AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: captspillane on October 21, 2011, 05:03:37 PM
-
This topic will be pictures from my current AMC projects. In my garage right now is an AMC Spirit GT, a white SX4, and a red SX4. These three cars are my main daily drivers. These are pictures taken a few days ago, in October or September of 2011. It will take me a week or so to load all my pictures and to catch up on describing what I'm doing right now. Internet access is limited while I'm at sea.
In a seperate garage I have the Kammback that will be complete after these three are done. I will have these four back together by the end of the summer.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110504.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110553.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110492.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110570.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110477.jpg)
-
My Red SX4 was purchased in 2001 when I was 15 years old. I personally have driven this car about 170K miles. It was my main car until I graduated college in Jan 2009. I maintained and ran four Eagles through high school, but this one was my first and always my favorite. It will be put back together by December as a 4.5 multi-port fuel injected NSG370 6 speed. This is a current picture of the engine sitting in front of the car.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110629.jpg)
A few weeks before graduating I purchased the Spirit GT. It had less than 200 miles on a professionally remanufactured 4.5 engine and rebuilt T5 transmission. I drove this car as my daily driver after dismantling the Red Eagle's rear suspension. That engine has a new RV camshaft and a brand new 4.0 head with welded water jackets now and is being installed in the Red Eagle. The Spirit will be converted into a 3.3L SD33T Turbodiesel SX4 next year, but is currently receiving a rebuilt 4.2 motor with the lightly used 4.0 head it originally came with. It will be my daily driver until the Red SX4 is finished this December.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110628.jpg)
I bought the white SX4 in December of 2010 and it was my daily driver until being dismantled in June. It is pristine. The low mileage motor it came with is the one I just rebuilt for the temporary Spirit engine. I just bought a 401 motor for this Eagle. It will be a NV3550 five speed 401 V8 with Dana 44 rear axle and rear disc brakes. I already have the V8 conversion mounts, motor, transmission, bellhousing adaptor, Dana44 with limited slip, and most of the other hardware to assemble this. I will definately finish this as my finest Eagle by the end of the summer.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110601.jpg)
-
I thought I had a lot of irons going :rotfl:, very cool ideas, build threads are a must on these! lol
-
What are ya gonna do in your spare time?
-
This is a picture of the NSG370 6 speed transmission I bought from a wrecked 2006 Jeep with less than 200 miles on it. It is on the far left. Next to it is the NV3550 Five Speed from a 2004 Jeep with less than 2000 miles on it. That one will be seperated from its bellhousing and attached to a T5 bellhousing using an Advanced Adaptors kit. That allows me to install it behind my 401's externally balanced flywheel. There are two T5 transmission sitting to the right of that. The NSG370 is rated at 272 ftlbs and the NV3550 is rated at 300 ftlbs, which is considerably stronger than the T5.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110455.jpg)
In these two photos you can see the difference between the crank sensor holes. The flywheel notches are identical, but they are rotated in relation to the crank because the sensor is on the side instead of the top. The engine will not run if you try to use a 5 speed flywheel in the 6 speed. I heard a rumor that the 6 speed sensor uses a different input voltage than the 5 speed, but I have not confirmed this. I might have to use the hesco kit to install it behind my 4.5.
NSG370
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/09-22-10_1902.jpg)
NV3550 (same as TF999, AW4, and AX15 transmissions)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/09-22-10_1901.jpg)
-
This is a picture of the shift lever from a YJ with an AX5. I bought an Advanced Adaptors plate that uses the lever, hinge bolt, and detent plate from this lever to adapt a NV3550 to a NP231. The plan is to use this as my transfer case low range lever. If I make slight modifications, I believe it will work with all of my transmissions. The lever will come up through the floor to the immediate left of the shift lever. I bought a CV boot awhile back to replace a broken one on an Eagle half shaft. After seeing how hard and messy it is to dissassemble CV shafts I started buying split boots and never used the solid one. I am going to use that to cover the hole in the floor board.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110472.jpg)
-
All of my engines will get the Fel Pro Permadry gaskets. They are proof that the lord loves me. Its also proof that the old rubber and cork valve cover and oil pan gaskets are instruments of Satan. They are well worth the extra cost. On the oil pan you use a drop of RTV at the corners, but otherwise you don't need any RTV on these gaskets. That means its totally reuseable and there is never any scraping necessary. I RTV one side to the oil pan and the valve cover just to keep it in place, the other side stays dry.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110457.jpg)
-
Check out my sexy new radiator. The next one I get will have more cores and intergrated electric fans. They are listed on the evil bay for CJ7s, but they fit perfectly into an Eagle. Stock radiators have the holes for both Eagles and Jeeps, so the aluminum ones copied the same height to the installation bracket. That is why there is metal there to drill in the hole for the Eagle bolt, even tho it did not come pre-drilled. The second picture shows the Jeep hole across from the Eagle hole. The third picture shows the radiator installed too high in my SX4 because I didn't drill the new holes yet. That picture still shows how nicely it fits into the recess.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110458.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110465.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110462.jpg)
-
Before I took my Red Eagle off the road, I jumped it off a hump at 75 mph. I got several seconds of air time. Upon landing the rear leaf springs drove themselves through my rear floor. I spent a few months rebuilding the rear end on that car, so its already ready to go. When I rebuilt it I also installed a reciever hitch tied into the frame with bolts that go straight through to my new floor plates. The bolts are currently stainless steel, but I will replace them with grade 8 bolts soon because I don't trust the brittle Stainless bolts for any degree of load.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/10-14-09_1424.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110527.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110514.jpg)
I love how snug and subtle the Jeep Cherokee hitch fit under my bumper, but I did run into trouble in putting a cotter pin in and out. I had to notch the back panel. The notches are visible in this picture.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110517.jpg)
I used greaseable shackles intended to lift a CJ7 1.5 inches. The new spring perches sit on the floor board plates I installed, instead of on a half inch pedestal that used to be in the sheet metal. I also measured my CJ7 shackles and found that they were about an inch shorter than the stock Eagle shackles. The 1.5 lift CJ7 shackles ended up being the perfect length to return the Eagle to stock height. Notice the web stiffener on the heavy duty shackle eyes I used. Those are available as extreme duty upgrades for a CJ7.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110521.jpg)
-
Check out my sexy new radiator.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110458.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Sept20110462.jpg)
Captspillane, thanks for giving me one more thing to add to my Eagle wish list. That thing is sweeeeeeeet! And I can never have too many things on my list lol.
-
I will be following this thread. Looks like a lot of interesting fab work you are doing/need to do. Keep up the good work!
-
One of the biggest nightmares I've ever faced was the removal of the rear leaf springs. The bolt rusted itself to the metal sleeve, which refused to spin because it was bonded to the rubber. You can't cut the bolt without the rubber burning up or without damaging the critical sections of steel that make up the bolt eye. I used this setup to pull it off. The C clamp is putting pressure on the bolt while I spin it. I'm able to spin the bolt while still putting clamp pressure on it because I used the adaptor from a steering wheel puller set to go over and around the ratchet head. Its vital to switch leaf springs on SX4s because the top leaf isn't supported fully by the second leaf. I correct this by using the leaf pack from a Jeep Cherokee, which has a longer second leaf that protects the Eagle top leaf from fatiguing or failing prematurely. The Spirit and the Red SX4 have already received new leaf springs but the white Eagle still needs them installed.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/BILD0264.jpg)
-
On my red Eagle I am going to try to remove the hump. This will allow me to use the awesome armrest from a Spirit. The floor plan forward of the seam is the same between an Eagle and a Spirit, but in a Spirit it contiues straight back at that height. The first picture shows how an Eagle floor plan humps up almost two inches. The biggest reason for this hump is to make room for an automatic shift lever, but my manual transmissions don't need this space. My Automatics won't either if I use a Lokar cable shifter.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110588.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Spiritvseagle.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Spiritvseagle2.jpg)
-
I have a lot of luck removing those spring bolts by cutting the spring at the bushing, removing the the 2 spring eye halves, cutting the rubber and remove from sleeve, then using a air hammer with a chisel point to open the seam in the sleeve. All cutting is done with an angle grinder and wheels of assorted diameters. Any way you do it it's not alot fun.
Nice projects!
-
Just curious, what size fuel injectors do you have on the 4.5's?
-
I haven't purchased them yet. I'll post it once I do. I'm going to go one size larger than a stock 4.0. It's a daily driver, so I don't want an aggressive engine. Its got a 401 spouse I'll drive when I'm angry or running from the law.
-
My Red SX4 was purchased in 2001 when I was 15 years old.
Waaaaaaait a minute, hold the phone... 2001 - 15 = 1986... and if you were born in 1986, that means you are (or soon will be) the ripe old age of 25. :o
Based on the level of knowledge you display here on the forum, the sheer number of vehicles currently and formerly owned, and the extensive work done to said vehicles, I had always assumed you were way older than that... like maybe late 30s at the absolute youngest.
I must say I was shocked and impressed when I learned your actual age just now. It seems like you've accumulated about 25 years of practical knowledge in less than half that time. I also must say I'm envious of the amount of spare time you have to work on your cars. You're obviously single, or have a very understanding and tolerant other half.
You can measure your spare time in hours per day, mine is more like minutes per week. :P
-
Why thank you. Indeed I'm still 24. I turn 25 on December 17th. I've got a reputation for a fast learning curve. In college I graduated with an unlimited tonnage 3rd Mate's license to drive ships along with two diplomas, one in Naval Architecture and another in Electrical Engineering. Both are an ABET accredited Bachelor of Engineering. Two others at my college had set a previous record for the most credits taken at once at 33 credits, which I exceeded several times. I took 20, then 34, then 35, then 39 credits simultaneously in the same semester. I graduated a year early with 220 total completed credits and a 3.2 GPA.
I know alot about Eagles because in Elementary school I was flying airborne in an Eagle station wagon with my brother driving. In 6th grade I actively started day-dreaming about a red 401 Eagle SX4 with axles that didn't break (my brother broke one around then due to his propensity to lean his Eagle on two wheels). In high school my immediate family had seven cars insured at any one time. Four of those were Eagles I was responsible for maintaining. I've personally driven about 200K miles combined in AMC Eagles in the 8 years I've had a license. I've escaped four severe accidents without any damage as a direct result of all wheel drive and have a great respect for my parents mandating all three of their children drive Eagles as a first car. I've lost control and completed a full rotation in an Eagle four other times. I would have rolled my other Jeeps in each of those experiences.
I now live on a ship for two weeks and then I return home without any obligations for a consecutive two weeks. It provides both time and money. I believe time and workspace is much more valuable than money in completing these projects.
-
Add me to the ranks of the impressed! You really have a ton of knowledge and obviously aren't afraid to tackle some ambitious Eagle projects! Eggs to you!
-
My first red Eagle SX4 cost $250 dollars. I got it in 2001 for my 15th birthday. My second white Eagle SX4 cost $200. I got that in 2002 for my 16th birthday. I actually learned to drive in the second SX4. The red SX4 did not successfully complete a round trip without mechanical intervention for over a year of weekly driving. It was never towed but it constantly limped home without brakes, or a broken SR4 shifter, or leaking radiator, or roadside belt changes or crawling underneath to pop the transfer case back into gear. I routinely did a preflight to spot what will break next and headed off to school with every tool I owned and lots of spare parts. Both of them were Iron Duke four speeds.
We went to a privately owned junkyard near me and stripped some parts for my brother's Eagle station wagon. My mother totalled an Eagle Sedan before I was born and my sister (12 years my elder) totalled our beautiful blue and silver Eagle station wagon when I was 5 years old. At this time my brother and sister both drove a brown on brown Eagle station wagon and my father drove either his maroon and silver Eagle sedan or a white and brown Eagle station wagon. I’ve adopted each of those since. The owner said we were not allowed to take parts from the red SX4 parked next to the junk Eagle. We asked about buying it and he said he bought it at auction and gave it to his son. The son used to drive it around the field behind the junkyard and absolutely beat the snot out of it. A week before my 15th birthday my father took me to our friend's place and I saw the red SX4 sitting on his trailer a hundred yards away and started sprinting over. The junkyard owner sold it to Dad because the slave cylinder had gone bad and the son had driven the clutch master cylinder through the firewall and broken the SR4 shift handle out of frustration. He had given up trying to fix it or find the shift handle. The exterior was in great shape, but it was a mechanical mess. The white SX4 was advertised as “bad engine” and sold as a parts car. I ended up putting about 170K miles on those two cars without replacing the engines or clutches.
I’ve since purchased a pristine 258 T5 white SX4. That replaced the Red SX4 as my daily driver for a year and a half since graduating college. I also purchased a black Spirit GT because it had 200 miles on a remanufactured 4.5 with 4.0 head and Motorcraft 2150 conversion. That’s the new engine for my Red SX4. I also got a 2006 Unlimited Rubicon as a reliable backup for my father, sister and I. My sister has actually driven that more than my father and I combined. Our family has grown up with Eagles and we buy new cars as backups to our antique ones. I got a 1985 CJ8 Scrambler from Nick Cappa, the brother of the chief editor of JP Magazine. It was saved from a Texas junkyard for a magazine article. I bought that to see how they had successfully installed a NV3550 while retaining the mechanical clutch. It came with a full Hesco MPI kit installed and a full brand new TBI kit in a box. The TBI was installed briefly before the MPI in order to compare the two for a JP Magazine article. I also transfer a pristine 1980 International Scout Traveler with a SD33T turbodiesel engine into my name next month to replace my Scrambler while I remove that drivetrain. The NV3550 adaptor is needed for my 401 SX4 and the Hesco MPI is going to my red SX4. The Scout comes with a spare engine destined for an Eagle. I adopted my buddy’s 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado project when he left for Navy nuke school. I’ve also bought two Kammbacks and two Eagle station wagons the last few months for 500 dollars or less, as well as three other parts Eagles over the years.
I’ve dreamed about a 401 5 speed red SX4 since elementary school, and I hope to finish it along with three other Eagles before the end of the summer.
-
I see you started using those dollies to move the red SX/4 over, looks like it worked out pretty well! Btw, you've got the same birthday as my mother, so it shouldn't be too hard to remember.
I think I'll go with that same radiator when I have the money, possibly as well as that leaf spring set up. I found the radiator on the bay, but not sure which springs, shackles, or bushings you got. I sprayed down those bolts with like a full can of liquid wrench this past weekend, and I plan on doing it a few more times before changing them out.
-
A CJ7 leaf spring is the exact same width and sleeve diameter, but a stock CJ7 shackle is an inch shorter than the stock Eagle shackle. I used a greaseable CJ7 shackle from ebay advertised to lift a Jeep 1.5 inches. It worked out perfectly because the half inch pedastal in the unibody was eliminated when I drove my shackles through the floor. I suggest looking for a 1 inch lift version for yours. The reinforced shackle eyes are for a CJ7 too. The radiator I took out of the white SX4 was brand new when I bought my Spirit a few years ago. I can set you up with that one if you can't afford the aluminum one just yet.
The harbor freight dollies worked better than I expected, it was easy to push it over myself.
-
Dude, I'm very impressed. I'm also kind of an idiot when it comes to mechanical things. I can do some light wrenching...could probably do more if I had the proper tools, but we are pretty close to the same age and I couldn't imagine doing some of the stuff you are up to! :)
My birthday is December 10th and I'll be 26.
-
The radiator I took out of the white SX4 was brand new when I bought my Spirit a few years ago. I can set you up with that one if you can't afford the aluminum one just yet.
I may just have to take you up on that then. I'm not sure how well mine will perform, since one- it's been sitting for 7 years with coolant in it, and two- the old cooler holes are epoxied up to hold any fluid leaking into the internal cooler. Replacing it is my best bet, as usual ::)
Oh, and about the spring pedestals, mine might be rusted out enough that I'd have to remove them anyway lol. That area isn't pretty on either side.
-
Dude, I'm very impressed. I'm also kind of an idiot when it comes to mechanical things. I can do some light wrenching...could probably do more if I had the proper tools, but we are pretty close to the same age and I couldn't imagine doing some of the stuff you are up to! :)
My birthday is December 10th and I'll be 26.
Darn smart%^$ kids! Whipper snappers...think they know everything.... LOL
-
Darn smart%^$ kids! Whipper snappers...think they know everything.... LOL
How does that old saying go - They know more than I've forgotten....or something like that. Its hard to remember things at my advanced age lol.
-
Seriously though, I have 10 years on these guys and I know a few things but not as much as they do. I swear I knew more at one time though!
-
Seriously though, I have 10 years on these guys and I know a few things but not as much as they do. I swear I knew more at one time though!
Its nice that they humor us old guys and not make us feel ignorant when they teach us a thing or three lol
-
The first picture shows how an Eagle floor plan humps up almost two inches. The biggest reason for this hump is to make room for an automatic shift lever, but my manual transmissions don't need this space. My Automatics won't either if I use a Lokar cable shifter.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110588.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Spiritvseagle.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Spiritvseagle2.jpg)
Just a suggestion from another old guy... (who's pictures you referenced)
The "hump" in the Eagle floor isn't just for clearance for the automatic shifter...
It"s for clearance of the transfer case!
The nice smooth tranny tunnel of the Spirit just doesn't have enough room underneath for
a transfer case...
You're gonna have to make room for it somehow...
That's gonna ruin your line for the Spirit console/armrest...
Even if you just made the tranny tunnel wider, there still wouldn't be enough room for the
height of the transfer case!
Ask me how I know! ;)
(http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/3/1/a/282537/floorwelded10.jpg)
-
Oh wow. It has been several years since I saved those two pictures from here on the web. Thank you! How long has it been since you completed that conversion? I'm pretty impressed by the finished product. Its awesome to know that someone has pulled it off in the past.
In my red SX4 I have no intentions of narrowing or lowering the Eagle floorpan to the Spirit height all the way back. I just need the hump a few inches before, an inch or two on either side, and a few inches after the silver part of the automatic shifter in your picture to be lower. I need it to be just low enough for the gauge cluster to fit under the ashtray. The armrest assembly will be tilted downward relative to how it sits in a Spirit, but I can smooth out a landing area under the rug for it to sit soundly. The seats overlap it enough to cover up any space that develops from it tilting that way. Its just the area up forward that needs to look right. The wide portion near the seat rails and around the transfer case will not be affected. I have a little more room than usual because the 6 Speed transmission is an inch longer and I will be adapting a Jeep crossmember to be installed a few inches further back and possibly an inch lower than the original Eagle crossmember. I realize that the transfer case will be smack up against the floor and still lower than usual if I take the hump off all the way back.
I will also be converting my Spirit into an SX4 at least a year from now. I have a complete Eagle floor pan from a cut up station wagon I specifically saved to do that with. Once I looked at the underside, I saw how difficult it will be. Eagles have a spacer between the floor and the subframe shown in this picture. How did you compensate for that? I would love to see a picture of your floor from underneath. The conversion seems rather complex there around the subframe. I do think it will be worlds easier to shoehorn the armrest into an existing Eagle than to smush a transfer case under a Spirit. I did measure to see if I could just widen the Spirit tunnel without a donor Eagle tunnel, and saw that its not that simple.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110582.jpg)
-
Heh! Yeah, it has been a couple of years since I posted those pics...
The conversion was completed January 2010..
If you look under your Spirit, you'll see that the "spacer" in that
pic is in fact a channel that runs up over the tranny tunnel!
(http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/3/1/a/282537/spirittunnel-0.jpg)
In Eagles, they ended that channel at the subframe and added a slightly
smaller one just a bit further back...
You can see that on the right of your pic..
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/Oct20110582.jpg)
How you want to deal with it depends on how much work you want to do..
Assuming that channel is there for stiffening purposes, you might want to
weld the "new" channel to the subframe replicating the factory Eagle layout...
Because I installed subframe connectors, I didn't bother because I figured
I'd more than compensated for any possible flex...
I simply cut the Eagle channel back enough so that it would fit thru the
hole in the Spirit floor. The Spirit's channel got cut off right where I
made the cut in the floor...
Here's a pic of about the same location as your pic above:
(http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/3/1/a/282537/floorwelded1-1.jpg)
But I don't want to hijack your thread with my pics...
Just shoot me an email, and I can send you some more pics...
The driver's side is the tricky side!! ;)
I guess it's time I start my own project thread, huh?
-
I have not updated this thread since November because my computer refuses to open photobucket. It’s an internet explorer issue where it downloads the whole thing, then sends an error message and says the site must be aborted. It does it to facebook about half the time and every time to photobucket. I downloaded firefox and it works fine, but once I hover over the area to copy paste the photo links it won't select it properly. There is no point in updating this if I can't post the pictures I have. At this point I have over 100 pictures I intended to post here just piling up. It’s bothersome.
Since I last posted I have purchased a Kammback sight unseen off Clist for 500 dollars. I was amazed to find out that it is one of the most rust free Eagles I’ve ever seen. Last time home I swapped the SR4 for a T5. The entire interior has been switched from abused blue to black. A few weeks prior to finding and jumping on this Kammback, I also bought a severely rusted Kammback from a Nest member. That first one had a beautiful black interior that is now in my rust free car. The manifold had a broken bolt in it that got drilled out and new studs put in place with all new hangars to reinstall the exhaust. The car was sold because the front axle had fallen free and it took some considerable time to repair that. Next week I will return home and make that my daily driver until the red SX4 is complete.
The red SX4 will be back on the road by the end of February. I would have already gotten it done if I had put the time in. I recently met a wonderful young woman who has commanded most of my time. It has been a few months since I’ve had an Eagle as a daily driver and the Kammback is a very well appreciated addition to my fleet.
-
A CJ7 leaf spring is the exact same width and sleeve diameter, but a stock CJ7 shackle is an inch shorter than the stock Eagle shackle. I used a greaseable CJ7 shackle from ebay advertised to lift a Jeep 1.5 inches. It worked out perfectly because the half inch pedastal in the unibody was eliminated when I drove my shackles through the floor. I suggest looking for a 1 inch lift version for yours. The reinforced shackle eyes are for a CJ7 too. The radiator I took out of the white SX4 was brand new when I bought my Spirit a few years ago. I can set you up with that one if you can't afford the aluminum one just yet.
The harbor freight dollies worked better than I expected, it was easy to push it over myself.
Just reading this so a bit behind - congrats on your acconplishments of course.
comment on those dollies - I bought a set of 4 to move my AMX around the shop in the winter , one of the wheels snapped off on the first roll- arghhhhh !!
-
captspillane,
You should be able to click on the photo you want to get the link for and when you go the page containing that photo the links to copy will all be on the right side of the photo. The hovering method when you are in the album view isn't the only way to copy that direct link. Hope you can get some pictures up. I look forward to seeing these Kammbacks!
-
Victory! My computer is still messed up but our company computer here on the barge finally got fixed and it works now. I'll be catching up over the next week using that. By the way, even if you click on the picture the window on the right doesn't show the entire link and firefox still didn't let me select it manually or let me scroll to see the whole link.
Here is the new Kammback as it sat when I purchased it. I drove it home, so I had some work ahead of me to make it roadworthy. The engine is bizarre, because it is a 1978 Iron Duke from a Chevy Monza. It has a different head and block casting with the distributor further back, intake and exhaust on the same side, and a different carb. It is otherwise a direct bolt in replacement for the '79 to '80 style Iron Duke that AMC bought the tooling for. This engine was overbored and rebuilt in 1995. At first I had no idea what I was looking at since it was so different visually from either the original Iron Duke or an AMC 150. Thankfully it came with a tin full of reciepts and documentation that told me when and what had been done to the car.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0702.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0699.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0700.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0695-1.jpg)
-
I would have more pictures loaded if I wasn't limited to a whopping 8 kb/sec. I think dial up would be an upgrade if it was an option. The first thing I did to the Kammback once I got it home was switch the SR4 for a T5. The Kammback's 3.54 gears match the T5 perfectly, but it’s really the weakness of the shift lever that demands that it be changed immediately. The first picture shows the gear shift lever of the SR4 in comparison to the T5 lever. You'll notice the heavy notch out of one side. To separate first from reverse that notch slides under the block visible below the mounting plate in the second picture. You can also see a spring built into the base of the SR4 shift lever that is meant to be depressed before going into reverse. An '83 VW Quantum is the only other car I've ever encountered that you're supposed to push down on the lever to go into reverse, so most people stress the shift lever terribly by forcing the notch against the block in a way it’s not designed to be and which there isn't enough material remaining to last long. I've broken 6 of them already and encountered several other broken ones in the junkyard.
The next several photos show the old SR4 next to a T5. You'll notice that they are very similar and obviously designed to be a direct interchangeable unit. I'll elaborate further in a new thread under the transmission categories, but here are some things to notice about these photos. First the SR4 has a slightly different support on the side with through bolts instead of threaded bolts on the T5. They use the same support along the side of the transmission up to the bellhousing, but the piece that the support bolts to is different because there is a prominent bulge on the side of the T5. The driver’s side support is the same from T5 to SR4. That bulge happens to be the only way to tell a T4 from a T5 since the bulge is there to house the additional overdrive gear. The SR4 version is the same from left to right and it bridges both bolt holes instead of only one hole.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0811.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0819.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0841.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0830.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0831.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0832.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0833.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0834.jpg)
-
I purchased a few interesting things recently. First is the list of stuff I got from an evil online auction site. I got a pair of black polyurethane 258 motor mounts for 52.85. I got a double roller timing set for 148.19. For 25.99 I got a full set of polyurethane strut rod bushings. I like them considerably more than the usual replacement sets. I’ve never had squeaking issue with poly bushings if I coat them with never seize before installing them. For an amazing 88.95 I got a stainless steel exhaust manifold. My Spirit had this exact same one when I got it. The gasket it comes with was severely cracked from heat exposure. I like the manifold alot and am amazed at how cheap it was, but I know better than to use that junk gasket it comes with. As cheap as it is it won't rust and it has the baffles to prevent it from cracking like an original 4.0 manifold. All prices mentioned included the cost of shipping.
I also picked up the Garnett interior recently from "Woodenbirdofprey" here on the nest. It’s always a pleasure meeting fellow AMC Eagle owners. Here are two pictures of my Jeep Rubicon. Believe it or not, I fit the entire interior into my Jeep Unlimited. I also bought a Scout Terra recently. That’s the truck style half cab that I plan on putting on my Scout Traveler. The last picture shows the Scout Traveler, which is my current daily driver. It will replace my Jeep Scrambler once it has the Terra top. I’m using the Scouts to provide the SD33T diesel motor I’m installing into an Eagle.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0767.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0763.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0762.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0769.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0765.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0706.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0707.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0776.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0778.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/08-13-11_1514.jpg)
-
Holy cow, I didn't know you got the Terra! That looks like such an awesome project, wish I could afford to own and fix up one of those, in addition to my SX/4. Unfortunately, I think my Eagle will have to wait patiently until summer time when I am home again to work on it and have more money saved. It's nestled safely under the car port with a nice new cover I got for Xmas.
I did however acquire a new car over break, which will get me around where I need to go. Maybe I can stop over and help with some of your projects if ever I'm home for the weekends. You should send me your updated work schedule so I can let you know when I'm around.
-
I installed a NP242 into my Red SX4 with this rear driveshaft. I've driven it for several years this way and there are no noticeable vibrations or problems. I found out that the XJ slip yoke is directly compatible with the stock eagle universal joints. It pops right off the junkyard shaft and directly onto the original Eagle driveshaft. You can't drive it this way until you disable the original slip joint, however, or the driveshaft will slide right out the back of the transfer case. I initially used two split PVC pipe halves held on by four hose clamps to figure out how much pipe I needed to add. I then found a piece of old steel handrail that had the perfect inner and outer diameter to slide perfectly and snuggly into place.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0870.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0871.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0873.jpg)
-
Here are your options to change your speedometer. In newer fuel injected Jeeps the speedometer works off an electric speed sensor. On the Eagle it works mechanically.
I just found my new MPI (Multi Port Fuel Injection) speed sensor on the evil bay for 28.03 (buy it now, more than 10 available, free shipping). In comparision Autozone wants 70 dollars and Hesco wants 122. Helpful search terms to find what you want include the words "new" "speed" "sensor" "transmission" "vehicle" "Dodge" and "Dakota".
The same one was used on 88-93 Dodge Dakotas as well as 91 to 93 YJ's. The Speed Sensor has an input and an output. It screws into the CJ style transfer case adaptor that is also used in a 1992 XJ. The XJ speed sensor is nearly identical except that it doesn't have the threads and hole for the mechanical speedometer.
The first picture shows the YJ speed sensor I'm talking about. The second pic, in the middle, shows the 92 XJ version that does not have the hole or threads in the center (to be honest it shows a Dodge speed sensor that’s nearly identical). Later XJ’s replaced this two piece design with a one piece electronic only design. The fourth picture shows the entire two piece design that gets installed into your transfer case.
Option 1: Mount it directly on the back of your Speedo using a brass adaptor to go from tiny threads to big threads. It’s tight but this keeps everything else stock. “Tougeagle” used this method in his popular write-up.
Option 2: Mount it on the firewall, have original speedo cable go to it, then an International Scout upper speedometer cable which is only about 2 feet long go from that to your speedo cluster. Scouts had some doohicky on the firewall that interrupted the speedo cable just like this does.
Option 3: Get a common 92 XJ adaptor that plugs into the side of the transfer case. You'll need that piece from a junkyard. Thread this 91 YJ speed sensor into it. Get a 91 YJ mechanical speedo cable (threaded at both ends) to go from your dash to the speed sensor on your transfer case.
Option 4: Combine option 2 and 3. This is my choice and my recommendation. You use a YJ mechanical speedometer cable instead of the original Eagle Speedometer cable. Screw one end of the speedo cable directly into the XJ transfer case adaptor and the other end into the speed sensor mounted in a convenient spot under the hood. I’ll have the short Scout cable to go from the speed sensor to my dash. This keeps all electronic junk organized inside the hood.
Option 5: Eliminate the mechanical speedometer totally by modifying an XJ speedo to fit into the Eagle dash. I included a picture of the dash I’m making for my main car with an XJ tachometer and Speedo.
The last three options are the best in my opinion because you can just unscrew the speedo cable and leave the transfer case fluid alone if you’re just removing the transmission to work on something else. It’s a mess to deal with popping that stupid integrated speedo cable out of the transfer case all the time. All Jeep transfer cases are interchangeable if you upgrade later, so you’ll only have to buy these parts once.
The last picture shows a 242 transfer case. The threads are visible along the slip yoke housing. That's where you'll find the internal adaptor you need from a junkyard. The speed sensor that screws into it and the different size gears are all available new. All early XJ's had these but eventually they went to the one piece electronic only design. A CJ Dana 300 piece is supposed to be the same, but I haven't confirmed this. I just know all the new process transfer cases are interchangeable speedometer adaptors.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/SpeedSensor.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/VSSRight.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0759.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/SpeedSensorwhole.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/242withadaptor.jpg)
-
Here's the modification I do to all my Eagles. This allows you to install stock Cherokee 235/75R15 tires without making any visible changes to the exterior of the vehicle. First picture shows my Red SX4 with those tires but without the fender flares on. It had the fender flares, louvers, and brushgaurd on it for years this way but for some reason this is the only picture I have.
No changes need to be made to the rear wheel wells. My SX4 in the first picture has new rear leaf springs and shocks with a coil spring built into them for extra stiffness.
The second and third picture shows the front of the passenger side wheel well. All you have to do there is reduce the thickness of the rubber flare and trim the very inner corner back to the metal fender support. On one Eagle the tire just barely rubbed the fender support, so I had to drill a new hole and move it up an inch along the fender.
The next series of pics show the rear of the fender well. First is how it looks before I start. Next shows the first slice I make. The next pic shows the second slice I make into the plastic inner fender cover. You can use tin snips to finish the slice because the plastic is very soft. The next shows the slice I make into the metal of the rocker panel. I next cut off the very end where two thicknesses of metal are spot welded together. That's shown in another picture. Once the double thickness part is gone, you can use pliers to neatly fold the metal back to give the finished edge. None of the metal modified has any effect on the strength of the rocker panel. I did the whole modification with the fender flare pulled away, but not totally removed.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/11-15-09_1344.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0885.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0887.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0884.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0886.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0890.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0891.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0893.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0894.jpg)
-
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_1254.jpg)
-
I've been working over alot recently, which means I've spent much more time at sea than home. The only thing I accomplished recently is the revamp of my garage. My Eagles are airborne! I now have my two former daily drivers suspended in the air. Both of them are being worked on together. When I finally get home this week I will be painting the underside of both of them. I will paint them together but then focus on one at a time so that I can finally have my beloved red SX4 back as my primary daily driver. I have been without an SX4 to drive since June.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_1323.jpg)
-
That's impressive. Wish I had a garage I could just park a cat in!
-
For those with good eyes they will see that I used 4 ton Come-alongs initially. It worked great lifting the white one because that doesn't have its hatch or doors attached. When it came time to lift the red one, which is much heavier because the doors and liftgate are still on it, they did not hold up. A Come-along is intended for horizontal loads only. I had to break down and buy chainfalls. The chainfalls work much much better. They can be operated from the ground, they are stronger, and they are considerably less effort with more control.
All of the chains and hardware I used are individually rated to 2,000 pounds or more. I lift the vehicle from two points, front and rear. I use shortened ratchet straps to balance the vehicle and keep it from flipping over while its being lifted. Once the vehicle is at the desired height I have a totally independent set of 4 ton ratchet straps. I do not walk underneath the vehicle until it is properly supported at all four corners with the safety straps as well as the two main lifting points. I spent over $1000 in hardware to create the four airborne parking spots safe enough to park below or stand underneath to paint.
The garage was built with crazy huge I beams that the builder got for free. He intended to build a second story back in the '70s when the garage was built. They do not blink an eye to the weight. I have room for four Eagles to be stored in the air as well as room for 5 more to be parked underneath them. My garage is now a true "Eagle's Nest."
-
Will all the Eagles you have you could certainly use the room! :)
-
In the last three months I've spent a grand total of three days in my garage. I have very little progress to report. The days I could have been home working on my projects were spent working extra time at sea on various vessels throughout the company I work for. In those three days I started rebuilding a friend's Ford E4OD transmission, I spent some time cutting up a parts Eagle, and I test fit the Hornet fenders on the parts Eagle with great results. It's a fairly easy conversion.
What I did "accomplish" was the purchase of four vehicles. Obviously I don't have enough projects already, right? The first is a 1982 J10 pickup truck. I also purchased a J10 cap and a J10 factory rollbar from two other gentlemen on craigslist. The grey J10 is mine, the orange one is the truck the cap used to be on before I purchased it and the blue J10 with black trim is a photo from ebay showing the exact color scheme I plan on painting mine.
I also purchased two Hornets and a 1979 Spirit AMX. The 1974 2 door sedan Hornet is in my garage already but the 1977 Hornet station wagon and the AMX will not be picked up until I'm home again later this month. More information about the Hornets will come soon. I may sell the Hornets to better homes once my Kammback has a new smile.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/Hornets/IMG_1257.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/Hornets/IMG_1272.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/Hornets/IMG_1271.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/J10%20Truck/IMG_1403.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/J10%20Truck/IMG_1286.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/J10%20Truck/IMG_1324.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/J10%20Truck/IMG_1325.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/J10%20Truck/IMG_1326.jpg)
-
I just read BenM's post in another thread.
The 79-83 parts catalog lists a whole mess of available AMC 15 and 20 ratios. (http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Group_9_Axles_--_Propeller_Shafts)
As far as I can tell (F/R)
2.35/2.35 (20:47/17:40)
2.72/2.73 (18:49/15:41)
3.07/3.08 (14:43/13:40)
3.31/3.31 (13:43/13:43)
3.54/3.54 (13:46/13:46)
...Those are the factory Eagle ratios offered. The lowest gears (4.xx) are available aftermarket for CJs; I don't have any Jeep TSMs available to see if there were other options from AMC.
The tooth counts listed are very helpful to me in identifying several axles and axle components sitting around my garage. I realize that I can just calculate the exact ratio myself by counting both sets of teeth and then dividing, but in practice I like to be able to count both and be immediately confident without the division step.
The Group 9 information he quoted (clicking the blue letters links to it) raises several questions concerning my own projects. I just purchased a V8 1979 Spirit AMX. It seems from the Group 9 PDF that there is a difference between the V8 axles and the 6 cylinder axles. It says it has a 8-7/8" diameter drive gear versus a 7-9/16" drive gear. It also seems to say that all 1979 axles are the same, being bigger than the 1980 plus axles. Does that mean that a rear axle from a 1979 four cylinder Spirit would be just as strong as a 304 V8 AMX Spirit? I'm anxious to be able to compare the AMX axle against the axle in my 1982 Spirit GT.
My impression is that the Eagle axle is an AMC 15, while the CJ's and all 1979 passenger cars including the V8 AMX got a slightly stronger AMC 20. I take it that both the AMC 20 and especially the AMC 15 are weaker than the Dana 35 found in XJ's. It seems the AMC 15 is simply a Dana 35 with thinner axle tubes and light duty, smaller bearings and two piece axle shafts. The AMC 20 has its own unique center casting and distinctive rear cover.
Does this mean that the "Superior" one-piece axles I have in my CJ8 Dana 20 would work in the AMX axle if they were the same width? Has anyone here ever tried to upgrade a 1979 AMC axle with one-piece axle shafts? Can anyone confirm or describe what the difference is with the AMX axle?
-
The 401 I purchased a few months ago is now destined for installation into a different vehicle. My Eagle SX4 project has been jump-started by my recent purchase. I agreed to buy a performance 401 recently machined and ready to assemble. Everything needed to install it is included. Only the short block is assembled. The rotating assembly was already precisely balanced with a brand new flywheel. Its bored .040 over to a size of 408. The custom forged pistons were designed for a compression ratio of 9.25:1. That's perfect for my intended use of the engine and unusually low for a performance motor. A computer program given the exact specs of the build concluded that the motor will produce 435 HP and 478 ft lb torque.
I did further research into the available GM TBI kits. The largest size available found originally on Chevy 454s is actually limited to about 670 CFM. This engine requires 700 to 750 CFM. The engine does come with an Edelbrock performer 800 CFM carb still new in the box, but I have my heart set on the Edelbrock Multi-port Injection kit. Reading up on the specifics of that kit has convinced me that's exactly what I "need" for my SX4.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/P1010529.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/P1010541.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/P1010528.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/P1010525.jpg)
-
Here is details contrasting the Howell TBI kits and the Edelbrock MPI kits available for an AMC 401. The Howell Kit costs $1450 new ready to install and can be built from a combination of new and used junkyard parts for about half that. It's perfect for a stock 401 or built 360, but can't handle a built 401 like this one. The MPI kit cannot be built from junkyard parts and costs about $3000. I love that it includes an independent programmer and top quality detail work. Notice the fuel pump delete plate? It's sexy.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/AMCV8EFI.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/York%20401/AMCV8TBI.jpg)
-
Capt,
I wish I had your problems! Nice looking 401. Keep us up to date on this engine build please.
-
I'll document every aspect of the build in a project thread once the vehicle is near completion. At this point the engine is essentially done and ready to paint and bolt in place. The body is stripped down, every bolt removed. The axles and transmission and all the other related hardware are sitting next to it ready for installation preparation. I'm excited to see it start coming together.
The only "problem" I have is balancing drivetrain components. The transmission, transfer case, and axles I selected are suitable for a 1/2 ton pickup. I consider them perfectly matched to an engine that puts out less than 350 HP. A stock 1971 AMC 401 was rated at 330 HP and 430 ftlbs. That will work nicely with the heavy duty drivetrain I've sourced for this SX4.
My drivetrain was not designed for 435 HP and 478 ftlbs, however. I'm actively researching now what components will be needed to have a balanced drivetrain. Keep in mind that this engine will produce much more torque and many times the horsepower of a Cummins Turbodiesel 6BT. There are sources that quote that a highly modified Mustang T5 can live behind a motor with 450HP, but they do not tell the whole story. A small displacement motor can achieve 450 HP if it spins fast enough. Horsepower is a unit of work, or energy dispelled over time. The strength of a drivetrain component is given in torque. The transmission will require robust bearings to live at those speeds, but the shafts themselves will not see a large degree of torsion and shear stress. This engine would smoke a T5 effortlessly. It has the potential to break all the heavy duty components I've installed behind it.
-
Capt. just a thought, if it isn't allready done,look into running a line from the front to the back of the engine for better oiling on the rear main.This is standard practice on these, they are known to have issues.Especially when "built" up. I have the specs and a drawing for it, and had it done to my 401 , but can't remember the specifics off the top of my head.( am not at home) .
-
The gentleman who built this engine gave me three books detailing how to build up AMC V8s. He actually had the main bearing caps machined straight from dimensions found in one of those books. He launched into a heated debate over the aux oil line.
Mainstream wisdom says that this line is needed to get oil back to the rear main. His argument, supported in some of the documentation he's looked at, says that this line should not be added because it decreases the oil pressure in other oiling circuits throughout the engine. He maintains that proper oiling of the rear main is best accomplished by increasing the volume of oil slightly and the oil pressure dramatically. He also put extensive time into comparing solid lifters versus roller cams. His opinion is that solid lifters along with special restrictive pushrods that increase the oil pressure will sufficiently oil the rear main without the added line. He also provided special lifters with a laser cut oiling hole in the center for increased oil flow directly to the cam lobe.
He is very distrustful of the roller cams available for AMC V8s because he has personally known a friend who ruined a high performance 401 as a direct consequence of poor design. He is a huge fan of roller cams in Chevy applications, but his scrutiny of the AMC versions concluded that they do not maintain proper pushrod adjustment. He further chose solid lifters for his build because they provide a consistant and reliable pushrod adjustment that is critical for high performance applications.
I'm still researching and learning before I pass judgement on these decisions. I still have the opportunity to change this engine before installation. Only the short block has been assembled and match balanced to the top quality flywheel and harmonic balancer. Everything else is new in the box ready for installation or substitution.
Thank you 68AMXGOPAC for the scans detailing the opposite side of this debate. They are critical in my research. Eggs!
-
The gentleman who built this engine gave me three books detailing how to build up AMC V8s. He actually had the main bearing caps machined straight from dimensions found in one of those books. He launched into a heated debate over the aux oil line.
Mainstream wisdom says that this line is needed to get oil back to the rear main. His argument, supported in some of the documentation he's looked at, says that this line should not be added because it decreases the oil pressure in other oiling circuits throughout the engine. He maintains that proper oiling of the rear main is best accomplished by increasing the volume of oil slightly and the oil pressure dramatically. He also put extensive time into comparing solid lifters versus roller cams. His opinion is that solid lifters along with special restrictive pushrods that increase the oil pressure will sufficiently oil the rear main without the added line. He also provided special lifters with a laser cut oiling hole in the center for increased oil flow directly to the cam lobe.
He is very distrustful of the roller cams available for AMC V8s because he has personally known a friend who ruined a high performance 401 as a direct consequence of poor design. He is a huge fan of roller cams in Chevy applications, but his scrutiny of the AMC versions concluded that they do not maintain proper pushrod adjustment. He further chose solid lifters for his build because they provide a consistant and reliable pushrod adjustment that is critical for high performance applications.
I'm still researching and learning before I pass judgement on these decisions. I still have the opportunity to change this engine before installation. Only the short block has been assembled and match balanced to the top quality flywheel and harmonic balancer. Everything else is new in the box ready for installation or substitution.
Thank you 68AMXGOPAC for the scans detailing the opposite side of this debate. They are critical in my research. Eggs!
Your welcome Capt. , I would be interested in any info you have from his side of the discussion if possible.There are very few knowledgeble AMC engine builders around.Especially those that have actual experience and hands on results,rather than " the book says" aspect.There are 2 AMX's that run at a local dragstrip.I will pick there brain as to there set up too.
-
My impression so far is that the aux oiling line is a great upgrade to an otherwise stock AMC V8. It seems everyone might be right. This engine is a much more refined beast. Every component in this engine has been thought through and designed to work together to fix the problem. It seems that someone building an AMC V8 from scratch has the opportunity to change the entire oiling system instead of simply adding on to the stock system.
I'm too in the position of trying to learn as much as I can from the people who have already done what I'm undertaking. There is alot to learn and many people to learn from.
-
I haven't updated anything here in awhile. In June I got engaged and have been busy building a home and planning a wedding since. I purchased the engagement ring, a beautiful race quality AMC 401, and my seventh SX4 all in the same month. My AMC budget is drastically limited for a few months while I catch up from those investments. Two months passed without any time available for my garage, but some work has been accomplished this month. Here are the things going on in my garage right now:
-The newest blue SX4 I purchased is sharing my garage right now with my Kammback. I have two engines that I freshly rebuilt back in November of last year going into both of those Eagles. Yesterday I finished removing the entire steering and suspension system in the blue SX4. By the end of September I plan on driving that Eagle as my primary car while I finish the Kammback. The Kammback already has a freshly rebuilt rear axle and lots of other mechanical and interior work completed in it. I will just be replacing all of the original suspension and steering parts that remain and then installing a rebuilt 258 before sending it to get painted. The front end will be assembled using Hornet fenders and grill. The Hornet bumper will be tucked back a few inches by drilling new holes in an Eagle bumper mounting bracket in order to eliminate the four inch spacer original to Hornets. Both of those Eagles will be fuel injected. Both Eagles will be totally painted in their underside before the rebuilt engines are installed. All new bushings, wheel bearings, and gaskets will be used in every component before being reinstalled.
-I’ve been preparing to build a large number of louvers. As soon as the Blue SX4 is driven to the inspection station at the end of this month I return to that project. I need to complete several sets of louvers for my own cars before I begin building sets to sell. I’ll be working the bugs out and refining the construction process by prototyping my own cars first.
-I’m saving up for the Edelbrock AMC V8 Multi-port fuel injection kit for my Red SX4. That is the last big item I need to assemble my AMC 401 SX4. I’ll eventually need a rear Dana 60 for that car as well, but I’ll have to install the Dana 44 I have for it in the meantime. Two other SX4’s are currently under construction in the garage at the same time I finish up on the blue SX4 and my Kammback. The goal is to have all four of those Eagles as well as three other Eagles and two other Jeeps finished and ready to drive by the winter solstice meet in December 2013.
-I've been measuring axle widths with different combinations of tires. I love when my tires are exactly flush with the outside of the plastic fender flares. To do this in the front you need the outside of the tires to be 69-1/4" wide in the front and about 71" in the rear. The stock Eagle Sport rims give an outside width of 65-1/2" in the rear and 67-1/2 in the front. My Kammback right now with the spoke style Cherokee rims is 71" in the front with 1.5" spacers. I'll be switching the spacers out soon to the smallest size available, 1", to try to get the front wheels tucked back under the fender flares. They stick out about 3/4" further than I wish. I think I'll be happy with it once I bring it within a quarter inch of the correct value. Keep in mind that the spoked XJ rims don't fit on the front of an Eagle at all without a spacer. They have about 3/4" difference in backspacing in comparison to the ten hole XJ rims. On most of my Eagles I'll be using the ten holes. They work wonderfully in the front. The width is perfect without a spacer, coming out to 69-1/4" total width. In the back they add two inches to the width without spacers, making the rear look considerably better. On the back of my Kammback I added 2" spacers with the spoke XJ rims. With the ten holes I'll be using either 1" or 1.5" spacers in the rear because the ten hole XJ rims need about 3/4" less of a spacer than the spoke XJ rims. I'm excited to share more pictures of these different combinations once I finish this blue SX4.
I use 235/75R15 tires. I don't modify the exterior of the plastic fender flares, but I do modify them inside the fender wall. They will rub without modification. On this blue SX4 I have the entire suspension being replaced, so the final fit of the tires will be done with the coil spring removed and a jack pushing the control arm tight against the rubber bumper to test the fender fit in the worst case scenario. I'll have my fiance turn the steering wheel side to side while testing the clearance of the tire across its entire range of motion as I make the final trims.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/IMG_1454.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/DSCF0898.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/DSCF0896.jpg)
Remember that these two pictures were taken in June with a 1.5" spacer in the front. I'm decreasing it to 1" spacers to help bring the front tires in a half inch to where I want the front tires. The 1.5" spacers worked perfectly when I had these same tires on my Spirit but they are a little too big for an Eagle. It is pictured with 2" rear spacers.
-
Wow, dude, that Blue SX/4 looks like a great buy!
-
Where do find the time? lol, agree with rafe here that blue one look pretty sweet. What year hornet nose are you going with, should look pretty interesting, the gf and I toyed with that idea for the sx/4 but never found a donor in time, lol.
-
The blue SX4 sure is pretty nice. I'll describe it further here next month once I get some pictures to put up.
The Hornet front end I have is the best of two different Hornets. I have a '77 Station Wagon and a '74 2dr Sedan. I actually don't like the Hornet front end as much as I like the 1980 Eagle slat grill front end, but it should match the Kammback perfectly. I really think Gremlin's would have been much more popular if they shared the same fenders as their Hornet siblings. I'm rather enthusiastic about having an Eagle with Gremlin taillights, Hornet fenders, and a Spirit Armrest. I might dig up some Concord and Javelin parts to mix into the car for good measure.
-
Hi Capt. , haven't been on in awhile, so catching up on posts I had tagged. Congrats on the Fiance ! and good luck with the house build.If you put the effort into it that you do your car projects I am sure it will make a nice home for the two of you.
-
Thanks! The excitement and joy of being engaged has commanded my time and attention the last several months. A few days ago I did make it home for two days. During that time my fiance and I spent three hours together in my garage. We managed to finish dropping the front crossmember along with the engine and transmission out of the bottom of my newest SX4. We also prepped the front axle for rebuild. Her and I make a great team at everything we do including the restoration of AMC Eagles.
I found this picture today in an obscure file on my computer. I found that Eb Tuba in a private junkyard. I had stopped to knock on the owner's door to ask about four Eagles I spotted from the road. He needed a few hours of labor in one part of the yard and he gave me the tuba along with some Eagle parts in gratitude. I posted the picture here because it shows the four Eagles we had on the road at that time.
In the picture the Red SX4 just had its second engine fire. I recently described it here on the nest. The engine fire was caused by the engine to body ground strap breaking. It sat there for about two months while I rebuilt it. Parked in front of it was my '85 station wagon that I was driving to school daily then. Next to it is the '87 Sedan that was being used as my father's daily driver when this picture was taken. I used the '87 sedan and red SX4 as my two main drivers through college. The other '87 brown station wagon was my brother's main car through college. In this picture the transmission had died after 250K miles about a month prior. It was elevated as pictured for about two months when I swapped transmissions on it. This picture was taken in 2004.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/P1010280.jpg)
-
Dang, a tuba + car parts for only a few hours of labor? That thing alone would be worth a couple hundred bucks! Nice pic.
-
I just purchased this 1980 Eagle Sport station wagon on Thursday. I've put 400 miles on it since then. It has 53K original miles. On Tuesday I purchased Bill's old station wagon as well. In the mean time I finished pulling the drivetrain from my newest SX4 and began to reassemble that one.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/1980%20Green%20SW/IMG_1862.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/1980%20Green%20SW/IMG_1859.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_1842.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_1840.jpg)
-
man I like that color, if mine didn't have a red interior, that would look sweet on it. Great score on the wagon.
-
Does that engine have a serpentine setup?
-
Nope, no serpentine. It's an '81 258 with Air Pump. I removed all the belts in that picture.
I have been looking for a speedometer solution for the two Eagles I'm currently working on. The first one is a TBI setup with a VSS that has 7/8" input and 7/8" output. The second is an MPI setup with a VSS that has 7/8" input and 5/8" output. For both of them I am using a transfer case speedometer gear and housing from a 1992 Jeep Cherokee. That housing is pictured in this first picture. It goes right into a stock Eagle transfer case or any of the "New Process" Jeep transfer cases.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/SpeedoAdaptorNeeded.jpg)
For the TBI Eagle the speedometer cable is easy. I put the 92 XJ speedometer gear and housing into the Eagle transfer case which ends in 7/8x18 male ends, then put the 7/8 female to 7/8 male VSS on it, then purchase a common 7/8 female to 5/8 female speedometer cable to go up to the Eagle speedometer, which has 5/8x18 male threads on the back. A speedometer from a J10 or a CJ7 will work, so I ended up bying a CJ7 speedometer cable for about $20 from Rockauto.
On my Eagle I also added a 40" lower cable from a 1987 Monto Carlo which has 7/8" male threads on one end and 7/8" female threads on the other. That cable goes from the transfer case up to the inside of the vehicle so that the VSS will be better protected from the weather. My VSS is under the driver seat.
For the MPI Eagle it is more difficult. In the first picture above the cheapest VSS available is pictured. Companies like Hesco offer a VSS with 7/8 threads input and output, but those cost between $80 to $120 dollars. The Mopar part costs about $30 and is readily found in junkyards. It has 7/8" input threads and 5/8" output threads. The Mopar fuel injection kit actually comes with a fancy nut that has 5/8x18 threads in the inside and 7/8x18 threads on the outside. That is pictured. If I could find that nut for sale it would be an extremely easy conversion. I haven't found it yet although I did hear of one website that may have them if you contact them. In Tougeagle's Caroline car he used a hardward store nut to accomplish the same thing, but it didn't have the correct threads so he used pipe teflon to make it wedge tightly.
I just did an exhaustive search for a vehicle with 5/8x18 female threads at both ends of the speedometer. No such car exists. The closest I found was 88 to 93 Dodge Dakota cables. Those have 5/8" at the transfer case and a chysler snap on end at the speedometer. This would work if you use an Equus 9871 Adaptor. The cheapest price I found for the Equus is $25 from JC Whitney. Some other online sites had the same part for the same price, but JC Whitney is offering a free shipping promotion that makes them the cheapest right now.
Equus 9871 Adaptor:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/Equus9871SpeedoAdaptor.jpg)
Dodge Dakote Speedo Cable:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/88to93DodgeDakotaSpeedoCable.jpg)
I'm tempted to buy the Equus adaptor and find a speedometer cable from a Dodge Dakota in the junkyard. That would give me a speedometer cable for my MPI Eagle for about $30. Alternatively I might just bite the cost and order a custom made cable. Two companies online offer to build me a custom cable with 5/8 female threads at both ends for about $60.
-
Score! A Jeep forum directed me to Speedometer Solutions. His website kinda sucks, but if you call him he has the 5/8 to 7/8 adaptors we need. The one in the picture is metal but his are plastic. They cost less than $11 plus about $6 shipping. I had just about given up trying to find that adaptor after scoring the internet and calling up two different speedometer suppliers.
http://www.speedometersolutions.com/
This picture shows the adaptor I refer to on a 88 to 92 Dodge Dakota VSS. It looks like a piece of pipe with small threads in the center and big threads on the outside. It lets you use a very common speedometer cable with 7/8" at the transfer case.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/SpeedoAdaptorNeeded.jpg)
-
Nice find Capt. , thanks for the info and update once again.
-
I should comment that the one Touge did is still surviveing as it was, but this would be an excellent solution to avoid any problems ahead.I never actually scrutinised what's here on Caroline,and had forgotten about it even till now.I was thinking that the 7/8' / 5/8' adapter looked like something that might be found in McMaster Carr , but it seems like you found a viable and cheap solution.
-
At the very end of September I purchased a green 1980 Station Wagon with 55K miles. The previous owner had rebuilt the carb and decided to plane down the intake manifold at the same time. The first shop did a crude job so he didn't pay them and paid a different shop to redo the job. A substantial amount of metal was removed. When he put it back together the gasket leaked slightly. In 1980 the intake and exhaust fit together as an assembly, so I suspect the difference from planing one and not the other caused the leak. He let the car sit for a year before selling it to me. It only needed a battery to drive home, where it also received a new exhaust pipe from the cat back donated by another parts car, a set of alloy rims and tires from my blue SX4, and clear lenses for the front.
I drove 1200 miles on it in October. To compensate for the leak in the intake the idle was turned up to low throttle, which knocked the fuel mileage down considerably. It ran smooth usually but consistantly stalled if you slowed down abruptly. I still got 18 mpg while it had that problem. Eventually it started to have severe fuel supply issues from the year-old gas that had sat in it. It sat for the month of November while I worked on it. Just a few days ago it had its maiden voyage during the first snow storm of the year.
First I pulled the gas tank and removed the clogged pickup sock. I'm using an inline fuel filter right outside the tank now, so that I won't have to remove the gas tank again to change it. Second I removed the intake and exhaust and made the changes necessary to install a 1981-87 style intake. The air pump was removed and I experimented with installing a second alternator in its place. It will work if I can dig up an alternator with two belt grooves instead of one. I also redid all of the vacuum lines and rerouted the canister to the opposite side of the engine bay in preparation to installing a dual battery system. I will eventually have two batteries, two alternators to charge them, and two starting solenoids for a completely redundant starting system.
I also installed a Howell TBI kit at the same time. The install was very simple and the car runs beautifully now. It didn’t run well at first because I had a clog in the return line back to the gas tank. When I first started it the injectors made a terrible hissing noise, obviously because of too much fuel pressure. I bypassed the return line to a portable gas tank and the problem went away. The fuel pressure regulator on the TBI doesn’t work if your return line is clogged. Now it is running well and I just need to finish the install with a few minor details.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/1980%20Green%20SW/IMG_2070.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/1980%20Green%20SW/IMG_2075.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/1980%20Green%20SW/IMG_2076.jpg)
-
Looks right at home in the snow :)
-
Looks good. Let us know what kind of milage - performance you get with the TBI,when you get done.
-
The Howell kit does not control the timing. The components are capable of that, but you need to splice into and modify the Howell wiring harness to make it happen. All MPI systems incorporate timing control. This exact kit was installed on my CJ8 Jeep Scrambler for about 100 miles before being removed for the installation of a Hesco MPI kit. On the exact same engine the difference between Hesco MPI and Howell TBI was a single MPG. I bet incorporating timing control will close that gap in half. The TBI upgrade is a great option when you consider how much performance you get for how little complexity and cost.
I purchased my CJ8 from the editors of JP magazine and the two kits were installed for a magazine article in 2004. This barely used TBI kit has sat in a box since that article. I will certainly install TBI on other cars, but I'll be making my own wiring harnesses. It is a simple harness and there is a great deal of support on the Binder Planet forum. A brand new TBI is available from rockauto for less than half what Howell charges.
My biggest complaint is the fuel pump. The Howell kit gives you one that mounts on the transmission crossmember. I actually have mine below the passenger side door. I hate the amount of noise it makes and I hate the thought of running out of gas. If you run out of gas you have to suck out the air to prime the input line because the fuel pump cannot prime itself like your old mechanical pump. I also hate that Howell charges $140 for it. I will be ordering an Oldsmobile Bravada in tank fuel pump for about $30 and adapting it to the bottom of the AMC fuel pickup. It has been done on a CJ7 install I saw in a Jeep forum. That will silence the pump and make it prime itself. I plan on keeping this inline fuel pump as a spare in case the in-tank pump ever fails on a long trip.
-
Thankfully I decided to take my 2006 Rubicon to work this week instead of the Green SW. On the way to work a tractor trailer hit my Jeep. At Exit 7 on route 78E in New Jersey the fourth and fifth lane merge into one and then become an offramp about a quarter mile later. About thirty feet after they merged together a tractor trailer swerved from the third lane into the exit lane. I was in the Exit lane going 70 MPH with my front bumper even with his rearview mirror. Our tires hit loudly and gave my Jeep a severe shudder but actually left the driver side of my Jeep undamaged. After being pushed off the road I attempted to brake. The Jeep broke loose on the loose gravel and snow slush. I barely kept it going in a straight line but could not slow down. Ahead of me the gaurdrail went right up to the side of the road while going across an overpass. The Tractor Trailor returned to the third lane just in time for me to swerve back into the fourth exit lane. As I swerved into the lane the Jeep slid sideways, so that I was 90 degrees to the left, looking right at the side of the tractor trailor.
I slid sideways for about 30 feet before my passenger side rear corner hit the gaurdrail at about 60 MPH. The Jeep spun a full 540 degrees. My fiberglass hard top has a scrape and grey paint on the passenger side corner from scraping the tractor trailer as I spun.
The tractor trailer locked up his brakes and swerved into the second lane, hitting another car and doing minor damage to his mirror. Everyone next to me and behind me locked up their brakes. I stopped the spin looking 90 degrees to the right, countersteered to go straight forward, then locked up the brakes. It broke free again and spun to the left all the way 360 degrees before coming to a stop. Thankfully everyone else had already stopped and I had all four lanes to myself for the second spin. This picture is the entire damage done.
If I was driving the AMC Eagle I would have gotten dented when he hit me but I would have maintained control afterwards. I'll always leave my Eagles in full time All Wheel Drive like they were intended to be. You never know when you will need it.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_2084.jpg)
-
Wow! What a ride. I'm very glad the damage was not worse, and that it was confined to automotive and not human parts!
-
I'll always leave my Eagles in full time All Wheel Drive like they were intended to be. You never know when you will need it.
That's how I feel about it, I don't want to have to anticipate when it might be needed and switch it on - you might get caught by surprise and it'll be too late to turn it on to help you out
Captspillane, I'm really amazed by how much knowledge a young guy like you has picked up so soon.
-
Thanks Priya. I love your motto. "I think I can... I think I can... Ooops." That's the way to learn!
-
That's actually Isoar's motto. Mine is "If I keep at it, it'll get done. If I keep at it, it'll get done..."
-
Very glad nobody got hurt. Would have hated to see that fine looking Bird getting bent. Surprised there wasn't more damage from the way you described it.
-
I guess its a trade off. If the worn 33x12.5 tires didn't have such terrible traction I certainly would have been able to slow down faster and straighter, but the complete lack of traction is probably why I spun instead of rolled. I dang well should have rolled. I was also so desperate to keep from hitting the overpass head-on I was swerving into four lanes of highway traffic on purpose. If I had enough traction I probably would have gone right into the other lanes instead of sliding sideways into the gaurdrail. When I hit the gaurdrail I was convinced it was going to roll and I was just hanging on waiting for it. When I pulled over I thought for sure both sides and all four corners would be wiped out. Its a downright miracle that was the only damage done.
This happened on Wednesday morning and I drove back to take these pictures on Sat. My skids were still visible on the side of the road but not on the road itself. You can see right where I turned abruptly toward the road and held on for a wild ride.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_2106.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_2108.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_2104.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_2111.jpg)
-
Last week I worked 105 hours. The overtime has been crazy lately. I've missed most of the last two months. I've changed jobs since then, so I'm now working as an electical engineer instead of living at sea in a two week rotation as a maritime cargo mate. The job change is in preparation for my first child due in June.
Since I last wrote an update I worked out a new rental arrangement. I share my garage with one other tenant. We repartioned the building to add 24' by 36' (with 14' ceiling height) floor space to the rear of my current garage. I just finished building a new wall and am ready to start moving in this month. I've currently got three Eagle SX4's and an Eagle Kammback in my garage along with a dozen AMC engines and 15 Jeep transmissions. It is getting too crowded to work efficiently, so the extra space is an answer to a prayer.
I've also purchased another Eagle. This '85 Station Wagon spent most of it's life in Idaho. It is one of the most rust free Eagles I've ever seen. It is also a factory T5 stickshit five-speed. The interior color exactly matches the exterior blue. It is very well maintained and has become my daily driver.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/null_zps6c9336ee.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/null_zps6c9336ee.jpg.html)
-
It is also a factory T5 stickshit five-speed.
Is that a typo, or are you indicating you're not too fond of the T5? ;D
-
:rotfl:
Good to see life is treating you well.
-
The T5 is a perfect transmission for a stock Eagle. It's a shame that they weren't more common. I even love the way the factory bent the Eagle shift lever in comparison to Jeep T5s. In a Jeep CJ7 the T5 shifter is quite awkard compared to how it rests in an Eagle. I surely couldn't pass up a factory installed shickshift Eagle SW. It's just too fun to drive and too rare.
I'm still in awe to own what is basically the exact station wagon I've wanted for as long as I can remember. My first Eagle station wagon was a typical diarrhea-brown '85 automatic 258. As much as I liked that car, I always desperately wished it was stickshift and any other color. My least favorite color is light brown. I was actively planning on painting it Blue and Black and converting it to a T5 five speed. I never thought for a moment that I would eventually find one set up that way from the factory. It's even the same model year as my first Eagle station wagon. I love it.
This car was driven daily about two hours a day for the last several years. The previous owner sold it because he has bought two other automatic Eagle station wagons recently and he disliked driving stickshift in the heavy city traffic each day. In the last year both front wheel bearings have been replaced, the carter carb was replaced, new shocks, and a long list of other reliability improvements made. I've got my own typical list of minor improvements and repairs to complete this month but it is already a great car to drive.
-
The NP231 transfer case has 1) 2WD, 2) "Part-time 4WD" where both output yokes are locked together, and 3) fully locked 2Low.
The NP242 has exactly the same thing (the three positions of "2WD," "Part-time 4WD," and "2Low") but it adds a fourth "Full-time 4WD" position where both output yokes are connected by an open differential. The open differential connection is the same as any basic "All-Wheel Drive" system.
In fact, it is pretty accurate to describe the AMC Eagle NP119 as just an open differential Full-time 4WD because it is designed to never use the limited slip function in normal conditions. Its not really a limited slip differential at all because it never fully engages anything, unlike a true limited slip differential. The viscous coupling doesn't engage quickly, it hesitates until enough slipping has occured to generate enough heat inside the viscous coupling to lock up. It doesn't actually lock up either, since it really just increases resistance to an output which changes the ratio of resistance first and then causes a change in the ratio of torque split second. If that statement doesn't make sense to you, read my FYI at the bottom of this reply.
A true limited slip differential that reacts immediately to slip conditions is only found in the NP247. That transfer case has a clutch system that made the viscous coupling systems instantly obsolete. It reacts in much less time than the NP119, NP219, or NP249. It generates much more holding force. Realistically the difference between a NP219 and a NP242 in "Full-time 4WD" is negligible.
Since the NP242 has all the modes the NP231 has plus an extra, it wouldn't make sense to ever buy a NP231. The reason people like the 231 so much is that it has a reputation of being stronger. That's a myth that started because the NP231 has a wider chain then the NP242. Bigger is better right? The NP242 has a chain only about two thirds as wide as the NP231 chain because of the internal space needed for the extra functions added. Despite the smaller chain, New Process designated the NP242 with a "4" in the second digit. A "4" means it is stronger than a "3". If it has a smaller chain and weaker reputation, why would the factory label it as stronger?
The reason the NP242 is considered stronger than the NP231 by the factory is because it incorporates a torque bias. In other words when you are locked in "Part-time 4WD" 60% of the applied engine torque goes to the rear axle and only 40% of the applied engine torque goes to the front axle. Most Jeep guys think that the NP231 will hold up better than the NP242 with huge tires because they see the wider chain and they think it will perform better offroad because it doesn't have a torque bias. In reality the front axle of most vehicles, especially AMC Eagles, have a front axle that is much less as strong as the rear axle because of the added complexity of steering. A torque bias then is the only way to get the most strength out of your car as a whole.
Thus why the military Humvees use the NP242 and not the NP231. It's stronger and more capable despite the reputation.
FYI An open differential splits torque by a ratio exactly opposite the ratio of wheel resistance. Lock up all four brakes and all four wheels will have the same rolling resistance, so all four wheels get the same engine torque applied. Remove the brake shoes from one wheel and leave the rest locked up, and suddenly one wheel will have no rolling resistance while the other three still have a high resistance. Since it has 0% of the rolling resistance the other wheels have, it will get 100% of the engine torque. If one wheel had 10% of the rolling resistance of the others, than it will receive 90% of the applied engine torque, and so forth. In a turn this is a good thing because the wheel that needs to go faster will be pulled by the wheel that needs to go slower, so it will have less resistance and thus get more engine torque than the other. An open differential will let the outside wheel go faster than the inside wheel naturally and smoothly during a turn.
During a slippery condition where one wheel has considerably less traction and thus less rolling resistance than the other, it will unfortunately recieve a larger amount of engine torque than the other until eventually it is the only wheel spinning. A limited slip differential engages once the difference in wheel rotation speed gets too big. When it engages it locks the two together either fully or in a given ratio. This prevents the car from getting stuck.
A viscous coupler is not the same thing as a limited slip differential. Instead of locking together mechanically, it simply increases resistance to one wheel spinning faster or slower than the other as it heats up. The increased viscosity of the oil as it heats puts resistance on the faster wheel until the ratio of rolling resistance increases. In consequence of the rolling resistance increasing the ratio of applied engine torque likewise decreases, which gives a similar end result as a true limited slip differential would behave.
In summary the viscous coupler behaves just like a limited slip differential when subtle improvements in traction are needed, but in severe conditions the viscous coupler doesn't do diddly-squat. It isn't much better than any other open differential. With a NP242 you have the option of just clicking it into "Part-time 4WD" for reliable operation in severe conditions.
Notice too that the NP119 can not run in 4WD without a front driveshaft. That is because it reduces the rolling resistance in the front yoke to nearly zero while the rear yoke has 100%. The open differential design wants to then give the front yoke 100% of the engine torque and the rear yoke 0%. The viscous coupler will be able to keep the car moving for a short distance before it gives up and dies. With an NP242 the open differential in "Full-time 4WD" will not be able to push the car without a front driveshaft, but you still have the option of shifting into "Part-time 4WD." Once you do that you can drive the car just fine with immediate traction.
-
The NP242 and NP249 both use a case with the same bolt pattern as the NP219/119/129/128/228. You could actually bolt the rear housing from an Eagle to the front housing of an NP242. It is based off the same casting and it would be fair to call those newer transfer cases the improved version of our AMC Eagle transfer cases. The NP231 on the other hand has a completely different casting and a completely different bolt pattern.
One of the major improvements made was the addition of a oil pump. The NP242 and NP249 both have the same identical pump that spins along with the rear driveshaft. As it spins it pumps oil up to important places. The NP219 family of transfer cases never had this feature.
It is ironic that this topic came up today here on the nest. I had a detailed conversation at work about the tooling necessary to make a custom input shaft. I figured out earlier that I can bolt the viscous coupler housing from an NP249 to the back of the NP242 case. If you put the main gearshaft from both next to each other, you'll see that they are identical up until a specific point. At that point where it changes the profile is exactly the same. That means I could create a custom gearshaft easily that would use all factory parts to make a hybrid of the NP242 and NP249.
To be exact, I see exactly how to make a 242 transfer case with the added traction of a viscous coupler while in "full-time" mode. It would take exactly one part to be produced with dimensions already known precisely. I might have the tooling available to me to be able to make that single part in quantity.
I dream of being able to make a large number of these shafts and send them to people as a business. You would buy an NP249 and an NP242 from a junkyard and this shaft from me to assemble all the parts needed. As an option I could also modify shafts to incorporate other factory standard New Process components including a Rubicon 4:1 low range found only in the NP241OR transfer case. All other low ranges have a 2.72:1 ratio. I could also incorporate wider chains and the better NP247 limited slip as well as SYE kits. It would create the ideal AMC Eagle transfer case with a very limited amount of cost.
-
Among a great many other things, the company I recently started working for makes tube processing machinery. Here is a link:
http://emi-inc.net/n-5-Tube-Processing-Center
-
Shoulda, woulda, coulda....
-
You are all invited to my home on June 29 and 30 2013 for the first Solstic Meet. I will be extending the same invitation annually at the end of June and the middle of December, at or near the Winter and Summer Solstice.
This month my first daughter is due to be born, so I've been busy preparing our home for her. I'm also in the middle of repairing a damaged Eagle owned by a Nest member and finishing my '82 SX4. I will put up pictures soon of these efforts.
The next detail to finish on that SX4 is the louvers. After making this set by hand I will be posting pictures and putting the design for sale using the services of the local laser-cutting company to ease the pain of manufacturing. The second set of louvers I make will be for my blue station wagon. The idea is to make those louvers attach to the inside of a panel modeled after the "Sport" side window panels, to make a complete set across all three of the rear windows.
I have my '85 and '80 Eagle station wagons to share the role as my daily driver. They're beautiful and fun to drive, but I miss my SX4 greatly. It is exciting to almost have it done.
-
This is excellent! If you need help setting up/preparing/repairing or whatever beforehand, I would be glad to help. I'd certainly have to ask first, but my mom's place would be a great meeting spot. Depends on how the "sale" is going by then, mainly.
-
Congrats on the future child. I'd love to be apart of the June meet, but my sister is coming in the week before and I will have to take off some work then.
-
@Captspillane...Many thanks for sharing your expertise and your hospitality on this forum. And congrats on the expected arrival of your child. I'm a bit too far away to attend the Solstic Meet this time as my vacation time is already spoken for. :eagle:
-
Congrats on the upcoming introduction of the new Eaglet! Enjoy every minute with her, they grow up fast.
Hopefully you'll get some Nesters to turn out for the Solstice Meet, sounds like a good time.
-
I should be able to make that weekend. Congrats on the baby!
-
I haven't posted here since photobucket changed their layout. It was aggravating to figure out how to manipulate their new website. I think I have it all figured out now tho, so it's time to start catching this thread up to date.
That's what an AMC 401 looks like in the back of an XJ. This was me picking up the first 401 for my red SX4. The engine was 5 hours away, so I opted to take the XJ instead of the other trucks available. The engine hoist came and left with me too, so it was a tight fit inside. I've since gotten a nicer 401, so this is set aside for my J10 now.
The other photo is my white SX4 earning it's keep with lumber bound for Civil Air Patrol's Hawk Mountain Ranger School.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/10-12-11_1948.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/Eagleweb%20Postings/10-12-11_1948.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0330.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0330.jpg.html)
-
For my Green Eagle wagon I looked up the formula to calculate exactly what speedometer gear I needed. I selected a thirty tooth gear and it is not a noticeable difference from the ideal number.
G=(20168xDxC)/(KxT)=(20168x3.07x13)/(1000x27.11)=29.69 desired teeth on speedometer gear
D=Differential Gear Ratio=3.07
C=Number of teeth inside the Transfer Case=13 for all the new process cases
K=1000=The Revolutions per Mile of the Speedometer, which is always 1000 for Eagles
T=Tire diameter in decimal inches
T=28.88 for 235/75R15 tires
T=27.70 for 215/75R15 tires
T=27.11 for 205/75R15 tires
T=26.52 for 195/75R15 tires (stock size for most AMC Eagles)
-
Thumbs up given.
-
My 5 speed wagon gave a fit for the last few days. The solenoid died as all Eagle Solenoids die and I quick put on my brand new never used spare. That didn't work at all. I finally put the old one back on, the same solenoid that had just died. This time I ran a new ground wire from the block directly to a big hole drilled into the base of the solenoid. It works perfectly and crisply now.
I got sparks and occasional starter kicks before adding the ground wire. That's totally normal for this problem.
The solenoids simply need 12V to the top forward post and ground to the bottom to work. If you know you have a strong 12V to the top post, which I checked with an old SX4 hatch release button, and it doesn't work than you must not have ground. Automatics get ground from the post, which has a very :censored: crimp connector that barely conducts from a network of :censored: tiny wires with terrible ends going back to the :censored: problematic Neutral Safety switches. Manual transmission solenoids like this one get ground soley from the back bracket, which in turn only gets ground by two very tiny very rusty :censored: old screws with a very small contact area to rusty sheet metal going to :censored: unreliable body ground straps. The system doesn't stand a chance at working reliably. A great number of Eagles have been sent to the crusher for this flaw.
Stock solenoids are horrible until you drill a honking huge hole in the base and run the biggest ground wire you can to it. Works great now. You'll also notice in the pictures that I replaced all the rings on the power side of the solenoid. Those are notorious for breaking internally and the rubber hiding it from view. They are oddball wires with very tiny cores and very thick rubber sheathing because they are designed as fusible links that will sacrifice themselves in the event of a short.
I replace every automatic solenoid with a manual one without the post in all my cars immediately upon taking ownership. In ten years I've never accidently lurched my automatic Eagle forward by starting it when it wasn't in Park already. I'm confident I never will. I have however started my stalled Eagle while driving countless times. It is a huge assistance to be able to turn the key without shifting into neutral. I despise the Neutral Safety Switch and will not tolerate it limiting my control of my vehicle. Do not lecture me on this being unsafe. I highly recommend this modification to everyone.
First picture shows the new hole and bolt I drilled right through the base of the solenoid:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps10a1462b.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps10a1462b.jpg.html)
The second picture shows the other end of the cable grabbing the ground at the engine block:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps4f3ce4ae.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps4f3ce4ae.jpg.html)
This picture shows the jumper I made for testing and remote starting. Push the button and the starter turns. Leave the key in the ignition turned to the run position and hit this button, the car will start:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps440b96a6.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Solenoid%20Fix/null_zps440b96a6.jpg.html)
-
Thanks for the great tips. Yes those remote starter buttons were handy back in the day when one worked on Fords and AMC's.
-
I've gotten Monroe Sensa-Track coil over shocks for the front. While installing them I found that it is tricky. They are the correct length and they match up without too much hassle, but there are two big catches. The bottom mounting holes are a little too wide and you need a smaller set of bolts and some nuts to space with. that's not too bad. The next problem was that the bottom shock mount is just barely too big to fit through the hole at the top of the shock housing. It needs a very small amount removed with a grinder to enlarge the hole. It is not a big deal since it is covered by the mounting bracket, but at the same time most people won't want to make a permaneant change like that.
Monroe Sensa-trak 58510 for Rear Eagle coil shocks, $59.79 last time I got them from Rockauto
Monroe Sensa-trak 58270 for front. $47.79 from Rockauto last time. Shipping was $8.87.
-
Thanks for the heads up on the sensa trac shocks for the front!
-
I grabbed this quote and posted here because I always forget where the heck it is. I've been going through and collecting what info we think we know about Eagle front D30 gear options. Hopefully soon I'll start offering kits to regear the problem axles and at the same time I want to solve the locker limitations. Of the stuff I collected there are quite a few people saying contradicting observations so I'll have to sort through them and bust some myths.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/phredcdobbs/Eagle235001.jpg?t=1254034266)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/phredcdobbs/Eagle235002.jpg?t=1254034426)
-
Here are some pictures I want to be able to get to quickly. Credit goes to Eaglefreek for doing an awesome job modifiying his Eagle and also making an awesome effort to share his efforts in photos and advice. These photos were originally posted at the Evolution forum at the link included.
http://forums.amcevolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1915
Here's a pic of mine. If you look at the floor pan there is a flat spot where the lever needs to go. The Eagle floor pan was definitely designed with the thought of adding a low range lever. Mine now operates my 242 transfer case. Please excuse the dirty carpet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_15-49-31_796_zps2783dd28.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_15-49-31_796_zps2783dd28.jpg.html)
I don't remember exactly what I did, but I used the NP229 linkage as a guide, but made a new one since it needed to go with the 229 when I sold it. It took a couple tries to get the measurements right, but, it works great. However, there are no stops so you have to make sure you know by feel what mode you want to select. I flipped the lever on the transfer case so it was facing up, instead of down. It required a little grinding so that it would go through the full range.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_13-09-54_920_zps40ed1c3d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_13-09-54_920_zps40ed1c3d.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_13-09-41_218_zpsbb0b27ba.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_13-09-41_218_zpsbb0b27ba.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/svoman2300/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_15-05-49_369_zpsd06e5d64.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/svoman2300/media/AW4%20Swap/2013-08-13_15-05-49_369_zpsd06e5d64.jpg.html)
-
For the rear shocks on all my Eagles I use Monroe 58510. I paid $60 for the pair last time at Rockauto. They work extremely well to compensate for worn rear leaf springs and work well with new leaf springs and a rear sway bar to be perfectly stiff the way I like it, which is a little less stiff than a Jeep Cherokee but still great for towing and utility.
For the front there are matching coil-over shocks available. They are Monroe 58270. They are intended for the rear of a Chevy car so you just need to put that part number into the search bar at Rockauto and it will come right up. I paid $50 for a pair of those. The coil over spring is pretty light and it is will not compensate for bad coil springs. I put long bolts on the bottom with nuts as spacers and it works well to attach to the lower perch. They don't quite fit through the hole and I had to run a drill bit against the hole and enlarge it by just a little bit to make them fit through.
-
Here is the low-down on AMC coil springs. Each number gets progressively stiffer. These are all the options available from Moog, Raysbestos, and ACDelco for 1970-88 AMC Eagles, Gremlins, Javelins, Concords, and Spirits.
All these coil springs have an inside diameter of 5.02" and a load height of 9.5."
Most of them have a coil bar diameter of 0.69." None of them have a larger diameter. Some Light duty applications have smaller diameters. The smallest bar diameter available is 0.656."
The "Free Height" varies from 14.69" to 16.59." Changing the free height is the primary way that AMC accounted for small differences in weight according to the options and size of the vehicle. No coil springs are listed as available for Eagles because the factory Eagle springs varied slightly in free height from right to left to account for the offset engine. In practice the difference is negligible and I have given up on old plans to mix different springs from this list to make my own Eagle mismatched pairs..
I included the load rating for the Moog part numbers in parenthesis. I don't have that number for the Raysbestos and AC Delco part numbers. Moog only has four sizes total with the necessary 5.02" and 9.5" dimensions. [3140 at "1490" load rate, 3112 at "1591," 3156 at "1690," and stiffest 3118 at "1789" load rate]. Searching through Rockauto, I found that they only show three, sometimes only two, of the four sizes anywhere. I found the other size directly from Moog's master list.
Incidentally Rockauto has many flaws in their listings. The same car and options come up with different choices depending on what year you try. The biggest one is that they show springs for a '73 401 Javelin that are smaller than a '73 360 Javelin and not even listed as an option for '72 Javelins, even though we know better. There is a huge difference in weight from a 401 to a 360 and the listings are obviously swapped. No where does Rockauto identify Moog 3118 even though that is the appropriate size for a 401 Javelin. I don't know if that part number or an equivalent is even in production. The aftermarket takes some liberties compared to what AMC actually made a few decades ago.
Captain Spillane's Comprehensive List of Available AMC Coil Spring Sizes
Stiffness increases as the Number increases
1) Bar Diameter 0.656" and 14.81" Free Height:
Raysbestos 5851090 and AC Delco 45H0090
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L stickshift w/AC
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L Auto w/o AC
2) 0.656" and 14.94"
Raysbestos 5851089 and Moog 3140 and AC Delco 45H0089
(Moog 3140 has a Load rate of 1490)
E.G. AMC Spirit with 2.5L Automatic w/AC
E.G. AMC Concord with 4.2L stickshift w/AC
E.G. AMC Concord with 4.2L Automatic w/o AC
3) 0.687" and 14.38"
Moog 3112
(Moog 3112 has a Load rate of 1591)
E.G. AMC Concord 4.2L Automatic w/o AC
E.G. AMC Spirit w/304 V8 stickshift w/o AC
4) 0.690" and 14.69"
Raysbestos 5851077 and AC Delco 45H0077
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/o AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/304 V8 w/manual trans w/o AC
E.G. AMC Javelin 4.2L Automatic w/AC
5) 0.687" and 14.92"
Moog 3156
(Moog 3156 has a Load rate of 1690)
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/304 V8 w/manual trans w/AC
6) 0.690" and 15.02"
Raysbestos 5851161 and AC Delco 45H0161
E.G. AMC Concord w/auto trans w/AC
E.G. AMC Javelin w/360 V8 w/auto trans w/o AC
7) 0.690" and 15.38
Moog 3118
(Moog 3118 has a Load rate of 1789)
E.G. AMC Javelin w/360 V8 w/auto trans w/AC
8.) 0.690" and 16.59"
AC Delco 45H0082
E.G. AMC Javelin w/401 w/auto trans w/AC
-
That post previous to this one was a copy of a pretty old post of mine that I'm currently using to put together a rockauto order right now. I find myself going through my own postings pretty often and this project thread has become for me a place to get the useful ones all together in one spot. Current pricing as of October 2014 is:
2) Moog 3140 (1490 lb load, 0.65 bar, 14.94 in height, 276 lbs/in spring rate): $66.79 (Closest to factory Eagle coils)
3) Moog 3112 (1591 lb load, 0.68 bar, 14.38 in height, 307 lbs/in spring rate): $70.12
5) Moog 3156 (1690 lb load, 0.68 bar, 14.92 in height, 311 lbs/in spring rate): $63.89 (The ones I usually use)
7) Moog 3118 (1789 lb load): Unavailable
4) Raysbestos 5851077 (1591 lb load, 0.69 bar, 14.69 in height, 307 lbs/in spring rate): $77.79
AC Delco 45H0077 (0.69 bar, 14.69 in height): $84.89
6) Raysbestos 5851161 (1690 lb load, 0.69 bar, 15.02 in height, 311 lbs/in spring rate): $70.79
AC Delco 45H0161 (0.69 bar, 15.02 in height): $81.79
8.) AC Delco 45H0082 (0.69 bar, 16.59 in height): $76.79
-
Random MOOG Coil Spring Specs:
I put this list together tonight for a couple different Eagle related reasons. First I'm curious about making a better version of front shock coil-overs to assist tired old original springs without needing to remove the old ones (thus the 800 pound load options mixed in, which is about a third of the ideal load value). Second I'd like to make my own spring perches for use with a spacer block for an easy "body lift" that would require a spring about 17 inches free height versus the stock 15 inch but have about the same load rate. Third I'd like to think about subframe repair options that could require the one inch smaller diameter spring that I found quite a few factory options available for. I figure this list took about an hour to compile and someone else may have use for the same information.
I bolded the one I'll probably buy soon to experiment with. The load rate is the most important number, and I figure the factory Eagle at around 270 lbs/in is a little too soft for me and the 311 lbs/in was just about perfectly stiff in my past 4.2L rebuilds. That made it easy to select the one with 17 inch free height and 303 lb/in. It comes to a price much cheaper per pair too. I'm also very curious about just how stiff it would be to try the 460 lbs/in option in a 4.2L Eagle, which even happens to be cheaper yet. It may also be perfectly stiff paired with the extra weight of the 401 V8. I prefer stiff suspensions in cars like my '92 XJ or former 2006 TJ Rubicon but obviously not stupid stiff like my Scout currently is.
These advertised load numbers are only useful for comparison and the actual load rate will vary with the resting weight of the vehicle. To get the same intended ride characteristics and true observed load rate the published load rate chosen from this list has to be adjusted along with engine and AC choices. I like that this smaller coil diameter size has much more options available to choose from and a half inch change in radius is reasonable to still look like the factory coil options.
The first number in total load rating for the spring depends on the difference between load height and free height, which I didn't record. The load height for AMC coils is intended to be 9.5" regardless of the free height. The other spring I selected, Moog 5276, had an intended load height of 10.5", which is consistant with the goal of lowering the crossmember and upper control arm pivot point by an inch with a spacer block and new subframe mounting holes without changing the height of the top of the shock tower.
I don't mind making significant changes as long as the geometry stays the same as AMC originally engineered. I happen to be boxing in the old subframe with a stronger one with the same profile but an inch lower in depth. The factory strut rod bracket, crossmember, control arms, ball joints, and all the complex stuff will be in the same place relative to each other as they have always been. I've had too many shock towers rust through where they connect to the subframe so I'm incorporating new bullet proof mounting holes for the upper control arm. The only reason a new spring perch may be necessary is because of the smaller 4.09 ID coil spring and I may be just making a single CNC cut spacer block that bolts to the old shock attachment holes and adapts the old spring perch to the new coil size as well as providing new holes higher up for the original front shocks to bolt to. Long term I'd like to have the spacer block be the fast, dirty, and cheap option with a roller bearing pivot perch as another option.
Part of the motivation to provide one inch of lift is to put the front axle one inch lower under the engine. This gives me room to use the heavy duty front axle from a 2002 Chevy 1500. I already have one and it measures to about a half inch less in total width than the original Eagle axle. That is perfect to give me room for a simple bolt pattern reducer at the CV joint flanges. I'm also curious about giving clearance for the larger easier to find Jeep oil pans because I'm running low on Eagle oil pans that haven't rusted through. I'm hoping I can lift an inch at the crossmember and also lower an inch at the same time thanks to the angle of the control arms to give the same factory bumper height with just an inch of ground clearance lost. I don't actually like lifting Eagles but it may be a necessary evil that I will end up doing often in the course of rust repair. I also see another possibility of cleanly eliminating the 1" front wheel spacers I use with the deep factory alloy rims by pushing both control arms out an inch during this subframe modification.
It happens to be the coil spring from a '70 to '85 Chevy Camaro. The stiffer spring I'll probably use with my 401 V8 SX4 is from a '71 Cadillac Deville with a 7.7L V8. What is pretty cool is I then looked up those cars identified by the constant rate options I went through in this list and found additional variable rate spring options. That also shows some promise to make my car have exactly the ride quality I want in the huge range of uses I want to drive it for.
On a related note I think its amusing that someone recently bought tired old four cylinder springs to "lower" their six cylinder Eagle. When you lower a vehicle you need to increase spring rate to decrease how much travel your suspension moves as you hit bumps. It would make more sense to buy a much stiffer spring with a higher load rate then cut down the free height if you want to lower your car. Being stiff is better than being floppy and smacking the bump stop in a jolt at every pothole.
AMC COIL SPRINGS
Moog 3140: 1490 lb load rate, 0.65 bar, 14.94 in height, 276 lbs/in, 5.02 in ID: $66.79
Moog 3112: 1591 lb load rate, 0.68 bar, 14.38 in height, 307 lbs/in 5.02 in ID: $70.12
Moog 3156: 1690 lb load rate, 0.68 bar, 14.92 in height, 311 lbs/in, 5.02 in ID: $63.89
SORTED BY COIL DIAMETER FIRST THEN PRICE PER PAIR SECOND
Moog 2278: 868 lbs, 0.60 bar, 11.00 in height, 435 lbs/in, 3.42 in ID: $76.79
Moog 5230: 1884 lbs, 0.60 bar, 18.25 in height, 251 lbs/in, 3.62 in ID: $60.79
Moog 5244: 2124 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.75 in height, 315 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $66.99
Moog 5370: 2022 lbs, 0.64 bar, 15.94 in height, 357 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $68.79
Moog 5256: 2174 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.91 in height, 315 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $76.99
Moog 5234: 2025 lbs, 0.62 bar, 17.81 in height, 297 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $78.79
Moog 5272: 2279 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.99 in height, 327 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $78.79
Moog 5374: 1957 lbs, 0.64 bar, 17.17 in height, 317 lbs/in, 3.63 in ID: $79.79
Moog 5032: 3125 lbs, 0.75 bar, 16.44 in height, 460 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $45.79
Moog 5276: 1981 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.05 in height, 303 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $49.79
Moog 5006: 2480 lbs, 0.68 bar, 16.88 in height, 355 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5030: 2900 lbs, 0.71 bar, 17.05 in height, 419 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5044: 2360 lbs, 0.68 bar, 18.06 in height, 334 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $62.79
Moog 5332: 2308 lbs, 0.65 bar, 18.25 in height, 298 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $63.79
Moog 3226: 834 lbs, 0.51 bar, 17.25 in height, 134 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $64.79
Moog 5330: 2300 lbs, 0.67 bar, 18.52 in height, 306 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $65.79
Moog 3224: 719 lbs, 0.51 bar, 16.39 in height, 134 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $68.79
Moog 5378: 2062 lbs, 0.67 bar, 18.51 in height, 294 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $69.79
Moog 5376: 1886 lbs, 0.67 bar, 17.92 in height, 319 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $76.89
Moog 5278: 2083 lbs, 0.65 bar, 17.50 in height, 298 lbs/in, 4.09 in ID: $77.79
Moog 5270: 2550 lbs, 0.70 bar, 17.94 in height, 362 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $80.79
Moog 5268: 2450 lbs, 0.70 bar, 17.62 in height, 370 lbs/in, 4.08 in ID: $82.99
Moog 5282: 2810 lbs, 0.71 bar, 17.50 in height, 411 lbs/in, 4.04 in ID: $106.99
Moog 2203: 515 lbs, 0.47 bar, 15.42 in height, 95 lbs/in, 4.25 in ID: $60.79
-
Just to add to your collection: (Javelin, etc. Only listing)
Part Number: NCP 2772078
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 6.8
Coil Spring Free Height : 14.69"
Coil Spring I.D. : 5.02"
Coil Spring Load Height : 9.5"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Pigtail End
Design Load : 1591
Spring Rate : 307
Wire Diameter : .69"
'77 Matador:
Part Number: NCP 2772098
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 7.12
Coil Spring Free Height : 16.59"
Coil Spring I.D. : 5.02"
Coil Spring Load Height : 9"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Pigtail End
Design Load : 2013
Spring Rate : 272
Wire Diameter : .69"
Pacer springs (only AMC they are listed for but LOTS pf GMs)
Part Number: NCP 2773108
Product Line: NAPA Chassis Parts
Attributes:
# Coil Spring Coils : 8.95
Coil Spring Free Height : 15.38"
Coil Spring I.D. : 4.09"
Coil Spring Load Height : 11"
Coil Spring Type : 1 Tangential End; 1 Square End
Design Load : 1520
Spring Rate : 347
Wire Diameter : .672"
-
This is basically the same exact thing I was planning to do with all those new coil springs I posted. It is awesome to see someone else thinking the same thing and even doing further research than I have time to do. Thanks!
Here is something else I found the other day
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/DownwardFlame/Mobile%20Uploads/1z2j9zn.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/DownwardFlame/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1z2j9zn.jpg.html)
It's a hybrid coil over set up that still uses the factory upper spring mount. It would give you a couple inches of adjustable ride height and roller perch (kinda). I've been considering going this route on my mustang. The guy made a list of part numbers, and I looked them up on summit racing. It would cost about $560 to get the parts (free shipping!). The cool part, is that since your not making any changes to the factory components, i could have them installed in a couple hours and could easily have it back to stock just as quickly.
-
You have that list of part numbers. Looking to better the ride on my eagle. You say this will all work without altering the other stock components. Mostly street driving with occasional sand off roading
-
I often copy a second copy of my own posts and other ones that I want to find quickly into this thread. If you're asking me for first hand experience please notice that it is a quote with the person who originally posted it given credit at the top.
I have been gone for quite a long time for a number of rather good reasons. I'm still on this side of the ground and usually on this side of the bars.
-
This is great information well worth saving.
They are for '62 -'67 Chevy II/Nova, Pontiac Acadian. '68 Nova is 1.5" inch shorter with different ends
NS 5756 specifications
Lower Mount : SP
Shock Compressed Length : 10"
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Extended Length : 15.5"
Shock Travel Length : 5.5"
Upper Mount : S4
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P1137 & P423
RR 94104 (listed for the Eagle at NAPA)
Attributes:
Lower Mount : Special Mount
Shock Compressed Length : 8.5"
Shock Extended Length : 12.875"
Shock Travel Length : 4.375"
Upper Mount : Stem 3/8" x 16
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P423 & P840
If you already have good shocks but need an inch or so length, there is shock extenders. I needed 3" longer for my Comanche so I made my own with water pipe that I tapped the inside to fit the shock and exhaust stud I was using as an extension.
I can post a pic (on my Comanche) I also had to use chain clamps the pipe to keep the studs in because they were turned undersize.
If the Chevy II ones are too long and the listed shock is too short, then the other option is
NS 5809 or RR 94061
Lower Mount : SP
Shock Compressed Length : 9"
Shock Dust Shield : No
Shock Extended Length : 13.625"
Shock Travel Length : 4.625"
Upper Mount : S4
Shock Parts Pack Part # : P1136 & P423
-
Here are some photos I promised a long time ago. These are taken from my June 2014 meet. The grey wagon is a guy in high school who works at his father's speed shop. They have a very nice AMC Javelin with mustang T5 conversion and an award winning hill-climb AMC Gremlin. He built a turbo system for his wagon. He had just finished it that week and was already planning a number of improvements.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Summer%20Solstice%20Meet/null_zps9341065b.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Summer%20Solstice%20Meet/null_zps9341065b.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Summer%20Solstice%20Meet/null_zpsfd706d3d.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Summer%20Solstice%20Meet/null_zpsfd706d3d.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps4e22d495.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps4e22d495.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps24def0ee.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps24def0ee.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps27091ffe.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps27091ffe.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps80c338be.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps80c338be.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps5b1b814a.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zps5b1b814a.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zpsacc4c774.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2014%20Eagle%20Web/Brian%20Turbo/null_zpsacc4c774.jpg.html)
-
My Kammback is back in the shop this week. It is a budget build. I have less than $1,500 into this car including a really long list of parts. I put a Hornet front end on it from a '77 I've had around. I've modified station wagon rear bumper flares for it. I had the local shop rebuild the rear axle for $400. I bought it for $500 and drove it home after about four hours of rebuilding the front in a parking lot. I replaced the SR4 four speed with a T5. I spent a great deal of time fixing the damage from the front axle falling off on the previous owner. I bought new tires for it. I swapped the transmission in 2012. I painted it in 2013. I finally put the new tires on it in October of 2014. I'll finally be finishing the trim this month.
All of these pictures are over a year old.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_8150_zpspwhy5jnw.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_8150_zpspwhy5jnw.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_8151_zpslyg6kgsh.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_8151_zpslyg6kgsh.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_9794_zpsw20oqxai.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_9794_zpsw20oqxai.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_9786_zpsoqkdzbpl.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Blue%20Kammy/IMG_9786_zpsoqkdzbpl.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Hornet%20Front%20End/null_zps58cdb2e8.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Hornet%20Front%20End/null_zps58cdb2e8.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Hornet%20Front%20End/null_zps44f17c76.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2013%20Eagle%20Web/Hornet%20Front%20End/null_zps44f17c76.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/DSCF0896.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2012%20Eagle%20Web/DSCF0896.jpg.html)
-
Some work coming together currently:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9204_zps98zoyzfl.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9204_zps98zoyzfl.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9210_zpsayd9atqd.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9210_zpsayd9atqd.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9490_zpstxtab2oq.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9490_zpstxtab2oq.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9488_zpse0xcxz8x.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9488_zpse0xcxz8x.jpg.html)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9489_zpsrtsdsnrl.jpg) (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/captspillane/media/2015%20Eagle%20Web/Als%20Eagle/IMG_9489_zpsrtsdsnrl.jpg.html)
-
Nice.
-
I missed the pics of the Kammback all painted! Very cool! I like the look of the Hornet front end. Looks a little off on the match up by the door though.
-
Looks a little off on the match up by the door though.
That's an understatement. This one had a crash against the door in its past and the passenger side fitment is affected. I might end up having to swap doors out if I can't get it closer. The hood is also affected and it used to stick up considerably on the passenger side. Looking at the last picture in primer grey when I first got it you might be able to spot how the back passenger side corner of the hood sticks up about a half inch above the fender. I had to work with the hinge for awhile to bet it back to an okay position.
You might also be looking at the way the Hornet fender doesn't line up with the rocker. That is because the Hornet opening isn't cut out yet in those pictures. I had to cut back to make the fender line up with the rocker then cleaned up the edge and hid the work behind Eagle fender flares. None of the trim is painted and most of it is still missing. I just put it in the garage to finally finish the trim and fender placement.
-
Here are two videos I just uploaded from the first Perkiomen Solstice Meet in June of 2013. My daughter was only three weeks old then.
The idea behind the annual Solstice Meets is to make videos and conduct activities that teach and encourage the restoration of these cars. As the meets grow in scope and attendence I will be doing things like rebuilding transmissions and describing mechanical parts in detail one at a time. All of the knowledge and resources created during these meets will be posted to encourage people like the younger version of myself who want to fix their Eagle up and just don't know what they don't know to start.
It's slightly shameful that it took almost two years to post them but it should also be encouraging to those people waiting for me to follow through with the many projects I've undertaken. It should only be another year or two before I catch up and get them all done.
How to Determine Axle Ratio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-M_J00romA&feature=youtu.be
How to operate a Valve Spring removal tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92D_TPxkb8&feature=youtu.be
-
Thanks for the videos, good info
-
I'm really looking forward to coming down, see you in about a month!
-
Years ago now for you but I plan going the same route you went with the leaf spring hardware, shackles, and eyelets. Time to redo all of the rear suspension on my 85 Sedan. I have CJ7 eyelets and 1.5" lifted CJ7 shackles. The trunk and pedestal will also be chopped and a reinforced plate added . That leaves me the rest to figure out. What did you do for the actual leaf springs? CJ7 springs or eagle springs with add-a-leaf? I may have missed it. I know there are plenty of factors to consider but wondering what you did for your application.
Thanks alot, awesome work.
-
Capt are you still alive?
-
From what I understand, a lot of people have tried unsuccessfully to contact the Capt.
-
Still no sign from him.
-
Kinda like a mystery at this point? Innit? I heard of him on a few different threads, Most noticeably someone taking legal action against him to get his car back? Id love to make one of the solstice meets if they are ever revived? any new news on him?
-
Maybe that's the only way anyone will ever see him again. He'll be like the Great Pumpkin rising out of the pumpkin patch, except at midnight on the solstice he'll rise out of his field of AMC's :rotfl:
-
Its the Great Red Eagle Charlie Brown!!!
-
*Looks in paper bag*
I got a gremlin
-
Ah, I see you too are a man of quality! :rotfl: :rotfl: