ...HE and the Car are working ....not much time for any thing else ...........don
HI.....A BAD DAY WITH YOUR EAGLE IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK ...A GOOD DAY WITH YOUR EAGLE IS PRICELESS

There are Eagles lovers and there are the uneducated and the best we can do
with them is try to EDUCATED them on the virtues of the BEUTEFULL cars that we drive   ...................don

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 12:15:32 PM »
Good to hear.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline LaGuardia

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 05:43:21 AM »
Hello again !
I' m here with an update... hope someone can help with this:

Yesterday the Eagle did not start (again). When I turned the key to "start" everything went off and the starter didn't even engage.
I thought: "that solenoid, AGAIN", and tried the usual troubleshooting:

Feeding +12 to the solenoid's "S" terminal did not crank the engine, so I thought the starter motor was shot this time, but then I tried grounding directly the solenoid ground post and the starter came back to life. So I guess I have a faulty neutral switch, not providing ground to the solenoid. Ok, I can live with it, even if it's not good practice, I can bypass it by keeping the solenoid grounded in alternative ways...

BUT...

With all the cables reconnected, and the solenoid permanently grounded by the means of a wire directly connected between its ground terminal and the batterys negative post, the engine starts and dies immediately, as soon as I release the ignition key. No way. The engine runs only as long as the key is in "start" position.

Going further in the TSM reading, I tried disconnecting the cables from solenoid's "I" terminal, and - presto! - everything worked fine: the engine starts correctly, and it stays on regularly until I kill it by turning the key to "OFF".

Now, my question to the experienced People is: probably I'll have to swap the solenoid again, but while I wait for the spare part, can I use the car in the following condition:

1) The solenoid is permanently grounded, bypassing the neutral switch (probably faulty). This is not really an issue, as I'm the only driver of my Eagle, and I know what I'm doing ;)

2) The resistance cable attached to the "I" terminal of the solenoid is disconnected. I tried touching it, and it feels quite hot. Can this lead to dangerous situations ? As far as you know, of course ?

Apart from the two mentioned anomalies, everything seem to work fine. How long would you drive your Eagle in such conditions ?

Thank Y'all in advance... any comments will be really appreciated !
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".
Oh, really ? I guess that's why I need BOTH rear bumper corner caps now. Doh !

1981 4.2 Eagle Wagon LTD (Daily Driver)
2003 Toyota RAV4 (Wife's Car)
1985 Plymouth Gran Fury (Endless Project Car)
1997 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 TB (Not Running Now)
1994 Honda Helix CN250 (My Beloved Scooter)
1975 Honda 500 FourK (Can't Remember Where I Left It)
1985 Moto Guzzi California II 1.000 (New Entry)

Offline Mernsy

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Re: Can't kill my engine (even if I really want to) ;)
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 08:01:13 AM »
I wonder if you're getting some sort of feedback from the ignition switch located on the steering column.  You could try adjusting it.
The resistor wire shouldn't be hot if it's disconnected.


 

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