AMC Eagle Den Forum
General => Cone of Confusion => Topic started by: kajsdf on December 31, 2010, 12:07:00 AM
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just picked up my eagle today and went to wal mart to get the oil changed (blizzard coming up in sd and no garage to work in :/)
after a short eagle conversation, the guy took the vin/mileage etc and then came back and asked, "this might be a dumb question...but does that have an internal hood release?" even though i checked under the hood, i hadn't realized my knob was broken off...i thought it was funny, but it's definitely 'nest humor with the common knob breakage...
after wandering around wal mart i went to pick up the car, and the cashier grabbed the papers and keys and started to ring something up, then paused, looked confused, and said..."actually, we couldn't change the oil...we don't stock the oil filter..."
the joys of having an older car :P
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Must not be a very well stocked or walmart. I know the walmarts around here all have the oil filter for the Eagle. Either that or it is a case of where it isn't in the computer it doesn't exist.
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walmart's computer system is screwy..my brother spent the last several years in the shop at one locally. he ran into tons if issues with cars not existing in the system, wrong filter numbers, or just silly things that make no sense.....and if the computer doesnt just give them the answers, most employees are totally lost. according to their system all eagles only had 4 cyls, nothing else is ever listed. gotta love the evil empire, haha
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Got my oil changed in O'Fallon Illinois before heading home to Mississippi just after I got her.
When I picked it up, the service writer told me they had to go to O'Reilly's to get the filter,
but that they weren't going to charge me for the filter. Told me it's a Fram PH25 and to
bring one with me next time.
Then, after I got home, went to NAPA & bought a filter - they didn't carry FRAM so they
x-referenced to a NAPA #; which turned out to be incorrect.
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wow, if i didn't really love amc s i wouldn't drive them. i'm sure that goes for all of us here.
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Walmart even had trouble copying the key to the Eagle when I first got it. They could not figure out what brand it was. Luckily the locksmith that I know carries a number of AMC blanks. They have nearly everything.
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haha, i forgot about the key thing too -- tried to make copies of the keys. the ignition is on a gm key and the doors is on the original amc key,...guess which one they had in stock??
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How could you not have a PH25 in stock? ??? It's one of the more universal filters. I think it fits nearly every American car built before 1980.
I believe the following cross-reference for pre-87 engines: PH3675, PH11, PH3506, PH3429.
87 Metric filter, and late 4.0 engines: PH3985
The early 4.0 uses a 3/4 thread instead of 13/16.
I don't know how they physically fit in the engine compartment, but I would imagine they work in a pinch. AMC used all of them at one time or another with the 258.
Oil is one of the things I'm a little picky about... I don't use Fram filters (but the numbers are useful, because everyone references them) and I change my own.
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I change my own oil all the time on the Eagle. No place around here, except a mechanic will touch it. Kind of funny. I change the oil in the Saturn and Caravan too. I had gone to a Valvoline instant oil change place, but they stripped the plug on the Hyundai, so I quit going there. I found another place that was nice and only $10 more than I can do it myself for synthetic, but I am not going there anymore because they changed their prices and charged me $20 for a $6 cartridge oil filter. They didn't tell me about the charge until after they already started. Looks like I will be using Kenny's shed from now on.
For other fluid changes I have a transmission guy who knows my Eagle's transmission inside and out. He used to own an Eagle wagon. I also have a mobile mechanic who charges $25-$35 for transmission, coolant and power steering flushes.
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I also couldn't get a filter at Walmart. Both when I lived in CO and here in TN. I change my own oil too. It's not for cost savings, but to keep some kid who shouldn't have a wrench in his hand from changing my oil. I've only had my oil changed by someone else a handful of times and two of those times had problems. I had a diesel van and went to a Walmart because I was busy and it was way overdue for a change. They came and got me and said they ran into a problem. When they took the filter off they wound up with a washer a spring in their hand. I had to go down in the pit and put it back together. Another time at a quick lube place, same van, I decided to check the oil the next day just to make sure they put enough in since it took a lot more oil than normal vehicles. When I pulled the dipstick it was way past the full. I looked at my invoice and they put 5 more quarts than it was supposed to have. :o I came across some info that the Advance Auto Parts had the K&N HP2003 on clearance for $1.99. I got the last 7 in my area than called my brother in FL and told him to get me a few. He calls back and says, "I got you 20". So I think I have a lifetime supply of K&N filters for my Eagle. ;D
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you can always set your engine up for a remote filter....the one I have sits on my fender just forward of the idler arm bracket, so you can just reach under the radiator and grab it, and not only is it SO easy to get the filter off, w/o crawling under the car or making a mess even, it also takes Motorcraft FL1A / Fram PH8A flter which is very common (used on previous generation Ford v8s)
there ought to be remote filters made to fit other filters, too....
this can be a real advantageous setup if you want to run an engine oil cooler, cause you have to set up the plumbing anyway.... plus well designed block-to-AN adapters (where you actually remove the original filter adapter rather than screw another adpapter onto it) will flow much better than the typical OEM filter adapter....Bulltear adapter for amc v8 is a good ex of what I mean
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walmart does carry the smaller filter a PH3675 and according to them that is the correct filter for the eagle (their stupid touch screen filter thing that hardly ever works/is visible, right beside the book on a chain that is folded and tore to shreads). that filter is also used on the Chrysler 3.3 liter V6
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NAPA number ends in '258', which kinda handy. Their website says 1258 but IIRC there were 5 numerals in the ones I've been getting
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Stay away from FRAM. Go to NAPA, or WIX oil filters. They are constructed better.
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you can always set your engine up for a remote filter....the one I have sits on my fender just forward of the idler arm bracket, so you can just reach under the radiator and grab it, and not only is it SO easy to get the filter off, w/o crawling under the car or making a mess even, it also takes Motorcraft FL1A / Fram PH8A flter which is very common (used on previous generation Ford v8s)
there ought to be remote filters made to fit other filters, too....
this can be a real advantageous setup if you want to run an engine oil cooler, cause you have to set up the plumbing anyway.... plus well designed block-to-AN adapters (where you actually remove the original filter adapter rather than screw another adpapter onto it) will flow much better than the typical OEM filter adapter....Bulltear adapter for amc v8 is a good ex of what I mean
Where did you find your remote filter kit?
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Summit, Jegs, Amazon, JC Whitney and even your local parts store carries them. http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/Trans-Dapt-Performance-Products/Product-Line/Trans-Dapt-Performance-Remote-Oil-Filter-Relocation-Kits/
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Walmart does have the filters. They always look on the computer. the eagle is not likley on the computer but in a book for older cars they have under the counter right under or beside the register. I have been to walmart in two different states that said they did not have the filters. The walmart where i live always pulled out the book so when I went to the other walmarts, they said they didnt have the filter, I said "look in the book under the register. With a puzzled look on their face, they find the book and the correct filter number.
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I just go to Autozone or some other parts store, I always use Bosch filters and Royal Purple. Makes for a painfully expensive oil change but lasts 5k miles and bosch filters are always in stock for the 4.2.
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Walmart does have the filters. They always look on the computer. the eagle is not likley on the computer but in a book for older cars they have under the counter right under or beside the register. I have been to walmart in two different states that said they did not have the filters. The walmart where i live always pulled out the book so when I went to the other walmarts, they said they didnt have the filter, I said "look in the book under the register. With a puzzled look on their face, they find the book and the correct filter number.
I don't ask, I look for the filter number and still couldn't find it.
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NAPA number ends in '258', which kinda handy. Their website says 1258 but IIRC there were 5 numerals in the ones I've been getting
I think the NAPA number is 51258. : )
Actually, it's 21258. That's their regular filter. The good 'Gold' one is 1258.
Update: it used to be 51258 but they changed there numbering a bit. I bought 2 today and someone had overwritten the stamped '5' with a '2' in feltpen.
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Walmart does have the filters. They always look on the computer. the eagle is not likley on the computer but in a book for older cars they have under the counter right under or beside the register. I have been to walmart in two different states that said they did not have the filters. The walmart where i live always pulled out the book so when I went to the other walmarts, they said they didnt have the filter, I said "look in the book under the register. With a puzzled look on their face, they find the book and the correct filter number.
I don't ask, I look for the filter number and still couldn't find it.
Thats the problem. ASK!!. It is not in the little computer thing in the filter department or in the book in the filter department. They have a special book under the register, different than what they have for the customers.
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I don't ASK. I go with the filter number and look on the shelf. I don't need to look it up. I don't ask for help at Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. It's a waste of time. I go to the auto parts stores with the part number. I don't have them look it up on their computer. It's frustrating watching them try to figure stuff out. I've had to show employees at two different times how to check a starter and an alternator on the tester.
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Stay away from FRAM. Go to NAPA, or WIX oil filters. They are constructed better.
X2 on the stay away from fram. Without an oil guage on most Ealges most would never know why not to stay away from fram. When I had a 77 buick skylark oddfire v6 with 45000km(no oil guage) I had bought a 12 case of fram filters. I used them for regular 5000km oil changes. That engine died from having too low of oil pressure at 90000km. I still had two filters left from the case(12-10=2). These filters also fit my 1997 Safari AWD van with an oil guage so I figured that I could use them up without realizing that is what killed the buick engine.
After changing the oil with one of these filters the oil pressure at idle was 20 psi hot at idle in D instead of the 30psi hot at idle in D that it has today with a Hastings filter (200000km later). After the shop told me to get rid of the fram I was still skeptical thinking it was the pump so I took off the fram and put on my last one, same thing, 20 psi!, took a bus to get a different brand (Wix) and the pressure shot back to 30 psi hot idle in D. So with first hand experience of these garbage filters I would recomend never using them again.
Older Buick v6 engines have always had lower oil pressure and with a fram filter it made the oil pressure closer to zero hot at idle in D instead of the 9-13 psi that it should have been. Thats what killed the engine.
After trying different brands over the years since then I have concluded that (in no peticular order) Hastings, Wix, Autopar made by Wix, Mopar, K&N, AC Delco, Ford motorsport, and Penzoil are the brands of choice according to my oil pressure readings. I had a purolator and a Canadian Tire one read too low as well.
Max.
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Our local Wal-Mart don't carry the Fram #25 filter either, and the little computer don't list anything else either that fits the Eagle. They don't either have the worn out book out on the sales floor for customers. A few years back I did ask them about checking to see if any other filter they had would fit my Eagle, and they just looked on their computer at the counter, and said NO. But now after reading above that they also have a book under the counter, I will have to look to see what they also list for it. As in the last year I have gotten to know several of the TLE (Tires & Lube Express) Employees, as my Co-workers. Yes, a year ago I started as a Super Center Electronics Sales Associate, but I do assist customers all over the store. So it would be nice if I could get some filters at Wal-Mart, as we get a 10% discount on products there, and NAPA prices seem to be going up all the time. Yeah, for what they pay at Wal-Mart, I can see why some employees don't like to do anymore then they have to in finding oil filter numbers. Like that joke, we get paid "Weekly" there, but more like "WEAKLY"!
I bet a few of you are asking, Have I ever let my Wal-mart coworkers ever change the oil in any of my AMC cars? The answer is: NO, they don't carry the filter, so they say they can't. Ha ha. But I am sure they would do a good job, as there is always a long line of customers there getting work done. But I am just "Picky" of who I let work on my Amc cars, if I can't do the work myself, I only trust a few others to do the job. That way I don't get a worker asking, whats a Amc!
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Napa is a better filter by far than FRAM.
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Wix also makes the filters for Parts America.
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Stay away from FRAM. Go to NAPA, or WIX oil filters. They are constructed better.
After changing the oil with one of these filters the oil pressure at idle was 20 psi hot at idle in D instead of the 30psi hot at idle in D that it has today with a Hastings filter (200000km later). After the shop told me to get rid of the fram I was still skeptical thinking it was the pump so I took off the fram and put on my last one, same thing, 20 psi!, took a bus to get a different brand (Wix) and the pressure shot back to 30 psi hot idle in D. So with first hand experience of these garbage filters I would recomend never using them again.
Older Buick v6 engines have always had lower oil pressure and with a fram filter it made the oil pressure closer to zero hot at idle in D instead of the 9-13 psi that it should have been. Thats what killed the engine.
Does the low pressure indicate a filter that is too restrictive or one that is too free-flowing? Would depend on where the gauge gets it's reading from in the oil circuit - before the filter or after. ???
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Stay away from FRAM. Go to NAPA, or WIX oil filters. They are constructed better.
After changing the oil with one of these filters the oil pressure at idle was 20 psi hot at idle in D instead of the 30psi hot at idle in D that it has today with a Hastings filter (200000km later). After the shop told me to get rid of the fram I was still skeptical thinking it was the pump so I took off the fram and put on my last one, same thing, 20 psi!, took a bus to get a different brand (Wix) and the pressure shot back to 30 psi hot idle in D. So with first hand experience of these garbage filters I would recomend never using them again.
Older Buick v6 engines have always had lower oil pressure and with a fram filter it made the oil pressure closer to zero hot at idle in D instead of the 9-13 psi that it should have been. Thats what killed the engine.
Does the low pressure indicate a filter that is too restrictive or one that is too free-flowing? Would depend on where the gauge gets it's reading from in the oil circuit - before the filter or after. ???
If you have high oil pressure after the filter you need to go to a thinner oil. More pressure= less flow.
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I learned the hard way to stay away from fram. I have a 99 Dodge with the cummins and used fram oil filter on it. Blew the engine with less than 20k miles on it. Had to argue with Dodge but they finally agreed to replace it under warranty. Apparently they knew there was an issue with fram filters but failed to warn me. They said the filters were swelling shut and closing off oil circulation. Ended up throwing a rod and blowing the turbo. That was the last time I used fram oil filters.
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I learned the hard way to stay away from fram. I have a 99 Dodge with the cummins and used fram oil filter on it. Blew the engine with less than 20k miles on it. Had to argue with Dodge but they finally agreed to replace it under warranty. Apparently they knew there was an issue with fram filters but failed to warn me. They said the filters were swelling shut and closing off oil circulation. Ended up throwing a rod and blowing the turbo. That was the last time I used fram oil filters.
More fuel for your fire: Type fram oil filter in the search on youtube. You will never use a fram filter again.
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What amazes me is that Fram continues to advertise their filters as being the best and putting them through "rigorous testing"... They really should be shut down for false advertising.
What's even worse is the cars I've seen with Frams on them, including a hemi Cuda, a 67 Shelby Cobra Mustang, and more. People buy the budget filter thinking it will provide good protection when really the common auto parts store brand filters are still better and lower price in some cases.
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Exactly 2x what you said!
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I didn't know all this about Fram. I'll be more careful when getting filters from now on.
Walmart here didn't have my filter listed right either, in the book (pinned next to the filters) or on the computer.
Fram used to be a good filter. But now they are just selling the name, not the quality.
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Missed this topic before...
guys, youre scaring the :censored: out of me !
Just changed oil and filter, guess what ? Yes, Fram PH5 filter. :banghead:
And, for added "safety", Fram AirHog filter for my air.
While the air is no big worry, you made me seriously think about throwing away the oil one.
But... what to buy ? And can I simply swap filters without waiting for next oil change ? With a cold engine, I guess all the oil drops down in the pan, below the filter level, so it could be done...
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Missed this topic before...
guys, youre scaring the :censored: out of me !
Just changed oil and filter, guess what ? Yes, Fram PH5 filter. :banghead:
And, for added "safety", Fram AirHog filter for my air.
I'm in the same boat as you, LG, I just did the same thing (I also have a Fram - Air Hog in my other DD). both cars (the Grand Am and the Eagle) have Fram oil filters in them.
That's just great...
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I can second this. However not as bad as youtube makes it out. I cut my filters open to see what's going on.. I gave up on fram years back..
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Well, I just watched a whole bunch of videos, and I didn't realize how poor Fram's quality is. That's the last fram filter I buy.
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I run K&N oil filters.
If you want something cheaper that's great too, use a WIX.
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I run K&N oil filters.
If you want something cheaper that's great too, use a WIX.
Wix (NAPA) is my choice now that I have seen the Youtube videos.
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The motorcraft looked pretty good also.
Sorry we hi-jacked this thread...
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What I don't get is, if Fram is of such vastly inferior quality (and the evidence is obviously there to prove it), how do they stay in business? Not only that, but retain such a large market share as well?
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What I don't get is, if Fram is of such vastly inferior quality (and the evidence is obviously there to prove it), how do they stay in business? Not only that, but retain such a large market share as well?
It's all about advertising.
Look at infomercials... Half of their products are garbage, but look how many people buy them without doing research?
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What I don't get is, if Fram is of such vastly inferior quality (and the evidence is obviously there to prove it), how do they stay in business? Not only that, but retain such a large market share as well?
Think of it this way, out of the millions of fram filters sold, only a handful in comparison could cause damage to an engine, any filter can fail. Many engines have a bypass for just this reason, so even if the filter does fail, the engine will not starve itself to death. Being an oem type guy, I like to use the mopar filters on my heep, and I run ACDelco on both the eagle, and my malibu. I've never run a fram filter, mainly because the orange always contrasted with the color of my engines :rotfl:. My dad had been using them for years with no issues, he has since switched to Delco though ::), except on the old falcon, which still gets a fram, and always has.
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I've been running Fram filters in my vehicles about half the time, with no problems... yet. I have to wonder if I've just been lucky so far.
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You and me both, Dean.
I've been lucky so far, but I'm not buying another fram filter ever again.
The reason Fram does so well is exactly what Sunny said - Go to Canadian Tire, or Auto value, or all the other stores - What is the bulk of filters being sold - Fram.
It's the exact same as Cat food. (bad comparison, I know, but it's similar)
What do all (most) vet clinics stock? Medi-cal cat food. Did you know that the vets get PAID to stock this crap, and people walking in think, "Hey, if the vet sells it, it must be good!" Ya well it's total crap. Corn, wheat, etc. Cats can't digest corn or wheat....
Anyways the point is, We are fooled by these turds in buying what they say is good, and it's all crap.
I'm heading over to any auto parts store, getting anything but fram (probably motorcraft) and changing my filters right now...
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Missed this topic before...
guys, youre scaring the :censored: out of me !
Just changed oil and filter, guess what ? Yes, Fram PH5 filter. :banghead:
And, for added "safety", Fram AirHog filter for my air.
While the air is no big worry, you made me seriously think about throwing away the oil one.
But... what to buy ? And can I simply swap filters without waiting for next oil change ? With a cold engine, I guess all the oil drops down in the pan, below the filter level, so it could be done...
who knows, all I know is I have used Fram oil filters for over 20+ years , change my oil every 3-4,000 miles never had an issue , in my Camry, my 2 nissan trucks, my AMX, or the eagles or Caddy.......for what it is worth.
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And if I could add , most of them went over 200,000 miles except for the Caddy which has 120,000 on it now , and my AMX wich is around 105,000.I did watch the videos, is kinda scary, but I could make a scary video against anything just as well.
I do get WIX mostly now, because I moved and the parts store carrys that brand.I believe if your changing your oil regularly as you should, there shouldn't be any issues....
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What turned me off of fram was the rubber gasket thing internal whatever its called is loose. Again I cut filters open on a change. Or whenever I change anyones car oil. If its fram that gasket is loose.
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I didn't know all this about Fram. I'll be more careful when getting filters from now on.
Walmart here didn't have my filter listed right either, in the book (pinned next to the filters) or on the computer.
Fram used to be a good filter. But now they are just selling the name, not the quality.
I've been told they used to be good, until they started using Honeywell to build them.
Bosch, K&N, STP all carry our filters. Remember, these engines were in the CJs and YJs, which even now are far more common, and I'm quite sure they use the same thread size and pitch. Wal-Mart computers and most of their auto staff know $%* about cars, especially an Eagle, in MOST cases. If you have time, consider changing your own oil for the same price. Then, you know it's you turning the wrench instead of someone who may have never seen an Eagle their entire life...
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The way I see it, there are some pretty obvious issues with frams that are in pretty important aspects of filter construction, including pleats. One video showed a gap in the pleating of one brand new fram... Oil and filter are among the most important decisions to make with owning a car, and to sacrifice quality on the system that in failing would cause immediate ruination of the engine in severe cases, to save 100 bucks over the life of the engine is not worth it. It's not that much different from rebuilding an engine and reusing bearings and rings... yes, they could hold up if replaced shortly before rebuild, but its a risk that could obviously greatly shorten engine lifespan to save the 100 bucks. that's just my opinion though.... And I'm off my soapbox:P
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I haven't had anyone else change my oil in over 20 years. I do it.
I may have not known that Fram filters became crap ('cause they used to be good) because I haven't kept up, but that doesn't mean I don't do my own oil changes.
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I haven't had anyone else change my oil in over 20 years. I do it.
I may have not known that Fram filters became crap ('cause they used to be good) because I haven't kept up, but that doesn't mean I don't do my own oil changes.
The changing oil thing was a general message, though I assumed incorrectly taht you took yours in to wal-mart >_<
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The changing oil thing was a general message, though I assumed incorrectly taht you took yours in to wal-mart >_<
I suppose it might have seemed like that's what I mean, but... OMG, man never.
When I was about 18 (about 25 years ago) a good friend went to a chain shop to get his oil changed, and they left the oil plug out, and wrecked his motor - His was totally peev'd off. After that, I swore I'd never let anyone change my oil.
Now if it was a brand new car, and it was part of my warranty for them to change it, then that's different.